Kernow MRC announce 4-TC

[DJM Dave]

Dammit, Robert!

You've just reminded me I haven't yet ordered a class 74 from Kernow/DJM. More expense!!

You gotta love joined up thinking.....I like it

[robertcwp]

How it used to be.

 

Note the 'Oddball Down' formation, 4.00 mins in. 4-CIG + 4-BEP (Refurb) + 4-CIG.

Great find. The Cig/Bep/Cig formation was a regular on the Portsmouth line at the time. The stock heads off west so was probably going to Bournemouth depot, perhaps for attention to one or more of the units.

 

The up fast seen leaving is 4 Rep+4 TC so the acceleration would probably have been pretty lively.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Before saying it is expensive take a £3 10s coach in about 1968, its value now against income would now be £125, and a range from £51.10 to £145.40, which covers a basic inflation figure of £51.10 to a cost of living version at £145.40.

 

The £3 10s coach would in no way compare to the production standards these days, and yet the Bachmann is called expensive........

Model Railways were always an expensive luxury for most people, and still are for most buyers these days, yes, we can ask for value for money, but I think we overlook inflation and just blaming the makers for the prices is not being in touch with reality.

 

The unit looks good, and covers a gap in the market nicely for lots of users.

 

Stephen.

 

But coaches weren't £3/10/0 in 1968. The Triang Mk1 was 10s6d.

[Gwiwer]

I don't know this for sure at all, but I wouldn't be surprised if Parkstone Bank played a part in not making powered units, as a 33 pushing two units with power equipment and fully loaded might have been considered too much for them?

 

 

My recollection is that the economics just didn't stack up west of Bournemouth and there was no viable case for electrification.  The juice went to Branksome but only because that was used as the reversal point for all stock entering and leaving Bournemouth Depot which was constructed close to the site of the old Bournemouth West station but having lost the direct link to Central around the third (sharply-curved) side of the erstwhile triangle.  

 

Through working to Poole and Weymouth was considered essential so the SR came up with the push-pull solution making use of the 27-way control system.  There never was, to my understanding, any intention to run powered units west of Bournemouth (Branksome) using diesel traction and thus the arguments about weight are not relevant.

 

What was relevant was the need to boost the Weymouth portions to 8TC in summer months and for a couple of peak-time weekday trains.  It was on these workings that the banks up from Weymouth and at Parkstone played merry hell with the standard timings which were devised for 33/1 + 4TC.  A single engine pushing 8TC was at its limit.  Load 8 was all that was permitted the class singly over almost all routes including the hilly Salisbury - Exeter section.  Fill those 8 coaches and the beast at the back could really be struggling up to Bincombe or Parkstone.  As availability permitted pairs of 33/1 were rostered for the heaviest trains which restored the standard power:weight ratio and allowed time to be kept - more or less.  As anyone who has more recently studied the HST sets will know the "pusher" often seemed to be a notch below the leading power car and whining fit to bust.  Thus it was with 8TC pushed by a pair of Cromptons whether it be Bincombe, out of the Severn Tunnel, up the hill at Exeter or even up the hill from the canal cutting to Portsmouth & Southsea high level.  The through Waterloo - Swanage trains were also 8TC plus a single engine every time I saw them.

 

For fans of sound there's ample opportunity with these units for a bit of unpowered "rail noise" followed by the sharp bark of twin Cromptons shoving for all they're worth.

 

Even when electrification was finally authorised to Weymouth it was a "cheap" scheme with greater than normal distances between track paralleling and substation inputs and which to this day restricts the service to 8 cars (2x450) or a single 5-car 444.  Pairs of 5Wes / 442 units and pairs of 444 units are not permitted except under controlled circumstances to Poole and only beyond if no other electric train is operating in the area.  12-car trains (3x450) remain banned.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Gwiwer

[Phil Mc]

That's my Xmas pressie sorted then! ( NSE one ordered )

Better make a start on repainting the 2 Fragonset liveried 33/1's I've got stashed away then.

If the model is anywhere near as good as Kernows Thumper (& I'm sure it will be!) It'll be a beauty!!

 

 

Cheers,

Phil.

[NSE DAZ]

Done it  Just ordered the NSE livery version unit, and what a bonus I had £10 worth of loyalty points I had forgot about 

 

Now do I need a blue and grey version with NSE branding!!

 

Darren NSE DAZ

[kintbury jon]

Question: Did a Civil Engineers liveried 33 run with a NSE TC?

 

Looking at the Crompton page, it is suggested that 33103 was painted in CE August 1990.

 

8023 appears to have been withdrawn March 1990, but a few others soldiered on a bit longer. 8001 made it to July '91, 8015 to May of the same year. 8010 and 8017 were repainted blue during '91.

 

I can only find photos of blue 33's. Would be very interested to see if this happened.

[Swindon 123]

I remember going through the Severn Tunnel in a 4TC on a Rail Ale Ramble many years ago.

 

I'm a pensioner and can't afford these. However, I am ordering two of them, as whether I can afford them or not, I just have to have them.

That may have been the one that came up to Hereford back in the early 70's. I've got a photo of it somewhere, but dammed if i can find it.

 

Paul J.

[Downendian]

Terrific news, well done Kernow.

Infrequent visits to Bristol in the 1970s behind a class 33/1 justifies this model for me, ideally two but I will place an order for at least one within the next couple of months. We were only recently discussing the use of 4TCs on Pompey-Cardiff weekend trains.

Edit : posts on discussion of 4TC excursions onto the WR here

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/16613-cardiff-bristol-portsmouth/?p=2303825

Neil

Edited June 18, 2016 by Downendian

[71H]

Perspective......£300 buys you a meal for two In Some of the restraunts round ere or 10 mins with a high class call girl.

 

There's a girl from Redruth way who would spend the week with you, even as a railway modeller and you got change out of £50 note.

 

 

Not to be a tight fisted git here but it's even cheaper if you use your right hand then you can buy one of these wonderful 4TC's !

 

 

 

Seriously, this is fantastic news, i've waited years for a company to make one of these 4TC's.

 

All i need now is the news for a REP.

 

Someone mentioned about a 33/1 and two 4TC's being the limit..................i seem to recall reading somewhere that when leaving weymouth, the driver would switch off the train heating to get the extra bit of juice to power up towards dorchester, how true that is i don't know ?

 

Thank you Kernow for this 4TC

[The Stationmaster]

Not to be a tight fisted git here but it's even cheaper if you use your right hand then you can buy one of these wonderful 4TC's !

 

 

 

Seriously, this is fantastic news, i've waited years for a company to make one of these 4TC's.

 

All i need now is the news for a REP.

 

Someone mentioned about a 33/1 and two 4TC's being the limit..................i seem to recall reading somewhere that when leaving weymouth, the driver would switch off the train heating to get the extra bit of juice to power up towards dorchester, how true that is i don't know ?

 

Thank you Kernow for this 4TC

 

Turning off the ETH on the rising gradients was common practice when the 33s were working on the Salisbury - Exeter route.  In fact it would have been very difficult for them to get away from Tisbury if they didn't as it seemed to be a real grind in the Up direction from there.

[Philip Jackson]

I'm a sucker for anything RTC so I have the set on order. I agree at £67.50 per coach it's a bit steep, however coaches in the main Bachmann range for the Hawksworth Auto trailers and Mk1 pullmans are almost £59.00 each on a well know retailers site. Even a weathered Mk2 is £55.00

[BlackRat]

They really are great value, try getting the component parts to make one, and see how that adds up, factor in the quality of finish and it's a no brainer.

 

Individual ability to pay is another matter but unfortunately a fact of life.

 

Live with it.

 

Harsh, but then life can be.

[lapford34102]

the driver would switch off the train heating to get the extra bit of juice to power up towards dorchester, how true that is i don't know ?

True, plus the lights, electric tootbrush, coffee machine and everything else. In practice it wasn't that marginal as the crews got the measure of things.

Upwey and Parkstone stops with 8 on would certainly give the Crtompton a workout - instant decoke :-)

IIRC double heading west of Bomo was very rare

 

Stu

[Ian J.]

OT, but I remember once being on an Cross Country service from Poole to somewhere, but I was getting off at Bournemouth (loved being able to use CCs as local transport!). The train was made up of thirteen (13!) Mark 1s and was a relief service to a previous train if I remember correctly.

 

It had a single 33/0 on the front.

 

Fortunately there were virtually no passengers on board, but even then I remember looking at the timetable and noticing the scheduled stops at Parkstone and Branksome, and thinking 'Parkstone might be fun'.

 

It was.

 

The driver of the Crompton had real trouble getting the train started again off Parkstone. It took several minutes and quite a bit of huffing, puffing, and what-not to slowly climb the section of the bank after the station, at which point he was able to get the train moving only to have to stop at Branksome! Starting from there of course wasn't a problem as I think there's a slight down gradient out of the station Eastwards.

 

And through all of this I was sitting in the final carriage, a downgraded FO, so comfy seats and all

Edited June 18, 2016 by Ian J.

[4630]

. 

Edited November 12, 2016 by 4630

[Southernman46]

Even when electrification was finally authorised to Weymouth it was a "cheap" scheme with greater than normal distances between track paralleling and substation inputs and which to this day restricts the service to 8 cars (2x450) or a single 5-car 444.  Pairs of 5Wes / 442 units and pairs of 444 units are not permitted except under controlled circumstances to Poole and only beyond if no other electric train is operating in the area.  12-car trains (3x450) remain banned.

Agreed - we also considered using aluminium conductor rail to extend the sub - sub distances even further.

 

The grid intake site at Redlands (nr Weymouth) was also a limiting factor in the level of power we could take - so the rectifiers are 1.5MW instead of 2.5MW

 

We also laid HV cable off Parrot wagons during the day between service trains - imagine the palaver trying to do anything like that these days

 

My abiding memory of the scheme was being in Bincombe tunnel (yes you could do that back then) by a Bristol bound DMU grinding up the hill and almost asphyxiated by the clag .........................

 

- scary that this is all 27 years ago now ......................

 

Hats off the Kernow - it might be £270 but the development cost must be huge on a model like this ............ plus I shudder to think at the ham-fisted cods I'd make of trying to make my own - even with the correct brass overlays - Colin Parks I ain't ..................

Edited June 18, 2016 by Southernman46

[steve1023]

Stationmaster - Just curious now - was the announced model that you saw, or was it something different?

 

Pre-ordered original blue & earlier blue/grey variant - I may come back for a NSE version later-on.

[stewartingram]

If any non-Southern region fans want an excuse, the charter blue pair (410/417) did several railtours off their usual Southern region stomping ground.

 

24/7/93 we had 33116 / 410 / 417 on "The London Orbital" railtour - Blackfriars to Fenchurch St via Strood, Nuneaton and Ipswich!

 

 

Just looking at pics of these, I can also find shots (on different tours) at Kidderminster, Welshpool and Barnstaple! 

I don't mind you finding pics like that, just make sure they aren't in East Anglia and early days!

 

Stewart

[stewartingram]

Before saying it is expensive take a £3 10s coach in about 1968, its value now against income would now be £125, and a range from £51.10 to £145.40, which covers a basic inflation figure of £51.10 to a cost of living version at £145.40.

 

The £3 10s coach would in no way compare to the production standards these days, and yet the Bachmann is called expensive........

Model Railways were always an expensive luxury for most people, and still are for most buyers these days, yes, we can ask for value for money, but I think we overlook inflation and just blaming the makers for the prices is not being in touch with reality.

 

The unit looks good, and covers a gap in the market nicely for lots of users.

 

Stephen.

 

A very well stated bit of reasoning. Time to close the argument about prices.

 

Stewart

[Southernman46]

Anyone planning to do the Frankenstein 4-VEP with S76302 (?) at one end ....................

 

Always a welcome discovery during Kent commutes ...................

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=4-vep+with+4-TC+coach&rlz=1T4GGHP_enGB590GB591&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiyof7d3rHNAhVDtxoKHc_lASkQ_AUICCgB&biw=1079&bih=589#imgrc=9QBy9cQvUZwTRM%3A

Edited June 18, 2016 by Southernman46

[The Stationmaster]

Stationmaster - Just curious now - was the announced model that you saw, or was it something different?

 

Pre-ordered original blue & earlier blue/grey variant - I may come back for a NSE version later-on.

 

It was the announced model - a first shot of one of the driving trailers (or whatever the SR call them), at the ally Pally show (but not for public consumption).

[The Evil Bus Driver]

I'm looking forward to it. Something to go with my 33/1. Looks like I have time to save up too.

[phil gollin]

.

 

I really hope that Kernow have a success with this choice - it is certainly a brave choice as it doesn't involve Southern Region green liveries.   IF it is a success, then there might be a real hope for a class 455, the workhorse of the third-rail since the early 80s, with large numbers of optional liveries.

 

So all you people who wanted a 4TC, buy lots, and we might get a Class 455.

[Kelly]

.

 

I really hope that Kernow have a success with this choice - it is certainly a brave choice as it doesn't involve Southern Region green liveries.   IF it is a success, then there might be a real hope for a class 455, the workhorse of the third-rail since the early 80s, with large numbers of optional liveries.

 

So all you people who wanted a 4TC, buy lots, and we might get a Class 455.

 

With Bratchell Models offering a 455/8 and 455/9 (OK, they're not RTR, but are painted already), Kernow (or anyone else) would have to be really sure they'd get their investment back, and in these troubled times they might not wish to perhaps. They might well be better following on with a 4REP to complement the 4TC and other similar units.