Crinan

[luckymucklebackit]

I Googled up "The Vital Spark" to compare the boat used on the TV series and it appears that there were two disctinctly different boats used.  One was used in the original series, the other in the later remake.  Spot the difference between the two!!

 

 

So it appears that the funnel could be ahead of the bridge, or behind the bridge!

Jim

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by luckymucklebackit

[Signaller69]

50 minutes ago, luckymucklebackit said:

I Googled up "The Vital Spark" to compare the boat used on the TV series and it appears that there were two disctinctly different boats used.  One was used in the original series, the other in the later remake.  Spot the difference between the two!!

 

 

So it appears that the funnel could be ahead of the bridge, or behind the bridge!

Jim

 

Hi Jim, hope you are well and settled in the new place. 

 

Yes, I did a bit of digging on Wikipedia, I'm not currently sure of the original vessel used as "Vital Spark". The third BBC series of Para Handy used VIC27, which was "Auld Reekie". This vessel is the oldest surviving coal fired Puffer and was at Inverary Maritime Museum until 2006 when it was sold to a new owner and is apparently currently being restored.

 

To complicate matters further, the current "Vital Spark" at Inverary is VIC72 (formerly "Eilean Eisdeal" renamed 2006 as "Vital Spark of Glasgow") and is still sailing.

 

VIC32 has been based at Crinan since 1979 and substantially modified for its role as a holiday touring vessel. As I model 1970ish it is thus not really suitable in its modified form.

 

The Puffers were built in groups of 3 apparently, and do display quite a few differences such as the Bridge being straight on top of the deck with the funnel behind, as well as the more usual format of a Bridge atop a cabin area with funnel either fore or aft.

 

Thanks,

Martyn.

[runs as required]

From dim and distant memories (from a 1953 cycling holiday) I'd favour the thinner one forward of the wheelhouse:

a)

because it must be pleasantly quirky to have to peer around that re-assuringly smokey little stayed stack

b)

more importantly, I remember Puffers looking a bit high out of the water at the bow when steaming empty in rough water. I'd have thought they'd  benefit from having the boiler and engine as far forward as possible.

 

I recall a very pleasant afternoon taking with you at Shildon when you said you'd just made that purchase

Best Wishes

dh

Edited March 23, 2020 by runs as required
typos

[brylonscamel]

4 hours ago, Signaller69 said:

Yes that is a possibility Stu, or cut the base off at a slight angle maybe.

 

I wonder actually, if the funnels on these were partly decorative, with a smaller chimney inside them? They all seem to look quite large for such a low powered, presumably fairly small boiler?

They seem to vary a lot in photos I've seen and wonder if some chimneys were fitted with an outer sleeve to help separate the hot inner chimney from wooden structures and from putting the heat directly into the face of the skipper?

Mind you, in the era in which these were designed, there wasn't a lot of thought given to the comfort of crew! I read a bit about the steam trawlers of the North Sea and they seemed like the hardest places on earth to work! Like steam powered submarines ... minus the comforts!

 

[Signaller69]

2 hours ago, runs as required said:

From dim and distant memories (from a 1953 cycling holiday) I'd favour the thinner one forward of the wheelhouse:

a)

because it must be pleasantly quirky to have to peer around that re-assuringly smokey little stayed stack

b)

more importantly, I remember Puffers looking a bit high out of the water at the bow when steaming empty in rough water. I'd have thought they'd  benefit from having the boiler and engine as far forward as possible.

 

I recall a very pleasant afternoon taking with you at Shildon when you said you'd just made that purchase

Best Wishes

dh

Thanks for your kind comments, it is very enjoyable chatting to people at shows. As the kit has now been sitting around for a while, and without other distractions open to me, I thought it was time to crack on.

 

I will be keeping the "funnel forward" arrangement, but think I am going to build a whole new cabin/bridge to slightly larger dimensions than the kit one.

 

Cheers,

Martyn.

[Signaller69]

1 hour ago, brylonscamel said:

They seem to vary a lot in photos I've seen and wonder if some chimneys were fitted with an outer sleeve to help separate the hot inner chimney from wooden structures and from putting the heat directly into the face of the skipper?

Mind you, in the era in which these were designed, there wasn't a lot of thought given to the comfort of crew! I read a bit about the steam trawlers of the North Sea and they seemed like the hardest places on earth to work! Like steam powered submarines ... minus the comforts!

 

Can't say I would have relished that particular lifestyle Brian!

 

Possibly of interest to you, some later, diesel powered "Puffers"(?) were built at Bowling:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pibroch_(vessel)

 

Not sure if any survive.

 

Martyn.

[Signaller69]

I have been doing a bit more digging and decided to base my model on Vic27, "Auld Reekie" which became the "Vital Spark" in the 1994 series of "The Tales of Parahandy" with Gregor Fisher. Mainly because post WW2 until the 1970s it was used as a youth training vessel so could conceivably have been seen at Crinan. (Indeed this was the vessel which is featured in so many photos of Crinan, where it languished after filming until moved to Crinan Boatyard for restoration).

 

I take back my presumption that the Puffer boilers would have been small, they were huge for such a small vessel, being 6-7ft in diameter, and a very tight fit in the boiler room. History and photos of this vessel and its ongoing restoration, including fitting the brand new boiler and wheelhouse can be found here:

https://vic27.co.uk/

 

Well worth a read for anyone interested in the Puffers.

 

As the cabin on my kit only scales to about 6ft wide it is clearly too narrow so this area will indeed need to be re-made from plasticard, possibly using some parts of the resin kit castings where appropriate.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Signaller69

[lezz01]

Looking at those pics Martyn. That funnel is about 50% over scale so you'll have to do something about that as well.

Regards Lez.

[Signaller69]

3 minutes ago, lezz01 said:

Looking at those pics Martyn. That funnel is about 50% over scale so you'll have to do something about that as well.

Regards Lez.

Hi Lez, yes it is on the to do list, appropriate sized plastic tube should do the trick.

 

Thanks,

Martyn.

[Signaller69]

I stumbled on another good website dealing with "Auld Reekie" with some useful photos (which look to be 1960s/early 70s, showing a different bridge door arrangement to that fitted by the 90s) and history:

 

http://iancoombe.tripod.com/id23.html

 

It also has a photo of the "Saxon" which was believed to be the last commercial Puffer in use and was the vessel used in the 60s version of Parahandy.

 

Hopefully have photos of the kit replacement cabin/bridge later.

[Signaller69]

The basics of the new Wheelhouse and Engine Room are getting there, the kit version can be seen in a couple of the photos for size comparison:

The Wheelhouse sides were marked up as one long strip, with the windows being cut out and internal corners scored with a V profile before being shaped and glued to the floor with Mek Pak. The front has a slight curvature as per prototype. The door position is as per the Ian Coombe photos. Window framing has just been applied. The roof will be made next, but left loose until the model has been painted and glazed. Also need to find suitable tube for the funnel and get that fixed in place before adding further detail.

 

More soon.

[Signaller69]

Some more detail added:

The original funnel was 15mm diameter, the replacement is 10mm diameter tube which looks about right from photos, so as Lez said it was probably about 50% oversized.

[lezz01]

See that looks much more realistic than that big thing it came with! Good job mate!

Regards Lez.

 

[Signaller69]

The decks have been covered with plasticard, as this vessel had non-slip flooring rather than planking. The hold has had its cover fixed in place (a tarpaulin over planks on the real thing) and I'm currently messing around with the mast.

The small square holes in the wheelhouse are where the steering chain was routed down to deck level either side via pulleys, and under covers to the exposed rudder, the tiller of which had a mesh walkway over it. The filled patch will have detritus and the walkway to disguise it.

 

Much of the small detail will be applied following painting. 

[runs as required]

On 27/03/2020 at 13:27, Signaller69 said:

Some more detail added:

The original funnel was 15mm diameter, the replacement is 10mm diameter tube which looks about right from photos, so as Lez said it was probably about 50% oversized.

Bravo!

Love the stays

dh

[Signaller69]

Paintwork is progressing slowly and needs to be completed before I can start adding all the small details. As can be seen further coats are needed. Colour scheme is based off the various Ian Coombe photos mentioned above plus a later colour photo; Auld Reekie seems to have undergone several hull repaints over the years so I have gone with red only at the base of the hull; later this was extended much higher. Similarly the wheelhouse seems to have been plated in Ian's photos where later it featured wooden planking (possibly installed for use in the 90s Parahandy episodes).

Brass tubing will be used for the removable mast, which locates into another glued into the hull.

When in use for youth training, what appears to be a scaffold frame (again shown in Ian's photos) was fitted around the hold, presumably to secure the several small boats, which were used for activities, atop the hold cover.

[lezz01]

Very nice mate! 

Regards Lez.

[runs as required]

The times l have stopped while passing, i have always fantasised about the perfect holiday stoking a puffer.

An Australian who was doing just talked to me in detail on one occasion . He was most persuasive about life aboard when not simply sweating down below in that tiny engine room. I seem to remember a sort of open atrium in the hold with curtained bunks around the edge like a US Pullman, with a central mess table and chairs.

 

The prob that remained unresolvable was my dear wife - who didn’t even like overnighting in our bay window Dormobile!

Would you consider an alternative transparent sunbathing roof over the hold that visitors could peer through?

[Signaller69]

10 minutes ago, runs as required said:

The times l have stopped while passing, i have always fantasised about the perfect holiday stoking a puffer.

An Australian who was doing just talked to me in detail on one occasion . He was most persuasive about life aboard when not simply sweating down below in that tiny engine room. I seem to remember a sort of open atrium in the hold with curtained bunks around the edge like a US Pullman, with a central mess table and chairs.

 

The prob that remained unresolvable was my dear wife - who didn’t even like overnighting in our bay window Dormobile!

Would you consider an alternative transparent sunbathing roof over the hold that visitors could peer through?

I think you are probably correct regarding the hold being reconfigured with bunks, dining table and presumably a galley area; crew living area was in the Bows traditionally. With Auld Reekie, accounts say that the usual crew of 4 was down to 2 when used as a youth training vessel, with guests bring required to "work their passage" as it were. The Vic32 had portholes fitted along the top sides of the hold to allow light in, but there is no evidence of this on Auld Reekie/Vic27. The hold cover in photos appears to be the standard Puffer arrangement of heavy planks (similar to Railway sleepers) with a waterproof fitted tarpaulin over the top, which it seems to have retained until restoration started a few years ago.

Also, on the model the hold has plain slab sides so it would require more work than I wanted to do to get this area to look authentic. It will however have 2 or 3 boats on top of the cover as per photos, and probably some youths enjoying themselves doing chores!

 

[Signaller69]

Taking a break from the Puffer, I have mainly been working on Crinan related Motive Power for the past 3 weeks. My Bachby green class 29 has been modified from 6121 to 6123 as the first 29 conversion, which retained its disc headcodes. Seen posed on Dunnington.

My Dapol model of 6114 has become 6133, mainly for individuality but also because it retained the small yellow panel into 1971. Both locos have had their differing light green upper bodysides repainted with Railmatch Sherwood Green 

I have also built a Plasser Duomatic 06-32 Tamper, for which I hope to fit Crinan with a manual lift & turn mechanism (the real things used a jacking mechanism to turn them).

Transfers have since been fitted, further photos will follow when complete. 

 

I have now returned to "Auld Reekie", more of which in the next post.

[Signaller69]

Returning to the Puffer then, I dug out the soldering iron and made some handrails and the wheelhouse access ladder which were sprayed with white primer and fixed in place. Steerage chains were added leaving the wheelhouse down the side of the engine room.

 

After more checking of photos, the mast has been soldered up from brass tube, rod and wire (plastic tube was included in the Peedie kit but I opted for metal on the grounds of greater knock & transit survivability). Small wire loops have been added to allow threading of winch ropes later. The top stay is brass handrail wire soldered into place, the loose end will be fixed at deck level.

Apologies for the poor final photo, which only serves to show the mast fitted. The boom (or derrick?) tip could rest on a stay on the boiler house roof on the real vessels, when not in use; it obviously had to reach the far end of the hold for loading and unloading.  The only problem I have now is that I have realised it looks substantially shorter on Auld Reekie in the timescale I am modelling, when it was only used for lifting small rowing boats from atop the hold into the sea and vice versa (and typically, in all of them it is at about 50° to horizontal). However later photos show a full length version, correctly stowed as mentioned above, which is what I based mine on. As the whole mast is removable though, I can change it if further evidence comes to light.

[davknigh]

A suggestion If I may? The boom should be free to move in all directions both vertical and horizontal and the fitting you have made looks a bit limited that way. This link may be helpful:

http://freeshipplans.com/free-model-ship-plans/clyde-puffer-lochinvar/

It should be like the boom on a sailboat. There is also a link showing helpful suggestions here:

https://scalescenes.com/product/t030b-clyde-puffer/

Look under "Additional Puffer rigging and detailing..." just above the illustrations.

 

HTH

 

David

[saxokid]

1 hour ago, Signaller69 said:

Returning to the Puffer then, I dug out the soldering iron and made some handrails and the wheelhouse access ladder which were sprayed with white primer and fixed in place. Steerage chains were added leaving the wheelhouse down the side of the engine room.

 

After more checking of photos, the mast has been soldered up from brass tube, rod and wire (plastic tube was included in the Peedie kit but I opted for metal on the grounds of greater knock & transit survivability). Small wire loops have been added to allow threading of winch ropes later. The top stay is brass handrail wire soldered into place, the loose end will be fixed at deck level.

Apologies for the poor final photo, which only serves to show the mast fitted. The boom (or derrick?) tip could rest on a stay on the boiler house roof on the real vessels, when not in use; it obviously had to reach the far end of the hold for loading and unloading.  The only problem I have now is that I have realised it looks substantially shorter on Auld Reekie in the timescale I am modelling, when it was only used for lifting small rowing boats from atop the hold into the sea and vice versa (and typically, in all of them it is at about 50° to horizontal). However later photos show a full length version, correctly stowed as mentioned above, which is what I based mine on. As the whole mast is removable though, I can change it if further evidence comes to light.

Very impressive work again Martyn

[Signaller69]

8 hours ago, saxokid said:

Very impressive work again Martyn

 

8 hours ago, davknigh said:

A suggestion If I may? The boom should be free to move in all directions both vertical and horizontal and the fitting you have made looks a bit limited that way. This link may be helpful:

http://freeshipplans.com/free-model-ship-plans/clyde-puffer-lochinvar/

It should be like the boom on a sailboat. There is also a link showing helpful suggestions here:

https://scalescenes.com/product/t030b-clyde-puffer/

Look under "Additional Puffer rigging and detailing..." just above the illustrations.

 

HTH

 

David

Thanks chaps!

 

David, thanks for your suggestions. I have a Scalescenes version printed off somewhere but have never got around to it as yet. I have seen some which have been very nicely made.

 

The scale plan is useful, I had completely forgotten about it due to adapting the Peedie models kit. There was of course a huge amount of variation in size and fitting s among puffers and VICs, (moreso in their later lives) as shown in this photo at Crinan: note booms resting on the aforementioned stays atop the engine room cabin in all cases, and similarity of mast heights:

(Photo credit

 http://www.tradboat2.co.uk/sourcepages/clydepuffers/clydepuffersource page.htm )

 

As for the mast, I may rebuild it completely yet to more accurately reflect the modified boom apparently fitted to "Auld Reekie" by 1969. The BBC heading photo shows the pivot arrangement nicely: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06s5n0f 

Which suggests the boom could simply be lifted out and replaced quite quickly if needed.

 

Cheers,

Martyn.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Signaller69
Add to info.

[Signaller69]

Whilst considering the mast, I put an order in to "The Model Dockyard" for all sorts of bits including some small rowing boats, a ships wheel, lifebelts and various pulleys, rigging thread etc, which arrived today. Excellent service!