Jazz 7mm Workbench

[LaScala]

I see what you mean, ( the other side are straight)   As they are white metal I guess I had bent them with energetic cleaning  All is fine now, just a tweak with the pliers. (Thanks for spotting that.)

Had the same problem with my Springside 45xx.  They were so malleable that in the end I soldered some nickel silver waste etch onto the outside of each bar, far enough back to not be seen, and also onto motion bracket..

[jazz]

Hi all. Yes, I'm still here. This dock tank has been the reason for me being off air for a couple of weeks. It's the ACORN/MERCIAN joint venture kit. I did have high hopes that it would be a nice kit to build. Sadly that is not the case. I will not bore y'all with a blow by blow account of the problems but suffice it to say, It was a slow, difficult and very frustrating build.

Edited October 28, 2013 by jazz

[Kenton]

 

I will not bore y'all with a blow by blow account of the problems but suffice it to say, It was a slow, difficult and very frustrating build.

I for one would not have been bored by the account.

 

One of the best things about build reviews on RMWeb is the documentation of "problems and issues" with kits and importantly how they were overcome.

 

It goes a long way in preventing others falling headlong into the same pitfalls, or worse, abandoning a project in total bewilderment on how to proceed.

 

I also have the high hope that the manufacturer/designer of the kit takes notice and makes some effort to design such problems out of their kit (or the next one at least) - wishful thinking.

 

Is it me, or should it be, a gap between the top inside of the tanks?

[JeffP]

 I for one would not have been bored by the account.

 

One of the best things about build reviews on RMWeb is the documentation of "problems and issues" with kits and importantly how they were overcome.

 

It goes a long way in preventing others falling headlong into the same pitfalls, or worse, abandoning a project in total bewilderment on how to proceed.

 

I also have the high hope that the manufacturer/designer of the kit takes notice and makes some effort to design such problems out of their kit (or the next one at least) - wishful thinking.

 

 

Couldn't agree more.

[jazz]

Kenton, not sure what you are reffering to regarding the tanks. This a a photo of them.

 

I will have to get back to the issues with the build. I have to get on with the Gladiator GCR 0-8-4 'Daisey' tank.

[Kenton]

 

Kenton, not sure what you are referring to regarding the tanks. This a a photo of them.

 

Probably just me and my lack of knowledge of the prototype but the side on photo seems to suggest a larger gap

I was expecting there to be no gap at all here (lest anything - tools - on the top of the tank falling behind it!)

[jazz]

I see what you mean now. No, that is how the protype photos show. (I guess in 1928 Mr Fowler did not consider tools etc dropping down the gap)

[kada33]

 I for one would not have been bored by the account.

 

One of the best things about build reviews on RMWeb is the documentation of "problems and issues" with kits and importantly how they were overcome.

 

It goes a long way in preventing others falling headlong into the same pitfalls, or worse, abandoning a project in total bewilderment on how to proceed.

 

I also have the high hope that the manufacturer/designer of the kit takes notice and makes some effort to design such problems out of their kit (or the next one at least) - wishful thinking.

 

Is it me, or should it be, a gap between the top inside of the tanks?

Hi Kenton and all

 

I had this discussion with the suppliers of the Springside Models a while ago, but was told that most of their kits are around 30years old, the designer is no longer with us and they (two brothers) don't have the capability to put any mistakes right.

in either the kit or the instructions. But there are still selling kits! So you end up as I have with having to modify & scratch build to make the parts fit. (and how many  times have we seen this said)

 

Kada33 (Dave)

[Kenton]

 

I had this discussion with the suppliers of the Springside Models a while ago, but was told that most of their kits are around 30years old, the designer is no longer with us and they (two brothers) don't have the capability to put any mistakes right.

in either the kit or the instructions. But there are still selling kits! So you end up as I have with having to modify & scratch build to make the parts fit. (and how many  times have we seen this said)

 

Dave, thanks for the addition history lesson.

 

However, I have to disagree in part. Anyone with the original drawings has the possibility of revising them (in particular re-draughting them to CAD) but having the desire to do so is another thing. Of course someone else could do that - but then it would be another designer's kit.

 

The instructions are another thing all together. These are only typed documents with hopefully useful diagrams. If a part has been found not to fit, requires addition or even scratch building then this can be discovered during a professional build and the resolution documented into the instructions.

 

I still have this belief that selling a kit in the full knowledge that the parts do not go together to form what it is claimed to be on the box is at best underhand and misleading.

 

Any way no matter how useless the box of parts is as a kit seeing how these parts can actually be put together is of immense help to those that may then have an educated chance of following in experienced steps. Or can decide not to waste money on the particular kit and place in the pile beyond redemption. Sometimes it is simply the process rather than the actual parts that causes problems.

[jazz]

Now, back to the Dock Tank. This is a brief summary of the worst of the problems.

 

Starting with, as always, the chassis. This was going well, adding the brake gear, (all left loose so to swing into place when the wheels were added), until it came to adding the made up cylinder unit and slide bar support unit after adding the wheels. (I keep the wheels in the packets as long as possible on a build and then I only unpack one set for testing clearances)

 

It soon became evident these two units where not wide enough, leaving no clearanes for the valve gear. I cut the cross braces and added a spacer to each. Checking the units would fit between the valances.  Then I discovered the slide bars where too short and the slots where in the wrong places for the cylinders to line up with the smoke box. (I did not discover that until the body was under way)

 

So it was a case of unsoldering it all and cutting new slots to realign everything on the chassis.  I extended the slide bars with a little packing at the ends and behind the piston casting.  Complete new sets could have been scratch built for a fastidious build.

 

The body did not fair very well either.  The boiler , firebox and smoxbox formers were useless.  I packed out the firebox formers with thin strips of brass. It was found that the firebox front corner fillers were far too small. I just filled the large gaps with low melt solder and filled them to shape.  The boiler formers were cut to a smaller diameter and the smokebox front had to be made much larger.  Then Modifications had to be made to the cab front to allow the unit to fit into the under size hole into the cab. The backhead casting then, fortunately, was the correct size to fit the enlarged firebox.

 

The boiler was also too long but that was easy to just slice off the excess. A bit of adjustment was required to get the firebox and smokebox to sit in a perfect horizontal plane.

 

The bunker folded up and was found be too narrow so did not line up with the tanks. So I unfolded it and removed the sides packing them out to the correct width.

 

Then it was found the top of the bunker was way too low after fitting the cab rear to the bunker top. So again a filler strip had to be added to bring the rear and front spectacle plates to the same height. Thankfully the tanks did fold up correctly.

 

When the body was finally fitted onto the chassis it was found the ecentric crank was fouling the footplate. I did a quick fix by cutting off the tops of the crank as the valances hide the fact they are missing a bit off the tops.

 

All in all quite a bit of time wasted altering things to make them fit. The model does eventually look like the prototype though.

 

I'm pleased to say the Gladiator Daisey has gone very nicey today, so very pleased with myself this evening

Edited October 28, 2013 by jazz

[Kenton]

Oh dear my sympathies - that sounds like one big box of trouble. Even worse with the wasted time, I hope the customer is suitably appreciative. Though the end result is probably worth the effort - far too much for my liking - I'll add that kit to the "don't you dare" pile.

[Sandy Harper]

You did well on that one Ken!

Sandy

[jazz]

Thank you Sandy.     I guess if all kits were perfect 'shake the box and out comes a model' life would become a bit boring. I't's just some are a little more of a challenge than others.

[PAD]

I have just mentioned similar sentiments in my Black 5 thread, but this could just be a "kit too far". As usual you have made a superb model in spite of the failings of the kit.

[jazz]

OK, now for something completely different. A first on my WB, the LNER 0-8-4T nicknamed a Daisey.   Strange name for what was the most powerful loco of it's day.

 

This is going extremely well. All parts fitting perfectly.

 

[jwealleans]

A Wath Daisy! Fantastic.

[JeffP]

Was it an S1? Frodingham had two of those for works trains in the late 50's.

[jazz]

Yup, the LNER classed it as S1. The GCR an 8F Wath Daisey.

[Jack P]

That's a stonking great tank engine!

[jazz]

Hi again.  Just a quick update, sort of.   Just back from 18 days working on our daughters house in Florida and now it's back to the WB.  Photos and updates shortly. (When I get over the jet lag!!)

[JeffP]

Photos of her house?

[jazz]

If you want to see them, Jeff.  I meant the model on the WB though

Edited November 27, 2013 by jazz

[Jon Fitness]

Oh dear my sympathies - that sounds like one big box of trouble. Even worse with the wasted time, I hope the customer is suitably appreciative. Though the end result is probably worth the effort - far too much for my liking - I'll add that kit to the "don't you dare" pile.

Wish I'd known that too..I have one in the box waiting to be done! Wonder if the up-coming Agenoria version will be any better!

JF

[Jon Fitness]

Now, back to the Dock Tank. This is a brief summary of the worst of the problems.

 

Starting with, as always, the chassis. This was going well, adding the brake gear, (all left loose so to swing into place when the wheels were added), until it came to adding the made up cylinder unit and slide bar support unit after adding the wheels. (I keep the wheels in the packets as long as possible on a build and then I only unpack one set for testing clearances)

 

It soon became evident these two units where not wide enough, leaving no clearanes for the valve gear. I cut the cross braces and added a spacer to each. Checking the units would fit between the valances.  Then I discovered the slide bars where too short and the slots where in the wrong places for the cylinders to line up with the smoke box. (I did not discover that until the body was under way)

 

So it was a case of unsoldering it all and cutting new slots to realign everything on the chassis.  I extended the slide bars with a little packing at the ends and behind the piston casting.  Complete new sets could have been scratch built for a fastidious build.

 

The body did not fair very well either.  The boiler , firebox and smoxbox formers were useless.  I packed out the firebox formers with thin strips of brass. It was found that the firebox front corner fillers were far too small. I just filled the large gaps with low melt solder and filled them to shape.  The boiler formers were cut to a smaller diameter and the smokebox front had to be made much larger.  Then Modifications had to be made to the cab front to allow the unit to fit into the under size hole into the cab. The backhead casting then, fortunately, was the correct size to fit the enlarged firebox.

 

The boiler was also too long but that was easy to just slice off the excess. A bit of adjustment was required to get the firebox and smokebox to sit in a perfect horizontal plane.

 

The bunker folded up and was found be too narrow so did not line up with the tanks. So I unfolded it and removed the sides packing them out to the correct width.

 

Then it was found the top of the bunker was way too low after fitting the cab rear to the bunker top. So again a filler strip had to be added to bring the rear and front spectacle plates to the same height. Thankfully the tanks did fold up correctly.

 

When the body was finally fitted onto the chassis it was found the ecentric crank was fouling the footplate. I did a quick fix by cutting off the tops of the crank as the valances hide the fact they are missing a bit off the tops.

 

All in all quite a bit of time wasted altering things to make them fit. The model does eventually look like the prototype though.

 

I'm pleased to say the Gladiator Daisey has gone very nicey today, so very pleased with myself this evening

Hi Jazz, Sadly I have one of these to do so I've printed off all this and put it in with the instructions in the box!!

Cheers

JF

[jazz]

Hi. Back to the WB at last. The Daisey continues. We now have a rolling chassis, complete with a monster motor. No real issues, just the usual clearance issues with the crossheads. I packed out the cylinders and slide bar supports using a thick washer and 20thou nickle off cuts. Plus shaved a little off the coupling rod at the leading wheels ends. There is now a fair bit of clearance. The leading and second axle has no side play, the rear two axles have limited side play. All except the rear axle with the motor attached is sprung. Ith will easily negotiate 6' radius with room to spare. (It's a lonh chassis)

 

Now onto the body.