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More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

Compound2632
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Compound2632

Compound2632

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Just now, MarcD said:

The GWR had 6 wheel transporter wagons that 6 NG wagons were end loaded. I believe that they start life as coaches. Other than that I don't have very much info on them.

 

Again, that would only be as far as the port, so no good for Birmingham! Curiously, the account of D7 in LNWR Wagons Vol. 1 says that the initial idea had been a 6-wheeler for carrying six narrow-gauge wagons; this was drawn up but not built. It sounds as if weight may have been an issue since the D7 wagons, built in 1885, were of the unusually high capacity (for the LNWR at this date) of 10 tons, each loaded narrow-gauge wagon weighing about 3 tons. So six would come in at 18 tons, i.e, 6 tons per axle rather than 4½ tons per axle on the D7 wagons.

 

That calculation makes me doubt that the Great Western was using old carriage underframes, unless the running gear had been completely renewed with higher-capacity bearing springs, axleboxes and journals, and wheelsets.

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kitpw

kitpw

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37 minutes ago, WFPettigrew said:

It's a shame that these don't feature the correct top of the slate as that is so distinctive.

I'm puzzled (not unusual) about why some batches of slates have cut corners and some don't.  Illustrations on the web show, in detail, how slates should be fixed to obtain a workable head lap, side lap etc: some of these guides show cut corners, some don't.  I've asked the question before - but not on RMweb - and apart from hoping that the origin of the expression "cutting corners" may come from the stone roofing trade (doubtful), I've had quite a few different answers - "it's to reduce weight", "it's to stop the slate cracking in high winds": the most convincing was "well that's how they came from the quarry".  Any ideas?  In the meantime, I'm using fully rectangular slates (7mm scale, shellac coated thin card) on a signal box roof and, using the same DXF file on the Silhouette, producing extra "sheets" for wagon loads - no cutting corners!

 

 

 

 

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airnimal

airnimal

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I have in my memory bank a drawing of a GWR slate transporter wagon with a photograph by Mike Lloyd built from a old 6 wheel coach underframe in a Model Railway Constructer in the 60's. Unfortunately all my old magazines are in the loft hiding behind vast amount of junk. 

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cctransuk

cctransuk

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5 minutes ago, airnimal said:

I have in my memory bank a drawing of a GWR slate transporter wagon with a photograph by Mike Lloyd built from a old 6 wheel coach underframe in a Model Railway Constructer in the 60's. Unfortunately all my old magazines are in the loft hiding behind vast amount of junk. 

 

Quite correct - I'll look up the article in my database ASAP.

 

CJI.

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airnimal

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When the daughter's all came to stay the idear was to clear the loft of all the junk that they didn't take with them when they left home. Unfortunately with all the mayhem associated with family visits I didn't get in the loft to reveal my treasure trove of goodies. 

 

Anyway Sidney Leleux has come up trumps with 1966 pages 115 / 149. 

20220928_095810.jpg

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corneliuslundie

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The Cambrian had many 2-plank wagons, both fixed and drop side, probably more fixed side. But the fixed side ones did not have side doors (at least in the three drawings I have), which would have made loading and unloading slates rather hard work. Loading them against the ends in a drop-side wagon would be much easier, but I suppose then rough shunting might be more likely to cause breakages.

I am not sure where those GWR transporter wagons would have been used. Anything for the two North Wales ports would have gone direct rom the quarries, and traffic to Portmadoc via the Festiniog - and anything to the LNWR ports in LNWR wagons. Were they in fact used after the conversion of the Festiniog & Blaenau to transport slate wagons to Blaenau for trans-shipment? The Mike Lloyd drawing in the WRRC collection is of wagon No. 25020, 25 ft 6 in. over headstocks, 16 ft wheelbase, 4 wheels. It doesn't look like re-use of a carriage underframe. Perhaps there is a second drawing.

Jonathan

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billbedford

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12 hours ago, kitpw said:

I'm puzzled (not unusual) about why some batches of slates have cut corners and some don't.  Illustrations on the web show, in detail, how slates should be fixed to obtain a workable head lap, side lap etc: some of these guides show cut corners, some don't. 

 

I can confirm that the Balachulish slates that I repaired on a house I used to live in did not have cut corners, so presumably different quarries had different practises. 

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WFPettigrew

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

OK so I need to know whether or not the Corris quarries cut corners!

According to the recent serialised article in the last couple of editions of MRJ, the Corris quarries were into other uses for slate (such as gravestones, snooker tables!) as much as they produced roofing materials.   However there were many quarries served by the Corris Railway, so they may have had varying priorities.  Also feeding the Cambrian was the Talyllyn whose sole quarry was, according to that article, wholly devoted to roofing slate. 

 

(But I don't know whether TR souced slate had shouldered top edges either!)

 

All the best

 

Neil 

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kitpw

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4 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

OK so I need to know whether or not the Corris quarries cut corners!

The only quarry I've come across which provides some certainty is Delabole:

"Delabole Roofing Slates are hand-made with dressed edges and “shouldered” in the time honoured Delabole way in a wide range of:
-Sized Slates
-Traditional Randoms
-Peggies / Scantle Slate"
http://www.delaboleslate.co.uk/roofing-slate.asp

Shouldered slates were commonplace in Scottish practice but were usually set on sarking, not battens, and single head nailed, not double centre nailed.  The top courses at the ridge of slate roofs should be shouldered to allow nailing but this doesn't really account for whole loads of shouldered slates.  Perhaps some of both would be the answer for Corris but then again, this moth eaten collection might suggest otherwise: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-stack-of-welsh-slate-roof-tiles-86378940.html but I surely wouldn't want to model them.

 

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MarcD

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I saw a demo of slate manufacturing at the Welsh national slate museum at llanberis and they were rectangular in shape. I think those carried on the talyllyn were the same shape, but don't hold me to that.

If anyone is in llanberis the museum is worth a visit. And it's free.

Marc 

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Steamport Southport

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On 28/09/2022 at 10:05, airnimal said:

When the daughter's all came to stay the idear was to clear the loft of all the junk that they didn't take with them when they left home. Unfortunately with all the mayhem associated with family visits I didn't get in the loft to reveal my treasure trove of goodies. 

 

Anyway Sidney Leleux has come up trumps with 1966 pages 115 / 149. 

20220928_095810.jpg

 

And a more up to date version. Does have a few omissions and errors, but is a list of all the drawings in MRC, RM and MRN/MR/YMR from post war to 1985. Unfortunately doesn't list the PO wagon drawings.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Model-Railway-Constructor-Special-Reference/dp/0711015252/ref=sr_1_3?crid=212TC3YZJUDD3&keywords=model+railway+constructor+special&qid=1664480801&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIyLjA5IiwicXNhIjoiMC4wMCIsInFzcCI6IjAuMDAifQ%3D%3D&rnid=1642204031&s=books&sprefix=model+railway+constructor+special%2Caps%2C119&sr=1-3

 

Only a few drawings but is handy and usually cheap as chips.

 

 

Jason

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MikeOxon

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On 29/09/2022 at 11:52, kitpw said:

this moth eaten collection might suggest otherwise: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-stack-of-welsh-slate-roof-tiles-86378940.html but I surely wouldn't want to model them.

I notice that the photo is captioned as taken at Tal-y-Llyn lake, Snowdonia National Park, Gwynedd, North Wales.  Does this suggest that slates from here were shouldered?

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kitpw

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33 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

Does this suggest that slates from here were shouldered?

...hard to say:  the ones illustrated are clearly salvage, probably from a local building and probably locally sourced in the first place so my guess would be that Talyllyn slates were (as from Delabole) shouldered.  I still haven't come across a convincing explanation as to why though.  This website https://www.roofconsult.co.uk/articles/fixslate.htm  shows shouldered slates for the under-course at the ridge to allow secure nailing of the top course itself but accounts for only a small proportion of the whole number needed for a roof.  Where all the ouptut of a quarry was shouldered, perhaps the reduction in weight for carriage was worth the extra cutting involved.

 

I have emailed Delabole to ask about shouldering!

 

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Steamport Southport

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On 30/09/2022 at 14:11, Tim Dubya said:

Personally I prefer those that pay UK tax and treat their employees fairly and with digity.  So have a gander for it here instead:

 

https://www.magazineexchange.co.uk

 

I've found loads of useful rags just by browsing.

 

 

 

 

I prefer retailers that actually sell the item I'm highlighting.

 

 

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Compound2632

Compound2632

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Sorry to report no progress on modelling for the last few days. I was nicely set up on No. 1 Son's desk but He's just returned from Durham at the end of his Masters and tenancy - all parties had been hoping he could stay in Durham but he hadn't been able to find any accommodation. Being no longer a student he can't have a room in a student house, because of the way council tax works.

 

On top of that I've come down with covid - it's finally caught up with me after two-and-a-half years, though I had a bout of flu followed by several weeks of a persistent cough in February 2020 which my wife reckons was covid avant la lettre. Now, flu-like symptoms, feeling lethargic.

 

No. 2 Son is supposed to go back to Oxford today with all his stuff...

 

And to cap it all, there's something iffy with our freeview signal so I can't with any confidence flump on the settee watching non-stop Big Bang Theory on E4. BBC channels are a bit more reliable but there's the risk of exposure to the PM...

 

Apologies for this tale of woe. At least the cat is now stalking in the direction of my lap so I had better stop!

 

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