More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

It's now working as I would expect but at lunchtime it was just a grey box with something like image  12345.jpg written inside which opened to a blank page with a miniscule blue square in the middle.

 

I think what's going on is that the Study Centre website was being slow to load images.

[WFPettigrew]

4 hours ago, airnimal said:

Could it be from the Furness Railway ? 

 

I did wonder, but no.  The FR did have two types of roof door vans dating back to about the 1870s - so would have fitted with the dating of this photo, and one type did have two panels either side of the door, but theirs had the doors inset, and each door had two vertical panels on them, with no horizontal rib.

 

See this heavy crop of a photo featuring one of the smaller ones (with a larger sibling alongside) - the original shows a rake of the FR roof door vans at the old papermill in Ulverston sometime after 1903.

 

 

All the best

 

Neil 

 

 

[Compound2632]

Following on from that "William Kirtley" covered goods wagon, here's something else that's caught my interest:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue image of MRSC 92223, Ian Howard Collection.]

 

The catalogue caption reads: "Gloucester, High Orchard branch, around 1905. A broadside view of 0-6-0T No. 1125A, its enginemen in the cab, coupled, bunker first, to coal wagons. Allocated to Gloucester, No. 1125A was normally out-stationed at Dursley. Here, it was shunting coal wagons on a trip from Gloucester shed back to Dursley. This engine was ex-Severn & Wye railway 'Sabrina'."

 

The engine has had footsteps added just ahead of the tank, and a handrail on the tank front, a piece of uglification (though no doubt very welcomed by the enginemen) that was added to tank engines from 1903. It was renumbered 1607 in November 1907 and moved to Burton in or by 1908 [S. Summerson, Midland Railway Locomotives Vol. 3 (Irwell Press, 2002) p. 193]. 

 

On the left of the engine is a very freshly-painted D299. But the real curiosity is the line of wagons behind the engine, which have evidently been out in the smoke for a good while. 

 

The one behind the D299 is a five-plank wagon; it looks a little deeper than the D299, say 3 ft, and has a raised end in the form of a continuous arc. It is labelled CO - presumably LOCO - and below that, in script, 8 Tons - possibly preceded by what might be the word Load or, since the visible letter doesn't have a noticeable ascender, To Carry - which is a bit of a hint. 

 

The wagon part-hidden by No. 1125A's bunker is dumb-buffered and is of a more antique construction, the corner plates not being full height, with a corner bracket plate at the top. It too is lettered LOCO but where the other wagon has the capacity, this one carries the number 05839. To its right is another dumb-buffer wagon with raised end.

 

I'm pretty sure these aren't Midland ex-PO wagons. I think they must be Great Western - as suggested by the italic style of capacity marking - or rather, wagons on hire to the Great Western, as suggested by the number beginning 0. 

 

I get easily confused by the geography of Gloucester's goods branches but the density of trackwork suggests that this must be the middle of High Orchard yard, with the Gloucester Wagon Co.'s works behind the photographer and Baker Street behind the sidings, the large buildings being perhaps the malthouses marked on the map: 

https://maps.nls.uk/view/109725538.

 

This is firmly Midland territory, with only a tenuous connection to the Great Western's dock branch on the west side of the canal. One would have thought that if loco coal wagons were being loaded from the canal, the Great Western's ones would have been loaded at a quay on the west side. In any case, they're presumably only going as far as the Great Western loco shed.

 

No. 1125A and No. 1126A, formerly S&Y 'Forrester', were at this time the Dursley branch engines. The implication of the caption seems to be that it is seen here foraging for loco coal to take back to Dursley. 

 

So, has anyone seen the like of these presumed Great Western hired loco coal wagons?

 

And are they red?

Edited 4 hours ago by Compound2632

[Compound2632]

Oh dear. I am being seriously distracted by photos from the Ian Howard collection recently added to the Midland Railway Study Centre website. Here's a charming view of S&DJR 0-4-4T No. 52 at Bournemouth West:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue image of MRSC 93536.]

 

The engine was the first of the Vulcan Foundry batch of four, delivered in December 1884, is siblings following the month. It is seen here bore reboilering in September 1902 - the replacement boiler, being of two rings rather than three, had the dome further forward [D. Bradley and D. Milton, Somerset and Dorset Locomotive History (David & Charles, 1973) pp. 78, 207]. (More uglification; as with the footsteps, R. Mountford Deeley is not to blame.) 

 

Anyway, 'edge of the negative':

 

 

[Compressed crop from high-res scan of MRSC 93536.]

 

Some typical LSWR opens and a couple of LNWR D1 one-plank opens - in themselves interesting at this location. But my main interest is Pinxton wagon No. 824. Dumb buffered, four-planked, with the top plank through, end door, corner straps rather than corner plate. I think the fixed end is raised in an arc. 

 

Pinxton Colliery was in the very heart of Midland territory but with a railway history pre-dating the Midland itself by a quarter of a century. There's an article in Turton's Sixth Collection, pp. 126-8. He says Pinxton coal was widely distributed including the south coast "where it was well known in Southampton and Portsmouth" - to which we can add, Bournemouth.

 

Turton has a couple of photos showing a later livery style but one, taken at Sileby c. 1920, showing a similar style to this Bournemouth wagon, although a more modern wagon, perhaps of 1890s vintage. From this it's clear that the lettering on the top plank reads EMPTY TO. The number, 390, is on the bottom plank at the left, rather than on the door, in conformity with the preference that seems to have become established shortly before the Great War (though noting the GW's switch of number from right to left  around 1893). The italic lettering on the bottom plank, one line on No. 824, is two lines on No. 390, where it might read

Collieries Ltd.

Nottingham

by analogy with the later lettering style:

[Embedded link to image of Bachmann 37-100 on Hattons' website.]

 

That model accurately represents the lettering style of No. 718 as illustrated in Turton's article, for all that it's a 12 ton RCH 1923 specification wagon rather than the prototype 10-ton wagon, built 1906. 

 

But the italic lettering on the bottom plank of No. 824 looks too long to be

Collieries Ltd. Nottingham.

 

No. 390 has shaded lettering, suggesting that it is grey, or possibly red, as one would also conclude for No. 824. If pushed, I'd plump for grey - I think red would look darker, even if well worn. Curiously, there is much later evidence for black-shaded lettering: a couple of photos, reprduced in Midland Railway Society Journal No. 83 (Winter 2023) of No. 1137, an RCH 1923 wagon, coaling the Royal Train engine at Carlisle Kingmoor in July 1947 by the extraordinary expedient of being dangled over the tender from the jib of Kingmoor's brakedown crane. In one photo, two men can be seen standing in the wagon twenty feet or more above ground level but quite how they got the bottom doors open doesn't bear thinking about...

[Mol_PMB]

Lima had a different interpretation of the livery:

As does a local feature recalling the colliery:

 

I have just flicked through my copy of 'The Great Northern Railway in the East Midlands Vol.3' which includes the Pinxton branch. Sadly no Pinxton wagons to be found in the book though. 

In passing, I did note a nice photo on p.75 dated 1904, taken between Codnor Park and Pye Hill where the GNR and MR were adjacent, which includes at least two (possibly up to four) PO wagons from Read & Son, Salisbury. Another example of Midlands coal heading to LSWR territory. Inevitably there's a D299 present as well.

[Compound2632]

Another one. I must stop! 1357 Class 0-6-0 No. 1602 at Nottingham, "later 1880s":

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue image of MRSC 93296, Ian Howard Collection. The caption notes that the background has been whited out.]

 

This engine was from a batch of 50 built by Beyer Peacock, this one being delivered in September 1883. Beyers had been delivering beyhind schedule, The specification, dated 1 November 1881, specified the then standard green livery but whether that was changed to red for later engines of the batch - the last five were delivered in March 1884, fifteen months late.  No. 1602 was one of ten that went new to Nottingham and were still there in April 1892. No. 1602 was rebuilt with larger cylinders in December 1892; this photo dates from before that. [S. Summerson, Midland Railway Locomotives Vol. 4 (Irwell Press, 2005).]

 

Anyway, what:

 

 

[Crop from high-res scan of MRSC 93296.]

 

Three wide planks - 2' 9" - 3' 0" deep? - no side door. But:

M

COAL

049

?

 

The wagon on the other side is a Midland ex-PO, four planks, relatively recently painted Midland grey with MR lettering. Another wagon can be glimpsed between the legs of the man with the oiler - another four-plank, with through top plank.

[Compound2632]

19 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

In passing, I did note a nice photo on p.75 dated 1904, taken between Codnor Park and Pye Hill where the GNR and MR were adjacent, which includes at least two (possibly up to four) PO wagons from Read & Son, Salisbury. Another example of Midlands coal heading to LSWR territory. Inevitably there's a D299 present as well.