Castle Aching

[Nearholmer]

You are right about that being ‘Ritzebuttel’, sorry. I’ve corrected the post.

 

For a definitive answer on which ‘cowes’ went where, I suggest looking in the IRS county handbook, rather than Bradley, but I only have the handbooks for southern counties, so can’t help directly.

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Northroader]

Here’s the relevant bit from “Bradley-the Adams classes”

[Nearholmer]

Can we broaden this, to include other LSWR ‘old crocks’, because they had an interesting collection, including an England 2-4-0T, ex Somerset and Dorset I think, some MWs, and some locos that looked very like Caledonian Pugs, as produced in infinite quantities by Hornby for use in starter sets? 

 

A model inspired by one of the LSWR harbour branches could have some very interesting locos, as well as interesting architecture and boats ...... it’s actually a very tempting idea for a ‘compact’.

[brack]

Interesting, dad has the irs books, so I'd have to ask him.

The dates mentioned for both shanks' cowes and the black hawthorn are very similar. Plenmeller colliery closed 26 may 1932 according to durham mining museum, who are usually decent on their records, which doesn't quite tally with Bradley, but it is perfectly plausible that sections of the colliery and associated tramways closed earlier as the little limestone seam worked out. Plenmeller common was opencasted a few years ago and the site of the colliery has been a plastic bottle factory for years (went round it twice on school trips) so there isn't much left on the ground.

Sorry for diverting things - I'm from haltwhistle, so it piqued my interest.

 

The LSWR picked up a decent amount of odd stuff, I'd certainly be interested to see what else they had.

[Northroader]

RBesides the LSWR locomotive department fleet, in Southampton there was the tramway, and also the Docks, which seemed to do their own thing, and then there was the Civil Enginers department,  who had the usual superiority complex over the locomotive engineer, and were allowed their own small fleet to run engineering trains, so as you remark, Kevin, they did have more than their fair share of wrecks.

Here’s the first six of the fleet, George England, 1857-61:

Edited September 29, 2019 by Northroader

[Buhar]

Very appropriately named locomotives, although none seem particularly linked to the L&SWR or to Southampton.

 

Alan

[runs as required]

How would the prosecution  furnish accurate evidence about tram way speed ? (Reference to extract from Bradley above on raising of tramway speed from 2mph in 1865 to 5mph in 1881)

I often wondered about that along the Dock road  in Liverpool - and in particular the sight of a great Royal Scot creeping across the road with ia long train from Euston and along beneath  the Overhead Railway to the MDHB covered terminal station at the landing stage. Id have loved  that bit of the trip to Montreal.

dh

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Buhar said:

Very appropriately named locomotives, although none seem particularly linked to the L&SWR or to Southampton.

 

Alan

 

The London & Southampton has the hallmarks of a Locke line - gradient profile like a roof and elimination of the originally-proposed long summit tunnel (a Stephenson feature). He was picking up someone else's pieces in this case so it's not quite as pure Locke as the Lancaster & Carlisle or Caledonian. He did bring Thomas Brassey in to replace many small local hopeless contractors.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Compound2632

[Nearholmer]

RaR

 

By use of a stopwatch to time trams over a known distance. They might have hired-in Mr Rous-Marten for the job.

 

The tramway speed at Southampton, and likewise Liverpool, may have been set by a very specific requirement in the Act that permitted construction, or by local bylaw.

 

Pinning down BoT tramway requirements I've found to be exceedingly difficult, the subject is much harder to understand than BoT railway requirements. The Victorian text book on tramway legislation in Britain (which includes the tramway legislation unique to Ireland) runs to over 600 pages of small print!

 

But, I do know that the Tramways Act 1870, the key (dis)enabling legislation, allowed local authorities to make bylaws to cover specific tramways, which could include specific speed limits, the relevant passage being as follows:

 

"Subject to the provisions of the special Act authorising any tramway and this Act,

The local authority of any district in which the same is laid down may, from time to time, make regulations as to the following matters:

The rate of speed to be observed in travelling upon the tramway :............."

 

K

 

PS: now, talking of Mr Rous-Marten, this is really interesting to pre-groupers http://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-52019982/view;?partId=nla.obj-52019996 its rather like Ahrons, before Ahrons.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Compound2632]

10 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 

The rate of speed

 

 

What is this "rate of speed"? Speed is the rate of change of distance (along the trajectory of the object), or if one must, the "rate of motion"; a rate is a quantity of of something relative to a quantity of something else: metres per second, pounds per dollar, trains per hour.

 

Clearly a provision so ill-worded is unenforceable?

Edited September 29, 2019 by Compound2632

[Nearholmer]

Miles per hour, per tram?

[Compound2632]

12 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Miles per hour, per tram?

 

I think when you refer to a rate you have to mention both variables for there to be any meaning.

 

I'm not sure what one would do with speed per tram as a measured quantity - plot a histogram of number of trams measured travelling at various speeds and observe that some trams go slower or faster than others? Surely the legislation is concerned with the speed of any one particular tram, rather than the average speed of trams en masse. At least that's the way those average speed cameras are used - I won't get let off for averaging 60 mph through a section of motorway works limited to 50 mph, just because some other fellow only averaged 40 mph. Although carbon offsetting seems to work that way. I should probably go to bed.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Compound2632

[Donw]

37 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I think when you refer to a rate you have to mention both variables for there to be any meaning.

 

I'm not sure what one would do with speed per tram as a measured quantity - plot a histogram of number of trams measured travelling at various speeds and observe that some trams go slower or faster than others? Surely the legislation is concerned with the speed of any one particular tram, rather than the average speed of trams en masse. At least that's the way those average speed cameras are used - I won't get let off for averaging 60 mph through a section of motorway works limited to 50 mph, just because some other fellow only averaged 40 mph. Although carbon offsetting seems to work that way. I should probably go to bed.

 

It would be quite interesting go through with a cycle race or the local pony trotting club. 

I think the term rate of speed is just the old way of saying how fast actually rather than slow, moderate fast, very fast and bl00dy hell.  I think Lord Kelvin had a dictum along those lines, about only measurements in terms of numbers being satisfactory.

 

Don

[corneliuslundie]

Surely our managing director can answer the question about rate of speed.

I wonder what Brunel thought about having a "narrow gauge" engineering dept engine named after him!

Jonathan

[Edwardian]

Track painted and laid. A little adjustment required. Wire droppers soldered. If only I could find a controller ....

 

 

 

[Northroader]

 Picking up the story about LSWR oddity’s with bits out of Bradley, I gather the CCE loco fleet came about because originally track maintenance was done under contract by Brasseys, and when it was decided that the work would be done in house, the increase in demand was too much for the loco department to cover. After the first eight, the fleet built up with another two left over from a cancelled Russian order, more going to the Cal.R. There was also a small England 2-4-0T, which worked at the engineers Wimbledon depot before getting lent to the Bodmin and Wadebridge, another small 0-4-0t replacing it at Wimbledon. Originally the fleet was maintained and repaired by England’s, and when they went bust, Robert Fairlie took over, before it was decided it would be a lot cheaper for the LSWR to do it at Nine Elms, with various rebuilds and reboilerings being done. The fleet expanded in 1875 with two 2-4-0 and two outside frame 0-6-0 from Stephensons which the locomotive department had gained on offer, and had been used for regular traffic before going to the CCE.

Then the fleet was expanded in 1878 with three 2-4-0s bought from the SDJR, and these were also drafted in at a later date after first being used on general traffic work. (That’s a nice little engine, isn’t it?) (Edit. P.s. George England comes to the West Norfolk?)

In 1888, an incoming CCE decided that having his own loco fleet was too much hassle, and it was agreed that what had survived would go onto the loco duplicate list, and the ones requiring heavy repair were scrapped in the next few years. The last survivor was the little 2-4-0T built by England’s in 1861, to my mind a real cutie, which lasted to 1909, working the Lee on Solent line. When you think of the number and size of locos going to Bournemouth, then realise the Lee on Solent traffic was left to this engine, you realise the hopes and dreams of the developers there for a seaside resort were doomed, pleasant little town as it is?

Edited September 30, 2019 by Northroader

[Compound2632]

27 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Track painted and laid. A little adjustment required. Wire droppers soldered. If only I could find a controller ....

 

Very Barnstaple Town...

[Nearholmer]

Edwardian

 

Good progress; what is the controller issue?

 

Kevin

[Edwardian]

10 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Edwardian

 

Good progress; what is the controller issue?

 

Kevin

 

Thanks.

 

I have a natty little Bachmann controller, courtesy of Visiting Dignitaries, who were fearful that my childhood H&M Duette might cause their Stirling Single to explode.  They very kindly said 'have this on us, 'cos they only cost about a tenner, but they're actually quite good".  As I was very much in the midst of Castle Aching: The Hungry Years, I gratefully accepted the donation. It struck me that it would be ideal for this test track. 

 

Now I need to find where I put it!

[Northroader]

Tip A, if you’re after a controller, don’t get them second hand at a bring and buy, 

Tip B, agreed, it is starting to look like Barnstaple, and if ever you’re there, there’s an excellent

            railway book stall in the Pannier Market with real treasures at good prices.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Northroader

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

I have a natty little Bachmann controller, courtesy of Visiting Dignitaries, who were fearful that my childhood H&M Duette might cause their Stirling Single to explode.

 

I can understand that the Dignitaries might be apprehensive of the Brunel era Duette.  I've found that the basic Bachmann controllers are much better than the Hornby equivalents. Even the DCC one!

 

[sem34090]

'Scuse my ignorance, but what is all this from our honourable host about a test track?

 

And for that matter, what of Castle Aching?!  

[Hroth]

18 minutes ago, sem34090 said:

'Scuse my ignorance, but what is all this from our honourable host about a test track?

 

And for that matter, what of Castle Aching?!  

 

I hope he hasn't gone all George Hudson, projecting and merging lines all over the place....

 

 

 

[Edwardian]

28 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

I can understand that the Dignitaries might be apprehensive of the Brunel era Duette.  I've found that the basic Bachmann controllers are much better than the Hornby equivalents. Even the DCC one!

 

 

Ironically, after this visit, a certain P Parker Esq announced that he'd had another of the precious review samples running for hours on a rolling road .... powered by a Duette!  

 

I am informed that those little Bachmann trainset controllers are very good; it's one of those that i have  ... somewhere.

 

The Visit was documented Here

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, sem34090 said:

'Scuse my ignorance, but what is all this from our honourable host about a test track?

 

And for that matter, what of Castle Aching?!  

 

I became fed up of the lack of anything working, so have built said test track over the top of my desk in the office at Edwardian Towers!

 

CA remains semi-derelict in the shed. 

[Compound2632]

10 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

CA remains semi-derelict in the shed. 

 

"Semi-derelict" implies decay, having seen CA recently I'd say that's unduly pessimistic. The block to progress, as I understand it, lies in lack of success in forming a reliable bond between ABS chairs and the ply sleepers used for the bullhead pointwork. 

 

They're very handy, those Bachmann controllers.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Compound2632