More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[Annie]

5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

On top of that I've come down with covid - it's finally caught up with me after two-and-a-half years,

Thinking of you and wishing you well Stephen.  I hope you have an easier ride with COVID than I have.

[Nick Lawson]

Quote

No. 2 Son is supposed to go back to Oxford today with all his stuff...

He's not taking his desk is he?! The rotter!

Quote

At least the cat is now stalking in the direction of my lap

Ah, but apparently they come and sit on you when you're about to die. 😉
Get well soon.

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, Nick Lawson said:

He's not taking his desk is he?! The rotter!

 

No, but it's not really a suitable one for modelling at - his room doesn't have such good light. And he's only gone for nine weeks at a time.

 

9 minutes ago, Nick Lawson said:

Ah, but apparently they come and sit on you when you're about to die. 😉

 

Thank you for your encouraging remark.

[Simond]

Up to Padd today, MissD returning to Uni, MasterD & GF joined us for lunch.  Unfortunate mis-booking by MrsD resulted in a less-than-average meal, but the company was good.  

 

MissD quite encouraged by my suggestion that a large silicone dog feeding mat might find its way onto her bedroom desk, but only when I added that it was likely to be joined by an Elegoo resin printer.  
 

She is now researching alternatives to ensure I don’t make a bad purchase decision.  Excellent to be able to delegate such matters to a competent advisor.

[Andy Hayter]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

No, but it's not really a suitable one for modelling at - his room doesn't have such good light. And he's only gone for nine weeks at a time.

 

 

 

 

Should have sent him to a decent Uni where they would keep him employed for 10 weeks per trimester or more rather than the Oxbridge part timers.  😼

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

Should have sent him 

 

You are under a delusion if you think there was any parental choice involved.

 

However, we may have influenced his choice of college, which is the one both of us were at - chiefly because we stressed its reputation for a lively musical life, music being his subject.

[Compound2632]

Could do with one of these:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of MRSC item 64258.]

 

Croaking away, raging sore throat. Thank you all for your "Friendly / Supportive" responses, and @Annie for her "Like"!

[Compound2632]

Railway modellers are a morbid lot, aren't they? There's not, so far as I'm aware, a kit for any Midland invalid saloon, but there is for this dinky little vehicle, that I've seen on several layouts:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of MRSC item 64198.]

 

[phil_sutters]

34 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Railway modellers are a morbid lot, aren't they? There's not, so far as I'm aware, a kit for any Midland invalid saloon, but there is for this dinky little vehicle, that I've seen on several layouts:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of MRSC item 64198.]

 

Or you could chop some Triang clerestorys as I did 50+ years ago. These were dragged out of their storage boxes for an impromptu photo shoot a couple of years ago and weren't spruced up for the occasion.

[jamie92208]

I have a 7mm kit on standby if necessary.  Just give me plenty of warning.

 

Jamie

[phil_sutters]

3 hours ago, phil_sutters said:

Or you could chop some Triang clerestorys as I did 50+ years ago. These were dragged out of their storage boxes for an impromptu photo shoot a couple of years ago and weren't spruced up for the occasion.

...and the S&D had one or more rather nice 6-wheeled saloons - which I thought was a clerestory hack too far.

[Compound2632]

That saloon illustrates the fascination, to me, of S&DJR rolling stock - the way Higbridge seems to have played variations on Midland standard designs. Garner's Register gives a build date of 1886 for Saloon No. 6. Compare the equivalent pukka Midland vehicle, family carriage of 1883:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of MRSC item 64242.]

 

This is the other side, with lavatory at the right-hand end. Both carriages are 32 ft long over end panels. The S&DJR vehicle has:

• droplights in the luggage compartment doors
• narrower servant's compartment - the MR vehicle has standard third class compartment dimensions
• non-standard wide quarterlights to either side of the next droplight
• panel between the longer saloon windows but no panel between them and the door
• fixed light rather than droplight for the lavatory window
• ventilators in all eves panels

The only instance I know of where a S&DJR carriage design was identical to a Midland design is the thirds built by Oldbury and Cravens, which are identical to Midland D493. Even there, the Cravens order included five brake thirds the brake end of which was unlike any Midland brake end.

 

I think it may be relevant that the Midland Locomotive Department was responsible for all aspects of S&DJR rolling stock, with the Carriage & Wagon Department having no direct involvement, at least until the Derby-built Road Vans of 1896, which were designed in the C&W Drawing Office. 

 

 

 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, jamie92208 said:

I have a 7mm kit on standby if necessary.  Just give me plenty of warning.

 

I'm not dead yet!

Edited October 3, 2022 by Compound2632

[phil_sutters]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

That saloon illustrates the fascination, to me, of S&DJR rolling stock - the way Higbridge seems to have played variations on Midland standard designs. Garner's Register gives a build date of 1886 for Saloon No. 6. Compare the equivalent pukka Midland vehicle, family carriage of 1883:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of MRSC item 64242.]

 

This is the other side, with lavatory at the right-hand end. Both carriages are 32 ft long over end panels. The S&DJR vehicle has:

• droplights in the luggage compartment doors
• narrower servant's compartment - the MR vehicle has standard third class compartment dimensions
• non-standard wide quarterlights to either side of the next droplight
• panel between the longer saloon windows but no panel between them and the door
• fixed light rather than droplight for the lavatory window
• ventilators in all eves panels

The only instance I know of where a S&DJR carriage design was identical to a Midland design is the thirds built by Oldbury and Cravens, which are identical to Midland D493. Even there, the Cravens order included five brake thirds the brake end of which was unlike any Midland brake end.

 

I think it may be relevant that the Midland Locomotive Department was responsible for all aspects of S&DJR rolling stock, with the Carriage & Wagon Department having no direct involvement, at least until the Derby-built Road Vans of 1896, which were designed in the C&W Drawing Office. 

 

 

 

Perhaps the luggage compartment was used for the family's dogs and/or the 'outside' staff, who couldn't mix with the 'indoors' staff. I like the 'To be returned to Bath' notice. Where-else would one dream of sending it to?

[MarcD]

Going back to the shape of slates and where they came from. As some people might havw seen I'm in the process building Tywyn Wharf. In the process of going through all my books on the Talyllyn looking at every photo containing slates. Well they come in all shapes and sizes and they all look like the have been stacked up in wharf yard.

Marc 

[kitpw]

9 minutes ago, MarcD said:

Going back to the shape of slates and where they came from

...my email to Delabole elicited this response:  "Delabole Roof Slates are shouldered  by tradition". 

 

A glossary of 'Slate & Stone Roofing' from Historic England (http://www.stoneroof.org.uk/historic/Historic_Roofs/Publications_files/Glossary v3 5-16.pdf )

says this (not all of which can I understand):

"Shoulder, shouldering
1 the absence or deliberate removal of the top
(as laid) corners of stone slates. The technique
increases the amount of stone which can be used
for roofing, makes it easier for uneven or twisted
slates to lie flat and reduces the roof loading.
2 the top corners of stone slates. Excessive
shouldering can result in a leaking roof."

 

This SPAB (Society for the Preservation of Ancient Buildings) publication is worth reading if interested in Welsh slating - https://www.spab.org.uk/sites/default/files/SPAB Technical Advice Note_Slate and Stone Roofing in Wales and the Marches_0.pdf.

 

 

 

[kitpw]

I think in present circumstances, 'GWR' can be rendered as 'Get Well Rapidly'...

 

 

 

 

 

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, kitpw said:

I think in present circumstances, 'GWR' can be rendered as 'Get Well Rapidly'...

 

Better than "Groggy & Knackered Entirely".

 

(Sorry, that's the best I could manage on the spur of the moment.)

[corneliuslundie]

Surely the instructions are Must Rest.

Jonathan

[sir douglas]

some welsh slate sizes

[Compound2632]

14 minutes ago, sir douglas said:

some welsh slate sizes

 

The fascinating SPAB document to which @kitpw linked states "Orders for new slates should not ask for specific sizes. The correct way is to specify the longest and shortest and allow the quarry to produce a natural mix of sizes. It is the slater’s job to produce an effective roof from the mix supplied." [Caption to fig. 17]. 

 

So if I suppose that my Cambrian wagon-load of Aberlleffenni slate is for a single job - some public building, perhaps, or a terrace of villa-type residences - it should contain a suitable mix of sizes.

[kitpw]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

it should contain a suitable mix of sizes.

Whilst I have great respect for SPAB and have read and learned much from their papers on various topics, on the matter of slate sizes - random or "sized" - I think they are presenting a rather historic view on this.  The first few paragraphs of this paper http://www.slateroof.co.uk/Expansion_6.html  explains General Warburton's sizing system and whimsical naming - duchesses, countesses etc (as @sir douglas's list above). 

 

This article is less specific but generally agrees on sizing: https://www.cornwall.gov.uk/media/pv0mhvpi/heritage-roofing-advice.pdf.  Whilst it's entirely focussed on slating in Camelford, Cornwall it has this to say at para 4.4: "The 19th century saw regularized production of roofing slate. Huge quantities were produced in Wales and the Cornish producers had to follow the trend as well. Regular sizes saved labour time on site and required much less skill than random slating; but there was much more wastage  and the end result lacked the charm of the older methods.". 

 

....so bung a few duchesses in your Cambrian wagon, add a few countesses and perhaps a marchioness or two and make the rest as (unshouldered) 12 x 6s....oh, and don''t forget to load General Warburton as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jamie92208]

A short while ago the widow of a friend in our model railway group gave me some 7mm wagons.   One of them is a Parkside NBR jubilee wagon that is being donated to the NBR layout under construction at my club in Wakefield, across the channel.   Another turned out to be a Three Aitch low side wagon.

I know that the Three Aitch cattle wagon is based on the LTSR medium but can anyone ID what was the prototype  for this wagon.  Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Jamie

 

 

[41516]

Are you aware that some of the 7mm 3H wagons are stretched to fit their generic 9ft chassis?  It can cause all kinds of deviations from the prototype, beyond being a little looser in general accuracy to begin with.

 

Example  - 3H at top, Slaters below.

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, 41516 said:

Example  - 3H at top

 

Ugh. Whoever made the masters for 3H had clearly only ever seen a D357 in a poor photo from a long way away. What's the sticky down bit and where's the bottom framing?