Road Rail Tank and Chassis

[Fat Controller]

Over the past few days, I've been looking around for companies that used these. Interesting fact is that the large variants were meant to carry insulated tankers, which I didn't even know existed. From Mike's site: "By the late 1930's a few articulated insulated tank trailers were in use (with the LMS and LNER), carried in pairs on six wheeled rail chassis. These were insulated and heated (via a dynamo on the six wheeled 19'wb 30'oh chassis) and were used for cargo such as seed and whale oils, which flow more easily when warm." I was aware that the larger 19' wheelbase variant existed, but did not know that they had a generator to keep the tanks insulated. 

 

Attached is my model of the standard 16' wheelbase wagon. Apparently, Guinness was the first to use 3-axle tank trailers?

 

Ron

That's a lovely bit of modelling- what scale is it? All the milk tankers and trailers were insulated, having a vitreous-lined steel tank, wrapped in insulation, which was then held in place by aluminium cladding. I'd heard of cooling units driven by axle-mounted systems on Interfrigo wagons, but wasn't aware of them being used on tank traffic. I wonder where these wagons worked to and from?

[Evertrainz]

That's a lovely bit of modelling- what scale is it? All the milk tankers and trailers were insulated, having a vitreous-lined steel tank, wrapped in insulation, which was then held in place by aluminium cladding. I'd heard of cooling units driven by axle-mounted systems on Interfrigo wagons, but wasn't aware of them being used on tank traffic. I wonder where these wagons worked to and from?

Thanks for the compliment, they're virtual scale :-) . I've modeled this in Blender, for which, if I had enough money to build a real layout, I would 3D-print out. However, I'm building this model for a railway simulator at the moment.

 

I'm not sure where these heated tank trailers ran through, nor do I know if such tankers even existed, in the case of said 'whale oil' tanks.

 

I see, in the GW Wagon Appendix, pictures of blank/unmarked grey tank trailers, would the whale oil and other odd products be loaded into generic-liveried trailers? Or, did every product have an established tanker with logo? A little too late to ask that, I suppose.

 

Happy St. Patrick's Day, Ron

 

(Don't go overboard on the Guinnesses!)

[PhilJ W]

A little information about how the wheelbase of multi wheeled road vehicles is measured. On the six wheeled tankers the wheelbase is measured from the centre of the front wheel to a point midway between the centres of the rear wheels with the wheelbase of the rear bogie marked in brackets and BC after the figure like this 10'(4'BC). The reason for this was so that fitters when adjusting and setting the Ackerman steering geometry could adjust it correctly.

EDIT Sorry its not BC but DD (for Double Drive)

Edited March 17, 2016 by PhilJ W

[Evertrainz]

A little information about how the wheelbase of multi wheeled road vehicles is measured. On the six wheeled tankers the wheelbase is measured from the centre of the front wheel to a point midway between the centres of the rear wheels with the wheelbase of the rear bogie marked in brackets and BC after the figure like this 10'(4'BC). The reason for this was so that fitters when adjusting and setting the Ackerman steering geometry could adjust it correctly.

EDIT Sorry its not BC but DD (for Double Drive)

That's an interesting bit of info, I'll be sure to keep that in mind.

 

Applying this, the 3 different sizes of Rotank are:

 

•9'9"(6'6"DD) : 2-axle tank trailers

•12'(8'DD) : 3-axle tank trailers

•13'9"(9'6"DD) : 3-axle heated tank trailers

 

The rendered image in my previous post is of the 2nd size above.

 

Ron

[PhilJ W]

That's an interesting bit of info, I'll be sure to keep that in mind.

 

Applying this, the 3 different sizes of Rotank are:

 

•9'9"(6'6"DD) : 2-axle tank trailers

•12'(8'DD) : 3-axle tank trailers

•13'9"(9'6"DD) : 3-axle heated tank trailers

 

The rendered image in my previous post is of the 2nd size above.

 

Ron

It only applies to three axle vehicles with two non-steering axles. For example a 10' (4'DD) would give an overall wheelbase of 12'.

[jjnewitt]

It only applies to three axle vehicles with two non-steering axles. For example a 10' (4'DD) would give an overall wheelbase of 12'.

Presumably though this system doesn't apply to three axle vehicles where there was no articulation? The 13' and 16' wheelbase ro-rail trailers were rigid with just a little side play on the centre axle.

 

Justin

[The Bigbee Line]

I have a copy of drawing D13/3659 dated 26 Aug 1959 for the 'body arrangement road-rail beer tank whitbreads'  Its the wagon part only; 2 axle 10' wheelbase, 17'6" over headstocks.  Anyone interested?

I am struggling for internet at the moment so might be slow in responding.

[edcayton]

Over the past few days, I've been looking around for companies that used these. Interesting fact is that the large variants were meant to carry insulated tankers, which I didn't even know existed. From Mike's site: "By the late 1930's a few articulated insulated tank trailers were in use (with the LMS and LNER), carried in pairs on six wheeled rail chassis. These were insulated and heated (via a dynamo on the six wheeled 19'wb 30'oh chassis) and were used for cargo such as seed and whale oils, which flow more easily when warm." I was aware that the larger 19' wheelbase variant existed, but did not know that they had a generator to keep the tanks insulated. 

 

Attached is my model of the standard 16' wheelbase wagon. Apparently, Guinness was the first to use 3-axle tank trailers?

 

Ron

 

Well I certainly thought it was a "real" model. May I point out that you appear to have omitted the drawbar equipment on the trailer?

 

Ed

[Evertrainz]

Well I certainly thought it was a "real" model. May I point out that you appear to have omitted the drawbar equipment on the trailer?

 

Ed

 

Ah, I'm aware that there is no drawbar, or license plate, or piping. The whole project is far from done, I'll pick up on it in the following hours, I've been busy the whole week. I'll also point out that I've omitted the screwlink shackles under either of the headstocks, as well as some of the shackles that go directly under the trailer drawbar. This is a limitation, as to have to create these would add more detail, which would cause the computer to stutter more.

 

Ron

[PhilJ W]

Presumably though this system doesn't apply to three axle vehicles where there was no articulation? The 13' and 16' wheelbase ro-rail trailers were rigid with just a little side play on the centre axle.

 

Justin

It may not apply in this case but it is used on all vehicles with two (or more) rigid, ie non-steering axles. In the case of these trailers the front axle is on a turntable and is therefore a 'steering' axle giving articulation.

[jjnewitt]

It may not apply in this case but it is used on all vehicles with two (or more) rigid, ie non-steering axles. In the case of these trailers the front axle is on a turntable and is therefore a 'steering' axle giving articulation.

 

Apologies. I missed the fact that you were talking about the road trailers rather than the rail wagons. It all makes sense now!

 

Justin

[Evertrainz]

Does anyone know if Guinness had depots or breweries that would have to be accessed via the WCML? Looking for an excuse to sneak these unique wagons in ;-) . Any publications with shots of these wagons in other traffic flows? I read on Mike Smith's site that these were used for access to Guinness depots far in places such as Plymouth or South Wales?

 

[Fat Controller]

Does anyone know if Guinness had depots or breweries that would have to be accessed via the WCML? Looking for an excuse to sneak these unique wagons in ;-) . Any publications with shots of these wagons in other traffic flows? I read on Mike Smith's site that these were used for access to Guinness depots far in places such as Plymouth or South Wales?

 

Rotank_Guinness_R3.jpg

I wonder how Guinness from the Dublin brewery used to be imported for distribution in the northern part of Britain? The tank-trailers from Park Royal would probably gone to whichever regional brewers had the concession to bottle the stuff.

[PhilJ W]

Does anyone know if Guinness had depots or breweries that would have to be accessed via the WCML? Looking for an excuse to sneak these unique wagons in ;-) . Any publications with shots of these wagons in other traffic flows? I read on Mike Smith's site that these were used for access to Guinness depots far in places such as Plymouth or South Wales?

 

Rotank_Guinness_R3.jpg

Rule 1 applies.

[PhilJ W]

I wonder how Guinness from the Dublin brewery used to be imported for distribution in the northern part of Britain? The tank-trailers from Park Royal would probably gone to whichever regional brewers had the concession to bottle the stuff.

Guiness had a small fleet of coastal tankers and they also used tanktainers but the latter may not have been used for overseas journeys.