More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[Compound2632]

Over on the Midland Railway Company topic, I've posted a series of photos of coal stacks, including a particularly interesting photo of Holbeck shed:

Here's another Holbeck photo, showing No. 1003 in original condition. This was one of a batch of ten built by Vulcan, this one being delivered in December 1872. These were the last Kirtley 0-6-0s to be built with weatherboards rather than cabs. This engine was rebuilt with a Johnson B boiler in May 1889 but I feel sure this photo was taken considerably before then. The engine is certainly in the dark green livery:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue image of MRSC 92689.]

 

There's a coal stack behind and to the right of the tender but the thing that really caught my eye is on the other edge of the picture:

 

 

[Crop from high-res scan of MRSC 92689.]

 

This is a standard Kirtley lowsided wagon - 3-plank dropside - of the sort that made up over three-quarters of the Midland's wagon fleet by the end of Kirtley's tenure. What makes it interesting is the inscription COAL WAGON, with below that, I think, LOCO DEPT.

[moore43grm]

5 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

You could take a trip to Wakefield and have a look:

https://www.wakefieldrms.org/exhibition/

Already booked in the calendar.

 

Just to bring this topic back to wagons, look at the sidings, dumb buffered private owner wagons and MR opens, and not to mention that rail stop!

 

[Compound2632]

Going round in circles here!

 

[Andy Hayter]

Except this latest view has a whole rake of additional wagons not present in the earlier picture.

[Compound2632]

37 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

Except this latest view has a whole rake of additional wagons not present in the earlier picture.

 

My post of 2 Dec 2023 has a colourised version of this photo... nevertheless, good to see the unadulterated original.

[Mol_PMB]

I was having a look at J. P. Richards' book of sketches last night, which is pretty good though not entirely legible in places and I thought there might have been scope for increasing the size of the images a bit (smaller margins). 

One thing I noted was that several wagons were recorded in a very plain livery but bearing owners' plates on the bodywork. 

 

Over in this thread Paul Bartlett recently posted an interesting list of wagon lettering notes which also includes a 'CRC' example with a cast plate indicating the (colliery) ownership on the bodywork:

 

I'm familiar with wagon leasing companies affixing plates showing ownership. Also that in the early 1900s some firms used plates instead of paint to indicate ownership. But I hadn't realised that these had lasted so long. Probably just my ignorance.

 

 

[Compound2632]

47 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

I'm familiar with wagon leasing companies affixing plates showing ownership. Also that in the early 1900s some firms used plates instead of paint to indicate ownership. But I hadn't realised that these had lasted so long. Probably just my ignorance.

 

Here's an example:

 

 

[Compressed scan of DY9263, MRSC 88-1987-375/5, Ticknall siding, Old Parks, April 1910.]

 

and a close-up of the wagon on the right:

 

 

The cast plate in the close-up extract reads:

 

Checkland & Co. Limited

Coleorton Colliery

No. 85

Leicester & Burton Line

 

It has a Midland register plate on the solebar and angled, rather than semicircular, crown plates - something of a trademark of the wagon building firm of Edward Eastwood, Chesterfield. The Midland PO Registers give register numbers 13218-13267 as Checkland Son & Williams, Donisthorpe Colliery, Nos. 51-100, built by Eastwood and registered in Jan 1894. Dimensions were 15 ft over headstocks, 7' 6" wide over body, 3' 4" deep with 2' 4" tall door, which nicely matches the photo - four 7" planks, a 5" plank above the door, and 7" top plank. 

 

No. 85 would be register No. 13252 which I can convince myself is the number on the register plate.

 

Keith Turton, Private Owner Wagons a Thirteenth Collection, pp. 31-33, has an article on Checkland & Co. Ltd. that is illustrated with a photo of No. 86 taken probably 1930s, in all respects identical except the cast owner / number plate has gone, replaced by paint:

 

CHECKLAND & Co Ltd - top two planks

COLEORTON COLLERY (may have been changed from DONISTHORP & COLEORTON COLLIERIES)

86             Nr LEICESTER

 

It has gained an extra plate on the solebar which I think may be a Wagon Repairs Ltd 'for repairs advise' plate.

 

There are a couple of other wagons from the same Eastwood batch in the photo. The next wagon along also has a two-digit number which might be 11. The PO register also gives Checkland & Co's Nos. 1-50, built by G.R. Turner, Langley Mill, in April / May 1894, 15 ft over headstocks, 7' 6" wide, 3' 1 1/2" deep with full height door - which all fits; the 2 1/2" lower height than No. 85 is obvious.

 

Both batches are recorded in the register as 8 ton carrying capacity.

[Mol_PMB]

Very interesting - the nearest five (or so) wagons appear to have similar plates and no visible painted ownership lettering. The date of 1910 accords with my impression of when this style was more common. I suppose that a more detailed study of my PO wagon book library would give an indication of the trend from plates to lettering in the early years of the 20th century?

Does it mean that those who agonise over the correct shade of GWR red should also have mostly unlettered PO wagons?

[corneliuslundie]

"Does it mean that those who agonise over the correct shade of GWR red should also have mostly unlettered PO wagons?"

Even for 1912, the year I model. Something to think about though I have a feeling that most South Wales collieries did paint liveries on their wagons.

Jonathan

[hmrspaul]

More interesting is why this didn't continue.

 

It did for all tank wagons - and well into the BR period, all those well illustrated SMBP 100T bogie tanks of 1968 had the SMBP number on a plate on the solebar which was useful as all the SMBP fleet was split up between Shell and BP and renumbered - sometimes more than once. And the usually large plates have gone largely unnoticed - I think I have more in my garage than the NRM has down the road (never seen one in there!)  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/ncbtankwagons/e1e06eaed

 

Paul

Edited Monday at 19:21 by hmrspaul

[41516]

11 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Ticknall siding, Old Parks, April 1910

 

We've had the Ticknall Tramway come up before, haven't we?  A very interesting little local line.

 

The raised transhipment area from the tramway is still there, beneath the undergrowth and could, in theory <ahem> be accessed from A511  Ashby bypass.

[Aire Head]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

that is illustrated with a photo of No. 86 taken probably 1930s, in all respects identical except the cast owner / number plate has gone, replaced by paint:

 

Does it retain the single sided brakes also? 

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Aire Head said:

Does it retain the single sided brakes also? 

 

Yes, single sided. Tare 5-6-0 compared to 5-11 for its sibling in the Ticknall photo. I don't think that can be accounted for purely by the removal of the cast plates!