Horsetan Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 ....for every genuine customer there are 3 timewasters, I can't imagine it's any different in this hobby..... Aren't they called "armchair modellers"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 25, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2017 I have a lot of sympathy for the people running a small business in any hobby. They most probably got into it because of something they wanted but although they were probably taught how to do CAD/ Casting/ mould making/ etching they were never taught customer relations. And from my experience, for every genuine customer there are 3 timewasters, I can't imagine it's any different in this hobby. Something I learnt very early about customers was how they think, working for a builder in the late 80's he was the most miserable b*gger ever, he would snap at customers and give short replies. Sometimes if they were asking a long or complicated question he would just walk away and ignore them. Plasterer and I were always telling him he should be more polite but he said "you can never satisfy customers so I don't bother". The lady who's house we were working on asked what his mood was like one day, we said "same as usual" she moaned about him for a bit and said how he got on her nerves, so we said "why do you use him" her reply "He's really good and I can't find better" He was right, no matter what your attitude is like if the product is good people will put up with it......if you don't believe me, travel Ryanair. Hence the two meanings of the word "clubbable".............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 Aren't they called "armchair modellers"? Dave might have other terms for them ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 But none of mine were technical, they were emails enquiring about prices for items advertised without prices in magazines and to ask about availability. Not hard to answer - in fact I would have expected a draft email to already exist following the placement of an ad. I run a small business, I know about time pressure, I also know how to go about losing custom and how to go bust. I avoid that at all costs, even if means a late night. Roy Roy You are quite right that when a prospective customer asks for price and availability, its common courtesy to reply. Another thing to remember is if the trader has a basic internet presence its more likely emails go missing/overlooked. They may be good model makers but not administrators, especially when its a part time business Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drduncan Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Don't just grumble, don't expect others to feed us,maybe offer to help. The answer might be to form a group(properly setup cooperative maybe) and offer a business proposal. Its been tried and the answer was 'no thanks.' drduncan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Seeing as I was the one who started this debate I would like to clarify I meant the model railway industry in general not the small suppliers and certainly not aimed at any individual. The big boys are just as bad at communication sometimes and they employ people to communicate. Have you tried to get a simple answer off some of them? If you went into a clothes shop and the girl on the till was ignoring you because she was talking to her mates you would say something, call the management or walk out. Why do we tolerate it when the model shop owner does the same? Why do we have to pay well over the odds for a few sheets of badly photocopied paper masquerading as a catalogue? Postage and a few pence is acceptable, but most other industries give you them for free. Even a refund when you shop with them would be welcome and an incentive to spend. Why are items advertised as being available when they aren't? And items not advertised when they are available? We can't buy them if we don't know you've got them. For all we know a supplier has loads of an item we want. Many model railway businesses are more Black Books rather than Open All Hours. They don't seem to want your custom. None of this seems to happen in any other business. And yes I've ran companies. I've worked in the hospitality industry, music industry, pubs and clubs, and I'm now in retail. Not model shops I hasten to add. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 None of this seems to happen in any other business. It looks like you don't get out much. I can assure you that the model railway field is very typical of other sectors. Any cottage industry type of business has a good proportion of these character. Bespoke cycle builders being a very well recorded example. Long delivery times and holding on to cash being typical problems. I know of one such person who would make our friend here look to be excellent in public relation skills. Funnily enough he makes a superb product if you find out how to deal with him. Pubs and restaurants can be pretty good at it. I have come across all manner of people who seem to want to upset the punter rather than serve them. As for the direct employment of people in the skilled building trades, no better not go there, unless you are very lucky I would start advertising in Poland. Bernard 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted January 26, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 26, 2017 One of our best local builders is Roumanian. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted January 26, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 26, 2017 As for the direct employment of people in the skilled building trades, no better not go there, unless you are very lucky I would start advertising in Poland. Going off topic here but this cheeses me off no end. It is a falacy that the Polish are somehow better than a tradesman from the UK. You only have to ask the local building control office of the problems they have with "builders" from other countries who do not bother to even find out what the standard is here let alone adhere to it. My own experience of seeing some of the work carried out by so called "Polish builders" is 2 flooded properties, a fire and countless structural problems, but people will keep using them because they think they are cheap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Going off topic here but this cheeses me off no end. It is a falacy that the Polish are somehow better than a tradesman from the UK. You only have to ask the local building control office of the problems they have with "builders" from other countries who do not bother to even find out what the standard is here let alone adhere to it. My own experience of seeing some of the work carried out by so called "Polish builders" is 2 flooded properties, a fire and countless structural problems, but people will keep using them because they think they are cheap. Chris Looking at pricing for an extension, in one way you are quite right whilst looking at price you have to also look at quality you are buying. On the other hand just because someone is expensive, does not follow they are any good Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted January 26, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 26, 2017 Chris Looking at pricing for an extension, in one way you are quite right whilst looking at price you have to also look at quality you are buying. On the other hand just because someone is expensive, does not follow they are any good You have to be confident that whoever you employ will take the drawings you have and convert them into a workable building, part of that is flagging up any problems that might appear. What some of us have noted is that some will just build what you ask for, not what you need. Funniest one was an architect from Bedford who started to fly his own team in from Poland for projects, as they were so much cheaper. After problems started to appear and confusion he found that although they had reasonable English skills none could actually read a drawing or the details, his "Cheap team" ended up costing him 6 figures and they put him in hospital when he wouldn't pay them. There are cowboys everywhere and they speak different languages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Seeing as I was the one who started this debate I would like to clarify I meant the model railway industry in general not the small suppliers and certainly not aimed at any individual. The big boys are just as bad at communication sometimes and they employ people to communicate. Have you tried to get a simple answer off some of them? If you went into a clothes shop and the girl on the till was ignoring you because she was talking to her mates you would say something, call the management or walk out. Why do we tolerate it when the model shop owner does the same? Why do we have to pay well over the odds for a few sheets of badly photocopied paper masquerading as a catalogue? Postage and a few pence is acceptable, but most other industries give you them for free. Even a refund when you shop with them would be welcome and an incentive to spend. Why are items advertised as being available when they aren't? And items not advertised when they are available? We can't buy them if we don't know you've got them. For all we know a supplier has loads of an item we want. Many model railway businesses are more Black Books rather than Open All Hours. They don't seem to want your custom. None of this seems to happen in any other business. And yes I've ran companies. I've worked in the hospitality industry, music industry, pubs and clubs, and I'm now in retail. Not model shops I hasten to add. Jason Jason, clearly I haven't used any of the businesses you have been involved with. This country has more than it's fair share of badly run hotels, pubs, bars, restaurants, music venues and retailers of all types. You need to spread your skills about a bit more. Jol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 ....This country has more than it's fair share of badly run hotels.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted January 26, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 26, 2017 Jason, clearly I haven't used any of the businesses you have been involved with. This country has more than it's fair share of badly run hotels, pubs, bars, restaurants, music venues and retailers of all types. You need to spread your skills about a bit more. Jol You've obviously stayed at "The Royal Sportsman" in Porthmadog........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted January 26, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) People are people wherever they come from and whatever their business. Some good, some bad. The trick is to not treat them all the same. The problem is often not so much with cheap labour but those who employ them. Roy Edited January 26, 2017 by Roy Langridge 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 People are people wherever they come from and whatever their business. Some good, some bad. The trick is to not treat them all the same. The problem is often not so much with cheap labour but those who employ them. Roy I would have thought the trick was to treat them all the same. Well. Unless and until they prove unworthy of your trust. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Yes there is poor service from hotels, restaurants, builders, etc. But do you use them again or go elsewhere next time? You just have to look at a thread for a certain shop in South Yorkshire to see that people keep going back for more. Why? Use someone else. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted January 26, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 26, 2017 I would have thought the trick was to treat them all the same. Well. Unless and until they prove unworthy of your trust. Sorry, I mean just because somebody is from Eastern Europe, don't assume they are a cowboy. So don't treat all of them as being bad. My current house was owned by an *English* plumber before I bought it. I can prove just what a cowboy he was - just having yet another leak of his doing fixed. Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 Sorry, I mean just because somebody is from Eastern Europe, don't assume they are a cowboy. So don't treat all of them as being bad. My current house was owned by an *English* plumber before I bought it. I can prove just what a cowboy he was - just having yet another leak of his doing fixed. Roy My mistake, Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted January 26, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 26, 2017 My mistake, Roy Not at all, I was very ambiguous in what I wrote. Hence my apology. Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 Not at all, I was very ambiguous in what I wrote. Hence my apology. Roy Well, no harm done! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 26, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 26, 2017 Sorry, I mean just because somebody is from Eastern Europe, don't assume they are a cowboy. So don't treat all of them as being bad. My current house was owned by an *English* plumber before I bought it. I can prove just what a cowboy he was - just having yet another leak of his doing fixed. Roy You think you had problems - we bought our first house from a chap who was a Safety Officer in a nuclear research establishment which produces some very 'interesting' stuff - and he had done some of his own wiring alterations, one of which fused the entire house. Since then I've always been ready to quickly accelerate when passing Aldermaston Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Melrose Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Best of all if my memory hasn't failed me but I'm fairly sure I was told by someone who knew that when the Health and Safety Executive moved out of its Sheffield offices and they became the property of the University of Sheffield, the bill to make it comply with Health and Safety Regulations was eye-wateringly large. Stan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Sorry, I mean just because somebody is from Eastern Europe, don't assume they are a cowboy. So don't treat all of them as being bad. My current house was owned by an *English* plumber before I bought it. I can prove just what a cowboy he was - just having yet another leak of his doing fixed. Roy Mine was owned by an English electrician. We've got it sorted out now. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I guess it's true that the cobbler's children are always the worst-shod! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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