Stoke Courtenay

[Brinkly]

11 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

 

I'm no expert or masochist in these matters and for reasons forgotten, I settled on buying a couple of Dapol Cattle wagons (4F-020-037) which for some reason haven't entered into the conversation here.

 

How are these considered? They look good to my eye, only issue I found being getting inside to install weights and stock.

I believe the Dapol body is stretched to fit on their generic chassis. 
 

 

[Brinkly]

12 hours ago, MrWolf said:

On a related matter, as the cattle wagons I have to build up are ancient kits, what is actually wrong with the ends on the Cooper Craft W1/W5?

I don’t believe there is anything hideously wrong with the Cooper Craft kit. Geoff Kent was adapting it to a more modern variant in his book. He did replace the roof I think… I’ll have a look later.
 

I think a decent GWR cattle van is well overdue for the 4mm modeller. The Hornby SR Maunsell and Bulleid versions show what a RTR manufacturer can do. Accurascale or Rapido, please!? 
 

Best wishes,

 

Nick.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Brinkly
Typo

[checkrail]

Not being a wagon buff I had no idea there were so many variations on the GW cattle wagon.  It was always my understanding that the Cooper Craft one was pukka, so it's sad to learn that its end/roof profile is wrong.  I always thought that it was the Hornby Dublo/Wrenn one that had the wrong roof profile, being based on a BR (albeit GWR-derived) prototype.  My CC models will stay as they are - life's too short and they look good enough for me!  And I've now got all the cattle wagons I need including one each from LMS, SR and LNER.  But if Accurascale or Rapido were to produce one ...... 

[KNP]

2 minutes ago, checkrail said:

Not being a wagon buff I had no idea there were so many variations on the GW cattle wagon.  It was always my understanding that the Cooper Craft one was pukka, so it's sad to learn that its end/roof profile is wrong.  I always thought that it was the Hornby Dublo/Wrenn one that had the wrong roof profile, being based on a BR (albeit GWR-derived) prototype.  My CC models will stay as they are - life's too short and they look good enough for me!  And I've now got all the cattle wagons I need including one each from LMS, SR and LNER.  But if Accurascale or Rapido were to produce one ...... 

 

My feelings exactly, they look OK to me, spent a lot of time working on them so mine stay.

 

[The Stationmaster]

The only potential difficulty I can see with re-k launched Coopercraft kits might be the condition of the tools.  Some of the late production road vehicle kits seemed to come with considerable amounts of flash although whether this was due to sloppy production work or worn tools I don't know.  Easy enough to clean up on larger parts but maybe (?) not so simple on smaller components or items?

[Coach bogie]

You have given me the kick I need to build some wagons. I never have an issue building coaches but rarely have the enthusiasm for wagons. 

 

Coopercraft cattle wagon now on the bench. Looking at the instructions ( is that a first???) There is a drawing with the correct end profile. Fret has a half plank too many in height. Did the tool maker mess up? On with the build.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[MrWolf]

15 hours ago, Brinkly said:

I don’t believe there is anything hideously wrong with the Cooper Craft kit. Geoff Kent was adapting it to a more modern variant in his book. He did replace the roof I think… I’ll have a look later.
 

I think a decent GWR cattle van is well overdue for the 4mm modeller. The Hornby SR Maunsell and Bulleid versions show what a RTR manufacturer can do. Accurascale or Rapido, please!? 
 

Best wishes,

 

Nick.

 

Thanks, that's interesting to know, we try not to do too much modernization, it upsets the livestock.

My initial plan was to replace the window bars with wire, fit brass bearings, decent wheels and three link couplings.

I've also still got some of the old Bachmann / Mainline LMS cattle wagons which I'm hoping will scrub up reasonably well.

[Miss Prism]

On 20/01/2023 at 22:14, BWsTrains said:

I'm no expert or masochist in these matters and for reasons forgotten, I settled on buying a couple of Dapol Cattle wagons (4F-020-037) which for some reason haven't entered into the conversation here.

 

How are these considered? They look good to my eye, only issue I found being getting inside to install weights and stock.

 

Brief comments. (The brake gear is a generic lever brake, so not very GWR.)

[Brinkly]

11 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

You have given me the kick I need to build some wagons. I never have an issue building coaches but rarely have the enthusiasm for wagons. 

 

Coopercraft cattle wagon now on the bench. Looking at the instructions ( is that a first???) There is a drawing with the correct end profile. Fret has a half plank too many in height. Did the tool maker mess up? On with the build.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

That is a rather interesting discovery, Mike. 

 

Out of interest, what is that taken from? 

 

I discovered that several of the diagrams in the Russel book were out when I put a scale ruler over them. 

 

All the best,

 

Nick.

 

[Miss Prism]

20 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

The only potential difficulty I can see with re-k launched Coopercraft kits might be the condition of the tools.

 

The later tools were done by Tony Brown (at Leytonstone). He wasn't in the same league as the original Mr Coopercraft (at Minehead), whose name I have forgotten.

 

Point taken about the condition of the tools. They'll need some cleaning up and test running. I'm sure Mr Cambrian knows what he's doing.

 

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Miss Prism

[drmditch]

14 hours ago, MrWolf said:

 

Thanks, that's interesting to know, we try not to do too much modernization, it upsets the livestock.

My initial plan was to replace the window bars with wire, fit brass bearings, decent wheels and three link couplings.

I've also still got some of the old Bachmann / Mainline LMS cattle wagons which I'm hoping will scrub up reasonably well.

 

I'm afraid your hopes for the Mainline/Bachmann vehicles are are in vain!

They are too short both in body-length and in wheelbase.

A long time ago (possibly in the last century) I did attempt a conversion as shown here :-

 

 

On the left is the RTR cattle wagon produced by Mainline and inherited by Bachmann with ‘NE’ printed on what was basically an ex-Midland vehicle. On the right is my conversion to something like the LMS Diagram D1661. (The underframe isn't bowed, a feature best shown on LNER examples! It's was just a trick of the camera!) The centre doors and the ends are from the original, with the outer parts of the sides rebuilt to provide the greater length. Dimensions are from Mr Essery’s LMS Wagons Volume 1. This allows much greater detail of the diagonal strapping and bolt head detail to be shown, although it looks much nicer in reality than in my inadequate photograph.

 

The ‘W’ irons and axle boxes are recycled (you need two chassis to get four ‘W’ irons – to avoid the moulded on brake levers). They were cut out and fitted to scratch build solebars. The brake shoes came from the ‘bits box’ (I think they were Dapol originally), and the double ‘V’ hangers, and brake rigging are scratch-built. Cutting and lengthening the roof was a bit tricky. It needed a lot of filling and rubbing down.

 

By  2013 better results  could be obtained using the Parkside (now Peco) kit for the LMS Dia.1661 vehicle.

Using Mr Essery's 'LMS Wagons Vol 1, there are several variations which can be chosen, including the Dia. 1840 fitted vehicle.

 

Here are some 'in the plastic' to show what was done

 

 

 

 

 

And then as finished:-

 

 

Note that the 'unfitted' vehicles are 'piped' and to the confusion of LNER modellers, 'unfitted' ones are shown in grey and bauxite, while the 'fitted' one is grey!

The major limitation of the Parkside mouldings are that the lower fold-down part of the door is only two planks wide. (Curiously the bodged RTR conversion could allow more variation>)

 

I do have a liking for cattle wagons, and it is sad that the only (as far as I am aware) respectable RTR model is the Hornby SR one.

I have one of these in my empty stock train. It easier to run empty as it saves stopping frequently to water the animals.)

 

Great heat and argument has been developed on LNER posts and forums by the unfortunate inadequacies of the Oxford rtr  model.

I regard myself as a modeller, so the Oxford model of the Dia.39 (?) vehicle provides useful material for a quick correction and/or conversion.

Below is one conversion from the Oxford product, and one from the equivalent (more-or-less) Parkside kit.

 

 

For some reason I like Cattle Wagons! Here is a Parkside conversion to a very long-lived GNR version:

 

 

a straight forward 51L ex-NER wagon

 

 

Since at my selected modelling period Cattle Wagons (despite the diminished traffic) were common-user vehicles, I do have some of the Dapol kits intended for conversion into a GWR prototype. I shall follow the GWR threads with interest.

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by drmditch

[drmditch]

Just to illustrate yet another cattle wagon option, I acquired almost by accident another Oxford model.

Here is an unfitted 9'wb vehicle. The roof was an experiment, but I do like the idea, and may repeat it on other 'older' vehicles!

 

 

[57xx]

On 20/01/2023 at 22:56, MrWolf said:

Thanks for the information, I might just replace the rooves if I can tackle the strapping issues neatly. I've got a couple of broken MINK wagons I can practice on.

ISTR reading about the filling in of the vent /washing out slot over the brake levers.

I can imagine that being a problem, cow or sheep muck is a tolerable nuisance, it wipes off, but pig muck follows you around all day, unless you can have a proper wash and if you get it (or any of the others) on the clothes you're spending 12 or more hours in.... Bleh.

 

I'm sure I have seen someone does a brass etch of the strapping with the correct profile. Just wracking my brains to remember where! Wondering if it a Morgan Designs product?

Edit: Actually now thinking it might have been MRD, but their website now only shows a mere 2 products. Not sure what happened to all the bits they used to have! I feel sure it has cropped up recently on RMWeb.

Edited January 22, 2023 by 57xx

[57xx]

14 hours ago, MrWolf said:

I've also still got some of the old Bachmann / Mainline LMS cattle wagons which I'm hoping will scrub up reasonably well.

 

Yeah, about them... I happened to have out my recently finished Parkside kit of the LMS cattle can and because of the discussion on here dug out my 40+ year old Mainline version for comparison.

 

 

Quite a difference there.

[longchap]

24 minutes ago, 57xx said:

Quite a difference there.

 

Your next mission,   .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  (Insert name of really accurate wagon maker here), are newly tooled cattle wagons.

 

I wonder how high up cattle wagons came in the recent poll and were our favourite wagoneers listening? Hopfully yes.

 

Lovely piece of plastic sculpture there Ric 👍

 

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by longchap

[Miss Prism]

1 hour ago, longchap said:

I wonder how high up cattle wagons came in the recent poll and were our favourite wagoneers listening? Hopfully yes.

 

Ordinary cattle wagons weren't included in the poll.

 

[gwrrob]

7 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Ordinary cattle wagons weren't included in the poll.

 

 

@BMacdermott did run a mini-poll on my thread in July 2021 though. The W1 was listed as an option.

 

 

[Miss Prism]

13 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

@BMacdermott did run a mini-poll on my thread in July 2021 though. The W1 was listed as an option.

 

Yes, those mini-polls were a lot more detailed. My response above was in respect of the latest (2022) poll.

 

[MrWolf]

Thanks to all of you for your comments and photos on the subject of cattle wagons. As they're in a box somewhere, I hadn't realised that the four LMS cattle wagons that I have are quite so irredeemable. My plan was to replace the over heavy window bars, replace the couplings and probably the wheels if they were the old plastic ones.

I think that the most efficient solution is  probably put them on eBay and then put a little more cash into Parkside's beer fund.

[drmditch]

1 hour ago, MrWolf said:

Thanks to all of you for your comments and photos on the subject of cattle wagons. As they're in a box somewhere, I hadn't realised that the four LMS cattle wagons that I have are quite so irredeemable. My plan was to replace the over heavy window bars, replace the couplings and probably the wheels if they were the old plastic ones.

I think that the most efficient solution is  probably put them on eBay and then put a little more cash into Parkside's beer fund.

 

Sorry!

[MrWolf]

5 minutes ago, drmditch said:

 

Sorry!

 

Don't apologise, you've saved me some major work and given me a  legitimate excuse to buy some more wagon kits.

 

That's a good result all round!

[St Enodoc]

6 hours ago, longchap said:

 

Your next mission,   .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  (Insert name of really accurate wagon maker here), are newly tooled cattle wagons.

 

I wonder how high up cattle wagons came in the recent poll and were our favourite wagoneers listening? Hopfully yes.

 

Lovely piece of plastic sculpture there Ric 👍

 

 

It might be worth asking Amanda at Bygone Wagons https://bygone-wagons.com/ (usual disclaimer).

[Biggles Dog]

John,

I continue to admire Stoke Courtenay with every photo you provide. I have followed from page 1.

Two queries,  please:

What are your platform surfaces, as I can see paving edging, paving infill and some other form of infill, possibly tarmac or gravel. Advice would be appreciated, as most finishes I have seen are too 'heavy' in texture. All your textures are subdued and in scale to my eye.

How can I get in touch with 'Phil@ Harlequin' - I need a Signal Box nameplate, and I'm using the same Bachmann/Kernow box as the one on your layout. 

I'm 80 years old, living in Oz since 2017,and trying to start modelling again after some health issues, now fortunately resolved.

 

 

Geoff

Edited January 25, 2023 by Biggles Dog
removal of email address

[St Enodoc]

25 minutes ago, Biggles Dog said:

How can I get in touch with 'Phil@ Harlequin' - I need a Signal Box nameplate

Send him a PM using @Harlequin or go direct to https://www.the-pattern-shop.com/.

[Coach bogie]

Well it worked. I am now into wagons again with three cattle wagons on the go. Here is the first. Coopercraft Cattle as a W1, unfitted, replaced rails with wire, one shoe brake on one side, two on the other, lever brake and roof profile flattened to plan. Too hot to sleep last night, so I made good use of the time. Just needs a few tweaks and a clean up before painting.

 

Mike Wiltshire