Do double standards exist in this hobby?

[TheSignalEngineer]

Dirty loco with pristine fake PO coal merchant liveries from 500 miles away.

[BG John]

Worrying about (and counting) rivets on a loco,

then running it through a station which is so

wrong (geographically, era and style!)

And running it on rails that are 7 inches too close together. Or 7.09 inches if you're fanatical enough about improved running and finer flangeways. Even the most fanatical anti rivet counter might notice that sort of error in rivet spacing .

[BG John]

Dirty loco with pristine fake PO coal merchant liveries from 500 miles away.

Especially when the wagons are contemporary with the loco, but the liveries are from several decades in the past. Or worse still when even the wagons pre-date the loco by several decades!

[Dunsignalling]

Hello everyone,

 

This has been going through my mind lately and I was wondering if anyone else shares these thoughts. I hope that this will be a thoughtful discussion rather than anything inflammatory. There is one or two double standards that I've noticed that is worth mentioning:

 

1) It's funny how people will rip endlessly into Hornby for the "wrong green" of their GWR engines, but no one says a peep about Bachmann's bright orange lining for their GWR engines. The lining is just as wrong as the colour but you won't find any significant threads discussing but you will find many many threads about Hornby's GWR green.

 

2) I'm not sure if this is exactly a double standard but it should be mentioned. People complain about how there are not any local model shops around where they live, yet they then describe how they ordered 400 quid of stuff from an online box shifter. Clearly, some people do not see the connection.

 

Does anyone else have any observations?

Spot on, especially about those who bemoan the loss of local model shops where they only spent peanuts when they needed some oddment in a hurry. 

 

Yes, Hornby's GWR green is iffy and Bachmann's orange lining sticks out like a sore thumb but, in any case, Bachmann rarely approach Hornby's standard when it comes to lining.

 

Out of my (approx.) 150 steam outline locos, only five are Bachmann and (BR) lined green anyway, Evening Star, a 64xx, a Lord Nelson, a Standard 3MT and 5MT.

 

Whoever makes them, my locos normally end up weathered so it's not something I get worked up about. 

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

Especially when the wagons are contemporary with the loco, but the liveries are from several decades in the past. Or worse still when even the wagons pre-date the loco by several decades!

And half the "PO" wagons are named for firms that never had rail wagons anyway with liveries based on road vehicles, beermats or the name-board on the owner's factory.

 

The vans are worst being based on railway company designs when the real things were [a] vanishingly rare and mostly made by one builder to a single pattern that isn't even available in kit form AFAIK.

 

Pet Hate. Rant Over.

 

John

Edited July 4, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[jonny777]

I don't mind purchasing from my local model shop, as long as I can look at photos of all their products online and order from a website.

 

The one thing I dislike about model shops is trying to mooch around for hours in order to see if there is anything that takes my fancy. I know there are advantages like being able to physically see the product, or even have it tested in the shop; but they take second place to the pressure I feel under to make a purchase and go home.

 

I prefer to browse online in the comfort of my own home and make decisions on whether to buy anything without any sense of obligation.

 

This is not confined to model purchases, because although there is a large Waitrose supermarket only a mile away from where I live, I choose to order online and have the groceries delivered for the same reason. Yes, I am probably an ideal candidate for psychologists.

 

As for double standards, I try not to criticise any manufacturers' products. If they are not quite right then I either live with it, correct it myself, or don't buy any.

[Graham456]

I model the exactness of P4 and the compromise of On30, I am therefore myself guilty of double standards.....

See, I didn't mention OO!

O ! Yes you did. In that last line!of yours

[Stubby47]

I play with toy trains. Most of them are quite nicely made, and in the colours someone far more informed than me has decided is correct.

 

My track is not the right width apart, apparently, but as the wheels that run on it are far too wide and the flanges (yep, I dared) are too big, as long as it all works, I don't really care.

 

I run locos and rolling stock out of location, era and probably in incorrect formations. I use ********* to join them together - not prototypical, but as I said, as long as it all works, I don't really care.

 

Nothing else on my layouts move, no cars, no people, not even the bus on the bridge (if I had one), but does this matter, - no, not really.

 

After all, it's only toy trains, and Rule 1 applies.

[PaulCheffus]

2) I'm not sure if this is exactly a double standard but it should be mentioned. People complain about how there are not any local model shops around where they live, yet they then describe how they ordered 400 quid of stuff from an online box shifter. Clearly, some people do not see the connection.

 

Hi

 

I had a local shop once that I tried to support but they failed countless times to get new models in that I ordered. They are no longer there and all my purchases now come from the internet.

 

The other problem with a local shop is they cannot be expected to stock all the currently available models so you can often go to get something and come back empty handed. Internet shops have a larger market place and can afford to hold larger stocks.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

Edited July 4, 2016 by PaulCheffus

[sharris]

And half the "PO" wagons are named for firms that never had rail wagons anyway with liveries based on road vehicles, beermats or the name-board on the owner's factory.

 

 

 

Since I know that Pugh & Co actually did exist, I have plans for a rake of (mostly fictitious) PO wagons:

 

Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub. 

[BG John]

And half the "PO" wagons are named for firms that never had rail wagons anyway with liveries based on road vehicles, beermats or the name-board on the owner's factory.

If your fictional railway had existed, they might have had their own wagons! I'm currently building some totally fictitious PO wagons for my P4 broad gauge layout. I suppose I should be a serious finescale rivet counter, but almost no information on the appearance of wagons exists, and although the companies that owned them are recorded, there is almost no information on liveries. There are just a few partial views in the background of photos, and I think one really clear photo of one wagon. So I'm making up the appearance of the wagons, and will be creating fictional owners to operate from my fictional station, with fictional liveries.

 

But that's no excuse for modern image (WW1 and after) modellers to do the same, as they have plenty of information available!!!

[BG John]

Since I know that Pugh & Co actually did exist, I have plans for a rake of (mostly fictitious) PO wagons:

 

Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub. 

Most PO wagons were no more than 16ft long. You'll need very unconvincing bogie wagons, or at least four wheelers with a very long wheelbase, to fit that name on .

[Vistisen]

What about 00-SF?

 

How about fitting smoke units, but still using an electric motor to power the thing. Does that count as a double standard?

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Why does no one fit smoke generators to diesel?

[Dunsignalling]

If your fictional railway had existed, they might have had their own wagons! I'm currently building some totally fictitious PO wagons for my P4 broad gauge layout. I suppose I should be a serious finescale rivet counter, but almost no information on the appearance of wagons exists, and although the companies that owned them are recorded, there is almost no information on liveries. There are just a few partial views in the background of photos, and I think one really clear photo of one wagon. So I'm making up the appearance of the wagons, and will be creating fictional owners to operate from my fictional station, with fictional liveries.

 

But that's no excuse for modern image (WW1 and after) modellers to do the same, as they have plenty of information available!!!

Interesting what differing levels of authenticity are acceptable or unacceptable to each of us.

 

I'm quite relaxed about 16.5mm track; there, I've said it.  For me, being able to fit in an operationally satisfying layout rather than a shunting plank or a BLT that will barely hold a 2-coach train trumps having track of compromised appearance. That said, if I had uncompromised space to play with, I might well feel different.

 

By contrast, I get uptight about SR or BR vans finished in supposedly pre-grouping era PO liveries carrying the names of breweries that have only existed since the 1990s.  

 

Funny lot, aren't we.

 

So, what floats your boat, and what sinks it?

 

John

Edited July 4, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[Happy Hippo]

The club members who wax lyrical about fabulous lightweight ply baseboards.

 

So we have a baseboard building tutorial to show them how to make both solid top and open topped versions.

 

However, they then proceed to make a large 8' x 5' flat top to rival the USS Enterprise out of chipboard and 3 x 1.

 

And have the audacity to complain it's too heavy to move!

Edited July 4, 2016 by Happy Hippo

[Zomboid]

Why does no one fit smoke generators to diesel?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XHFw-GAy7U

I once saw an O scale 47 with a smoke generator, but the way the smoke drifted out of the exhaust was worse than if it hadn't been there. Never seen it on a steam loco, but if the same lack of urgency applies to the "blast" it'll be pretty rubbish.

[Vistisen]

The club members who wax lyrical about fabulous lightweight ply baseboards.

 

So we have a baseboard building tutorial to show them how to make both solid top and open topped versions.

 

However, they then proceed to make a large 8' x 5' flat top to rival the USS Enterprise out of chipboard and 3 x 1.

 

And have the audacity to complain it's too heavy to move!

 

I would love to see this tutorial, Please can you send it to me, I need to make transportable opentop naseboards.

Edited July 4, 2016 by Vistiaen

[pointstaken]

Each to their own.

 

Dennis

[Stevelewis]

I buy   a lot  from  a local  model  shop,  but  its  in  Shaw  Nr  Oldham,  I  Live  in  Wales,

 

I pick  up the  phone ..... give  an  order.... and  payment  details......... and  99% of the  time   the  order  arrives next  day

 

I ordered my  2 Hornby 71s  Friday PM  they  arrived  Saturday  8-30AM  at a very  competitive price  as well

 

I have  used  this  shop  for  many  years.

[PatB]

I once saw an O scale 47 with a smoke generator, but the way the smoke drifted out of the exhaust was worse than if it hadn't been there. Never seen it on a steam loco, but if the same lack of urgency applies to the "blast" it'll be pretty rubbish.

 

I've yet to see a smoke generator which was even half convincing, mainly because, as the great Curly Lawrence used to emphasise, you can't scale naturre. for this reason i'm unconvinced that worthwhile small-scale smoke is physically possible.

[Stevelewis]

I've yet to see a smoke generator which was even half convincing, mainly because, as the great Curly Lawrence used to emphasise, you can't scale naturre. for this reason i'm unconvinced that worthwhile small-scale smoke is physically possible.

 

Exactly most  of  my  large  scale  steam  locos have onboard  smoke units  as  standard,  I  have not  used  one  for  years, I simply disconnect  them,  the  smoke  never  looked  correct,  sent  oily deposits  on to  the  stock.

 

  ALSO  many  do not  realise  the  potential  health  issues  that  may occur due  to inhaling  the  actual  smoke!......................

In the  late 70s & 80s there  was  a lot  of  discussion  about  this, it was reported  the  smoke  was  more  harmful than  cigarette smoke, many exhibition managers  banned  their  use!

 

but  we  are  now  off topic!!

[PatB]

Inhalation of carbon based combustion products is never a great idea healthwise, regardless of source. However, my memory of late 70s/early 80s exhibitions is of such a thick haze of the smoke from the pipes favoured by older enthusiasts at the time that a few puffs from a smoke generator would have gone unnoticed .

[ejstubbs]

People complain about how there are not any local model shops around where they live, yet they then describe how they ordered 400 quid of stuff from an online box shifter.

 

I think this happens in pretty much any vaguely specialist market these days.  On a climbing forum I also frequent there are frequent gripes about the demise of climbing shops with a useful range of stock, and knowledgeable staff able and willing to offer helpful advice and guidance (Peglers of Arundel being a notable loss in recent years) right next to posts asking which online retailer is selling such-and-such a rope, rucksack or whatever at the lowest price.  (Don't get me started on the twits who post asking which are the best boots to buy!  The answer is always: the ones that fit you best - and you can only find that out in a shop.  Unless, I suppose, you really, really like your local post office.  Or hate your feet.)

[Nearholmer]

I don't think this is a question entirely confined to railway modelling, unless the bits of wood herein were related to baseboard construction:

 

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

 

Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

 

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

 

(The next verse is, IIRC, something about 4mm/ft scale wheel and track standards)

 

K

[Bernard Lamb]

I have never set foot in a UK model shop since a man with the same first name as me retired.

Oh the nostalgia. Bernie Victor and Kings Cross model shop a couple of hundred yards apart. Those were the days.

As for double standards, I prefer to call myself an extreme pragmatist.

Bernard