Kitmaster -is this possible, or just a daft idea?

[Horsetan]

Given that the Kitmaster models are from over 50 years ago and created to plastic kit standards of the 1950s and 1960s, I suspect the only value in exactly copying the kits would be nostalgia value, and the time might be better spent redesigning the models to modern standards. It looks like Dave has done some considerable redesigns on his already!

 

Edit - looks like I was duplicating Kenton's thinking there! 

 

The only other Stirling Single kit I've heard of in 4mm scale was the Millholme one, which is almost as ancient as the Kitmaster job.

[Il Grifone]

David, what about the Lord of the Isles chassis modified for a connecting rod? The bodies are similar although without a single to hand I cannot say. As you have seen my 3-rail Lord of the Isles will pull 9 Exleys so it should be okay for this, shouldn't it?

 

Garry

 

Hi Garry,

 

I'm not sure there is enough space for the mechanism in the boiler - Dean's masterpiece is rather larger than Stirling's. There is also Tri-ang's deplorable habit of setting the body too high which only makes matters worse. My Single has a set of Romford 32mm drivers at present with the axle set higher and Romford gears replacing Tri-ang's. This was only partly successful as these wheels are too large (I have a set from Hornby's version to replace them (in a drawer for ages!).  A Kitmaster single* awaits them....  (I'm undecided whether to fit a motor. I was thinking of a set piece with C.R. 123 and City of Truro as visiting preserved engines on display (courtesy of Amercom).

 

* Acquired from a boot sale at a very reasonable price together with an ex-L & Y 'Pug', but she is missing most of her cab (and needs a repaint).

 

David

[tamperman36]

If the masters for any of the former Kitmaster/Airfix models didn't get passed on to Dapol then surely the rights for them would belong to Hornby now as they bought  Airfix 

[PhilJ W]

If the masters for any of the former Kitmaster/Airfix models didn't get passed on to Dapol then surely the rights for them would belong to Hornby now as they bought  Airfix 

Debatable point, in the case of the car models masters the situation didn't seem to arise.

[roythebus]

I've been working on a Sterling single and found I can get a small Kean Maygib motor and gearbox in the boiler to drive the driving axle, and it doesn't encroach in the cab either.

[chris p bacon]

I've been working on a Sterling single and found I can get a small Kean Maygib motor and gearbox in the boiler to drive the driving axle, and it doesn't encroach in the cab either.

 I could get a motor and gearbox to fit and made a chassis but the problem comes when you try and mount the cylinders and rods as there's no room for the front bogie to swing.

[Captain Kernow]

Never mind the 3D printing etc., we should be developing the technology for a time machine, to go back and make sure that Kitmaster survived long enough for some of the fabled 'might have been' kits to have appeared, such as the LNER A3 and the USA tank!

[jwealleans]

I'd love to see the one Dan Pinnock made.

If you mean the one which is on display at Locomotion, Dave, he didn't make it although it does belong to him. I saw it when TW brought it to Grantham one weekend before delivering it to Locomotion. It is tender driven (K's motor, to general disbelief) and from memory it's done as either an 0-8-0 or a 2-6-0. It doesn't have a 4 wheel bogie at the front, I'm fairly sure.

 

Another idea you might try is one Barry Oliver passed to me, which is to put the pivot point for the bogie arm ahead of the bogie instead of behind it. I'm sure if you PM him he'll let you have the diagram he sent me. I used it on the C7 I've almost done for Grantham and it certainly works.

[billbedford]

The only other Stirling Single kit I've heard of in 4mm scale was the Millholme one, which is almost as ancient as the Kitmaster job.

 

 

There was also one by Stelfox.

[Barry O]

Strangely enough my late father scratchbuilt a GNR Single using plasticard, a Ks tender drive unit (which still works!).

 

 

And he also left me  several Romford wheels to allow me to build several more Singles.. anyone need a pair or two?

 

baz

[CKPR]

Finding unmade kits is not the problem, being prepared to pay the price does put some off, but this is what Sci-fi modellers have been doing for years. Look back at old Sci-fi from 60s and 70s and you will start to recognise the original kits, even when only part is used. Only way to replicate those classic sci-fi models is to buy an original kit(some don't come cheap), make a copy of the part required without damaging the kit(more difficult if sealed in bag), put back in packaging and sell it on(sometimes at a profit). The collectors get their unmade and undamaged kits, the modellers get the parts copied they require.

I think the problem with car kits would relate more to licensing of the car manufacturer. Unofficial models rarely state the actual vehicle make(trade mark), but to everyone it is obviously a certain vehicle.

 

This is what "Polar Lights" have been doing with the old Aurora monster kits, the moulds for which are either lost or unavailable.

[Talltim]

This is what "Polar Lights" have been doing with the old Aurora monster kits, the moulds for which are either lost or unavailable.

I can;t help feeling that is slightly different because of the shapes involved

[billbedford]

I can't help feeling that the world wide sales potential for SciFi kits is many many time greater than for old Kitmaster ones.

[PhilJ W]

This is what "Polar Lights" have been doing with the old Aurora monster kits, the moulds for which are either lost or unavailable.

Many of the Aurora moulds were lost in a train crash.

[Golden Fleece 30]

I see there are 2 Kitmaster Stirling Singles on Ebay today. One has part of an extra body with it. Unfortunately they are made up.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Golden Fleece 30

[chris p bacon]

I see there are 2 Kitmaster Stirling Singles on Ebay today. One has part of an extra body with it. Unfortunately they are made up.

I asked at the Kitmaster collectors stand at Warley in Nove/Dec and they had made up ones for £25 and unmade for £40.

[Golden Fleece 30]

At those prices they will be staying with them and not coming my way.  I certainly would not want a made up plastic kit and even if was £25 for an unmade one I still would not be interested.  I look at what an item is actually worth, not what others are willing to pay which inflates a price beyond its value. There is a big difference between market value and actual worth.

 

Garry

[jwealleans]

Keep your eyes peeled. I picked one up on Ebay for £7 not too long ago.

[Il Grifone]

I can't help feeling that the world wide sales potential for SciFi kits is many many time greater than for old Kitmaster ones.

 

Like this one?

 

http://www.kitmaster.org.uk/XL5.htm

 

My brother had one at the time (assembled by myself), but it ended up in the bin I believe.       Nowadays they are very sought after....

Edited July 18, 2016 by Il Grifone

[detheridge]

Many thanks for the comments folks.

I was also thinking what the reaction would be if other Kitmasters were made available once again: The Duchess (it would be an ideal candidate for kitbashing into those Stanier 'neverwazza' 4-6-4s and 4-8-4s?), the NYC Hudson, The Swiss Crocodile, and of course, the LNER Beyer-Garratt?

From memory, the late Frank Dyer of Borchester fame reckoned that Kitmster coaches were the best ever....

 

Best wishes,

David.

[darrel]

The Blue pulman

Or the class 08 which would be a useful way of filling up space in a depot maybe with a bonnet door open. Or in a scrap yard. Wasp stripes would be a pain to paint though.

[Horsetan]

At those prices they will be staying with them and not coming my way.  I certainly would not want a made up plastic kit and even if was £25 for an unmade one I still would not be interested.  I look at what an item is actually worth, not what others are willing to pay which inflates a price beyond its value. There is a big difference between market value and actual worth.

 

Under a tenner is what you want, then.  ....or preferably free?

 

.... the late Frank Dyer of Borchester fame reckoned that Kitmaster coaches were the best ever....

 

The Mk.1s are still good today, and their glazing has never really been bettered. I've collected a fair few for modernising. They do benefit from upgraded detailing parts from Southern Pride, Comet, etc. The only downside at the moment is that their prices - even for wrecked ones - are getting very silly indeed

 

Coopercraft Mk.1s are 21st century Kitmasters - I've bought them whenever I've found them because they are enjoyable to build.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Horsetan

[Horsetan]

There was also one by Stelfox.

Never ever seen one. Did it exist?

[Golden Fleece 30]

Under a tenner is what you want, then.  ....or preferably free?

 

Under a tenner is fine.  You cannot tell me once an item was produced and completed then sold for a few shillings its material goes up in price because I will not believe you.  The cost was what it was at the time of manufacture and nothing else.  The only time that happens (which is wrong) is when things are left on the shelf and the greedy seller/shopkeeper ups the price even though he bought it in at the lower one. 

[chris p bacon]

Under a tenner is fine.  You cannot tell me once an item was produced and completed then sold for a few shillings its material goes up in price because I will not believe you.  The cost was what it was at the time of manufacture and nothing else.  The only time that happens (which is wrong) is when things are left on the shelf and the greedy seller/shopkeeper ups the price even though he bought it in at the lower one. 

So I'm guessing that if you were to sell something of your own on Ebay (Other sites are available) and someone wanted to pay the market price  you'd refuse as it didn't cost that when it was first purchased, if you don't then you will be as greedy as any other.

 

Whatever a product costs when it was first produced is immaterial, if it isn't popular then the price will stay low, if on the other hand the amount available is less than the demand the price will rise and squeeze out those unwilling to pay more. It has nothing to do with greed and is all about supply and demand. It's been that way since the dawn of time and is unlikely to change.