More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[Dave John]

I use the AR 88052 sheet a lot for rivets 

[Andy Hayter]

1 hour ago, 41516 said:

 

There are alternatives (for rivets/bolt heads at least) available from AK Interactive, Hgw, Micromark and Microscale - Not used any of them personally, but might need to look into things when my Archer supply gets lower.

 

 

 

AK interactive's rivets are Archer rivets so I assume they will also become a victim of the announcement.

[Dave John]

Hmm. A couple of sheets left, but after that ? I have been playing about with the Masterclub resin rivets and bolts, but that is drill a hole and glue them in. Down at 4mm scale we are talking 0.25 mm holes, in straight lines accurately spaced. Not sure I could manage that for this sort of wagon. 

 

 

[Compound2632]

6 hours ago, 41516 said:

Microscale

 

I've had a look at their website but couldn't see any rivet transfers. I'm a happy user of their decal setting / softening products. MicroSet and MicroSol.

[41516]

Microscale HO rivets

 

[Dave Hunt]

It says on their web site that the rivets are only two dimensional.

 

Dave

[Dave John]

An interesting find 41516, but the microscale ones are 2D.  The Archers ones are 3D so they can be applied to the primer then painted over. 

[37Oban]

9 hours ago, Dave John said:

Hmm. A couple of sheets left, but after that ? I have been playing about with the Masterclub resin rivets and bolts, but that is drill a hole and glue them in. Down at 4mm scale we are talking 0.25 mm holes, in straight lines accurately spaced. Not sure I could manage that for this sort of wagon. 

 

 

Hi,

 

I like the wee Scotch block!  I don't think I've ever seen one modelled before!  Something to think about for my St Mungo's layout!

 

Roja

[Dave Hunt]

9 hours ago, Dave John said:

Hmm. A couple of sheets left, but after that ? I have been playing about with the Masterclub resin rivets and bolts, but that is drill a hole and glue them in. Down at 4mm scale we are talking 0.25 mm holes, in straight lines accurately spaced. Not sure I could manage that for this sort of wagon. 

 

 

 

I quite agree. It's a bit of a balls aching job in 7mm and the 'ping' factor in 0.5 mm drills is bad enough; what it would be like with 0.25 mm ones is awful to contemplate - well, for someone as ham fisted as me anyway. 

 

That's a lovely Caley wagon by the way.

 

Dave

Edited September 2, 2022 by Dave Hunt

[Compound2632]

Looks like we may be back to small squares of plasticard...

 

Good for square-headed bolts, at least.

[airnimal]

I am going for my straight jacket to be fitted shortly  !

[41516]

2 hours ago, Dave John said:

An interesting find 41516, but the microscale ones are 2D.  The Archers ones are 3D so they can be applied to the primer then painted over. 

 

I know, I've been using Archer decals since 2012!

 

The point is that there are other options and not just a sole supplier.   Anyone who can print resin on top of decal carrier film should be able to produce a similar product.

 

2D isn't so much of a problem in 4mm scale - see those who only use lining decals for boiler bands, etc. Providing there is something raised may give enough of an impression, depending on what you are trying to achieve.  Not everything needs scale golf balls on the surface in the same way as a 1960s AIrfix aircraft kit....

Edited September 2, 2022 by 41516

[Compound2632]

Moving on from this riveting discussion, here's twelve of the fourteen wagons currently being worked on, with their interiors roughly painted:

 

 

The method, for which no warranty is offered, is a rapid coat of Humbrol No. 94 - a very ancient tin, no idea what the colour is called - applied with a broad, flat brush, followed by a heavily thinned wash of Humbrol No. 33 matt black, then the same of Precision LMS Freight Stock Grey (being the grey that was to hand), and finally a bit more of the No. 94 if the effect looked too grey. I've only done floors on wagons where I think the floor will be visible! Wagon that will have coal loads have ended up the least yellowish, more by luck than judgement.

[Nick Lawson]

21 hours ago, 41516 said:

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Archer are going out of business...

This has been disputed elsewhere:

https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=8256#p93086

 

I have no info either way.

[Compound2632]

48 minutes ago, Nick Lawson said:

This has been disputed elsewhere:

https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=8256#p93086

 

I have no info either way.

 

As stated there, it was very clear from their website yesterday that the proprietor, now aged 76, is retiring, with a view to taking up looking after rescue cats - a noble occupation of which I know at least some readers will fully approve. The website has changed today to a single page stating that owing to demand they are not taking any more orders.

[wagonman]

4 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

with a view to taking up looking after rescue cats - a noble occupation of which I know at least some readers will fully approve.

 

My friend George would definitely approve...

 

[Dave Hunt]

11 hours ago, airnimal said:

I am going for my straight jacket to be fitted shortly  !

 

There's mad, there's barking mad, and then there's Mike Osborne.......

 

(says he jealously)

 

Dave

[Compound2632]

Just now, Dave Hunt said:

There's mad, there's barking mad, and then there's Mike Osborne.......

 

As I said, it was Mike who put me onto Historex Agents as a supplier of archer transfers, as that's where he gets his Masterclub bolts - but those are Russian-made so supply is probably problematic now. 

 

But of course in 7 mm scale - and especially once you've embraced S7 as a way of life - you're held to higher standards; in 4 mm scale and 00 one can still, I hope, get away with giving an impression.

[Worsdell forever]

https://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=4421

[billbedford]

OK, another off-topic question:

 

Did engineer's saloons, especially pre-grouping, carry passenger alarm gear?

[jamie92208]

1 hour ago, billbedford said:

OK, another off-topic question:

 

Did engineer's saloons, especially pre-grouping, carry passenger alarm gear?

I suspect that they all had a guards compartment with a brake valve but don't know.

 

Jamie

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, billbedford said:

Did engineer's saloons, especially pre-grouping, carry passenger alarm gear?

 

In Lacy & Dow, most of the photos of inspection saloons are 19th-century officials. On these, the loops for the external Harrison cord are fitted, so the answer is, in the case of the Midland, yes. In 20th-century photos, these loops have been removed, so presumably the internal alarm cord has been fitted. However, in no photo is the alarm gear visible on the end of the carriage. (I've not done a search for other photos not in Lacy & Dow.)

 

These carriages do all have a guard's compartment with handbrake.

 

From Philip Millard's book on LNWR 30 ft 1 in carriages, photos take in the 1890s show no Harrison cord loops, but they are there in photos of Mr Footner's saloon taken in 1903 and 1911, by which time they were obsolete! The drawing reproduced of a saloon with a verandah at both ends shows a handbrake standard on one verandah. These saloons were paired with particular assigned locomotives, so probably never worked in ordinary passenger trains.

[Compound2632]

Progress with the Cambrian pair:

 

 

I had run a topic in the Railways of Wales section:

... which helped me make up my mind about condition and livery. I did add the extra spacing blocks behind the buffers on the 2-plank wagon, though I'm slightly regretting this as the photo of a new-built wagon by Pickering in 1902 does not have them:

 

 

[Embedded link to HMRS photos.]

 

I've gone for post-1899 livery on the 2-plank and the earlier darker grey on the 4-plank. I was rash in thinking I needed only the CAM )!( RYS transfers; looking through my stock I couldn't find anything quite suitable for the load markings, so I've ordered the relevant CamKits sheet from the WRRC. No doubt their sales officer is cursing me for incurring the PayPal fee twice...

Edited September 4, 2022 by Compound2632
typo.

[Mikkel]

Very nice, the post-1899 Cambrian livery is among the most elegant on pre-grouping wagons, I think.

 

I'm trying to think if there were any other railways that abbreviated the company name like that on goods wagons - i.e. more than just the first letter in each word. Perhaps for the Cambrian it was a practical necessity, as CR was already taken?

[corneliuslundie]

Another company with the same problem: 

In fact the same letters.

Jonathan