Castle Aching

[Nearholmer]

Are you sure that’s the unveiling of a fountain, not the commemoration of the removal of a statue of Aphrodite, which had been erected in the niche by a little-known sect of pagan cowherds?

[Wolseley]

9 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Are you sure that’s the unveiling of a fountain, not the commemoration of the removal of a statue of Aphrodite, which had been erected in the niche by a little-known sect of pagan cowherds?

 

When I read that, the first thing that came to mind was Tony Hancock's film, "The Rebel", where Hancock plays a disillusioned office worker with aspirations to be a successful artist but, regrettably, no talent in that direction.  Near the start of the film, he is seen working on a monumental sculpture, "Aphrodite at the Waterhole" or, as his landlady calls it, "That great ugly thing here".

[Edwardian]

Thanks to Brother Schooner for his pictures of Gloucester market.

 

There would be towns that still held livestock markets in market places within the town.

 

Thame:

 

 

Skipton, 1906:

 

I thought that a good way to boost its size and status of Birchoverham Market would be to make it a principle livestock market, where the Victorians had needed to move the market outside the town centre and construct dedicated facilities where there was more room to do so.

 

I did a survey of examples on the interweb a while back. Gloucester shows most of the typical features of such sites that any model show aspire to include:

 

- Nice stout masonry walls surrounding.  Gates will have some architectural merit, the main gate might have a gate lodge building.

 

- Most of the area is covered with open pens

 

- There is often an opened sided shed structure

 

- There is some form of central office building. There can be an indoor auction space, but this does not seem to be an essential. 

 

Here, for example, is Peterborough in 1904 (is that an electric light?!?):

 

Kettering:

 

Wakefield:

 

Lincoln:

 

Darlington:

 

Monmouth:

 

Brecon, taken from the Brecon & Merthyr, the bridge abutment in shot on the right:

 

I could go on, and will no doubt when I find the pictures I saved a while back (now somewhere on a dying desktop).

 

In the meantime, a pertinent example for CA, in terms of scale, period and location, is Fakenham. Previously located in Wells Road, this new Cattle Market was opened in 1857. 

 

This ties in well with the opening of the original WN line, CA to the Birchoverhams, in 1855, ans, so, Fakenham's market might serve as a model for us.

 

 

 

 

It's not that far from the town centre. Thus, for BM one could imagine a sequence top left to bottom right of town square, cattle market, railway. We would reflect that location with perspective modelling/backscene to the extent space permits. 

 

The really attractive feature of the Fakenham site that, at least I would like to capture is the double gate, with its sweeping curved walls and central pavillion, seen at the bottom of the aerial view:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ianathompson]

Thanks for the views of Fakenham. 

As Downham football team are playing there tomorrow I might visit the town centre.

The football, rugby and cricket grounds are on different sites at the edge of town, nowadays.

Being a philistine these are the places that I tend to visit.

 

I shall be interested to see what they have made of the town centre rebuild.

There was a disastrous fire a few years ago which destroyed the shops on the north side of the market.

 

Ian T

[Edwardian]

1 minute ago, ianathompson said:

Thanks for the views of Fakenham. 

As Downham football team are playing there tomorrow I might visit the town centre.

The football, rugby and cricket grounds are on different sites at the edge of town, nowadays.

Being a philistine these are the places that I tend to visit.

 

I shall be interested to see what they have made of the town centre rebuild.

There was a disastrous fire a few years ago which destroyed the shops on the north side of the market.

 

Ian T

 

Yes, that would be interesting. If you take any snaps ....

 

 

[Caley Jim]

At Lanark there was a dedicated livestock loop siding running on the opposite side of a back street from the market giving almost direct access to the market.

https://maps.nls.uk/view/82893816

 

The market has now moved to a modern building, with the lairage fully indoor, on the outskirts of the town.

 

Jim

 

 

[Schooner]

Is that the loop alongside Whitelees Road? Are those additional livestock pens in the Southern-most siding (NNE of Portland Place) or allotments/something else altogether?

 

Huge railway development between 1860s and 1900, but then no real changes till the 50s. Both formats are interesting, but the former is delightfully useful as model railway inspiration. Thanks for the steer!

[ianathompson]

9 hours ago, ianathompson said:

As Downham football team are playing there tomorrow I might visit the town centre.

 It would appear that this game was transferred to a 19.45 kick off on Friday evening.

No notification etc from the League website.

The league's communications seem to be run by a bunch of cretins.

 

Following over 2 inches of rainfall in the last week it was, unsurprisingly, cancelled.

There will, unfortunately, be no photos of Fakenham's rebuild by tomorrow night!

 

Ian T

[Caley Jim]

3 hours ago, Schooner said:

Is that the loop alongside Whitelees Road? Are those additional livestock pens in the Southern-most siding (NNE of Portland Place) or allotments/something else altogether?

It is indeed.  Earlier maps show just an embankment there, but you can still see the landing alongside the road, either from the road itself or a train.  There was a gate in the back wall of the market through which livestock could be driven.  This was the inspiration for part of my Kirkallanmuir layout.

The market will be on the backscene behind the wall.

Yes, these were pens just off Portland Place.  As far as I can tell there were no pens on the landing itself, but there were probably hurdles which could be used to guide the beasts.   All this was gone by the time I came to the area.

 

Jim

[Schooner]

13 hours ago, Edwardian said:

I would not touch them in the low grade, but the manufacturer, when asked, has made carriages available in better grades. Shapeways is still brutually expensive overall and in value for money terms.

 

Does anyone buy from Shapeways anymore?! I note that on @rue_d_etropal's (found you, hello!) website mention is made of the sale of the .stl files for home (/cottage?) printing. This is a much more attractive approach to my eye, and wallet, although greatest convenience is when decent printers offer the work of decent designers direct. Thanks Gary, more power to your elbow!

 

11 hours ago, Edwardian said:

It's not that far from the town centre. Thus, for BM one could imagine a sequence top left to bottom right of town square, cattle market, railway. We would reflect that location with perspective modelling/backscene to the extent space permits. 

Hmmm then I think we can find you a little more s[ace, as long as the carriage dock can be shifted? Something like

that?

 

It's not much, but allows a move of the TT away from the backscene which in turn means gaining up to c.14' of low-relief-or-better scenic length around the two sides.

 

As a very (very) rough scenic check to see if it meets/makes room for the brief as I understood it:

 

For calibration, the 'terraces' can, at full depth on the RH end, take these

with an 8ish foot alley running along the 'back' (facing the operating aisle). The cattle dock previously used two of these as a guide

but that can be almost doubled if brought towards the turnouts as shown, giving a siding length above 7" (good for 8+ cattle wagons?)

 

Market option 1 looks the most straightforward, but option 2 would, I think, make the most of the long viewing distance to the corner; the backscene angle helping the sense of false perspective

and allowing the continuation of the narrative, with out-of-town industries (tannery and slaughterhouse seem two likely options) giving way to an old hall or barton beyond the goods yard and away towards AM Jnc. Perhaps. A view from the operator's position in the modern world, through the heyday of the railways and all-round Golden Age, and back in time to the medieval (or as desired!) as one looks into the corner. If that doesn't give a sense of perspective then what will?!

 

The trialed view on the other side is more traditionally Railway:

Framed by goods shed and station builing to one side, and on the other the overbridge (which could be expected to end the scene, making the bonbon of carriage shed and branch scene extra tasty), platforms and sidings, SC and TT, and a row of railway cottages or whatever. The Brave New World end.

[Edwardian]

15 minutes ago, Schooner said:

 

Does anyone buy from Shapeways anymore?! I note that on @rue_d_etropal's (found you, hello!) website mention is made of the sale of the .stl files for home (/cottage?) printing. This is a much more attractive approach to my eye, and wallet, although greatest convenience is when decent printers offer the work of decent designers direct. Thanks Gary, more power to your elbow!

 

Hmmm then I think we can find you a little more s[ace, as long as the carriage dock can be shifted? Something like

that?

 

It's not much, but allows a move of the TT away from the backscene which in turn means gaining up to c.14' of low-relief-or-better scenic length around the two sides.

 

As a very (very) rough scenic check to see if it meets/makes room for the brief as I understood it:

 

For calibration, the 'terraces' can, at full depth on the RH end, take these

with an 8ish foot alley running along the 'back' (facing the operating aisle). The cattle dock previously used two of these as a guide

but that can be almost doubled if brought towards the turnouts as shown, giving a siding length above 7" (good for 8+ cattle wagons?)

 

Market option 1 looks the most straightforward, but option 2 would, I think, make the most of the long viewing distance to the corner; the backscene angle helping the sense of false perspective

and allowing the continuation of the narrative, with out-of-town industries (tannery and slaughterhouse seem two likely options) giving way to an old hall or barton beyond the goods yard and away towards AM Jnc. Perhaps. A view from the operator's position in the modern world, through the heyday of the railways and all-round Golden Age, and back in time to the medieval (or as desired!) as one looks into the corner. If that doesn't give a sense of perspective then what will?!

 

The trialed view on the other side is more traditionally Railway:

Framed by goods shed and station builing to one side, and on the other the overbridge (which could be expected to end the scene, making the bonbon of carriage shed and branch scene extra tasty), platforms and sidings, SC and TT, and a row of railway cottages or whatever. The Brave New World end.

 

Yes, very much that sort of thing

[Edwardian]

There is a long headshunt on the plan. What is it for and do I really need it?

 

If we lost the cattle siding and moved the south box, say to the platform end, shortened the headshunt a bit and built the cattle dock along side, we could have something like:

 

 

 

[Edwardian]

Latest acquisitions for the WNR courtesy of Oak Hill Works and their super fast delivery. So thanks to Tom and Gary for some excellent product. And, thanks to Gary and his dash to the post office, the prints arrived this morning, in the same post as the Hornby A1 Terrier purchased to provide the donor chassis. This latter had partially disassembled itself in its clam-shell, so British Leyland build quality there by Hornby, but the chassis was sound.  

 

The Manning Wardle H Class I had thought of for an Aching Constable works shunter. I like very small locos in ridiculously ornate Victorian liveries and anyone who, like me, grew up poring over pictures of contractors' locos on the GC London Extension published in a little book by Leicestershire Musems, will understand what I mean. A works shunter is probably the best excuse the WNR will funish. I can only assume some pretext will be found for running it to Birchoverham Market, from time to time.

 

The print is a perfect fit for the Hornby Peckett W4 chassis; it is merely necessry to clip off two protruding diecast lugs either side of the front of the motor. Screw holes line up. In contrast, the Neilson box tank print (a different supplier, I hasten to add), required a lot of fettling to achieve the correct height from the rails and for the smoke box to sit forward enough to line up with the cylinders. By contrast, the Oak Hill Works H Class is well designed and engineered. It's as near to RTR as something that isn't RTR! 

 

The Fletcher Jennings Class J, I first considered for the Norfolk Minerals Railway, but eventually realised (I like to think I'm not usually that slow) that it was an ideal goods loco for the WNR, and much better than the overbearingly large Beyer Peacock/LSW 330 Class.  This print, too, was an ideal fit, requiring only the sawing off of a short length of the end of the Terrier chassis, Again, screw holes line up nicely, although the Hornby screws, one of which had stopped working properly even while still in use to secure the Hornby body, are too short to be of much use. 

 

In the case of the Class J, back head and buffers are yet to be added. In both cases tool/sand boxes need to be added. All these components are supplied.  All in all some really well-thought out and executed bodies adapted to RTR chassis to represent some very charismatic Victorian proptotypes. What more could a chap with a minor railway need?

 

 

[BlueLightning]

Glad they arrived safely!

 

I must get around to putting the lining and nameplate on my MW H, I got it, built it, and painted it before Hardy's stopped, so it's probably about time to get the transfers on

 

Gary

[TurboSnail]

17 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

The print is a perfect fit for the Hornby Peckett W4 chassis; it is merely necessry to clip off two protruding diecast lugs either side of the front of the motor. Screw holes line up. In contrast, the Neilson box tank print (a different supplier, I hasten to add), required a lot of fettling to achieve the correct height from the rails and for the smoke box to sit forward enough to line up with the cylinders. By contrast, the Oak Hill Works H Class is well designed and engineered. It's as near to RTR as something that isn't RTR! 

 

The Fletcher Jennings Class J, I first considered for the Norfolk Minerals Railway, but eventually realised (I like to think I'm not usually that slow) that it was an ideal goods loco for the WNR, and much better than the overbearingly large Beyer Peacock/LSW 330 Class.  This print, too, was an ideal fit, requiring only the sawing off of a short length of the end of the Terrier chassis, Again, screw holes line up nicely, although the Hornby screws, one of which had stopped working properly even while still in use to secure the Hornby body, are too short to be of much use.

 

I'm glad they fit well - that's something I spent a lot of time and test print effort on.

 

I did a set of transfers for the Manning Wardle using the same technique I described the other day, I have since sold this model on but I think it came out reasonable well, barring some issues with the red shading on the text.

 

[Edwardian]

Some more pictures. I am very happy with these two ...

 

 

... and find they fit in well with other WNR locos.

 

 

When I saw the LSWR 330 Class next to the other WNR locos during the Christmas loco testing round, I realised it was just too large, and it was this that prompted me to take the plunge with the Fletcher Jennings.  It can be seen how the new loco is much more in proportion with other WNR motive power, while its Victorian looks will fit well with what is primarily a stud of 1860s-1880s machines (yes, I know there's an 1840s looking one there too, but that's the NMR for you!).

 

 

 

 

 

Below, the Fletcher Jennings next to the Fox Walker, showing that the former, while still a fairly small loco, represents a slightly larger goods engine compared with the diminutive Light Railway maid-of-all-work.

 

 

 

I thought it would be interesting to compare the Neilson box tank (NMR) with the Manning Wardle (WNR) given they both use the same donor chassis (Hornby W4 Peckett).

 

 

 

[Schooner]

13 hours ago, Edwardian said:

What is it for and do I really need it?

Refuge siding, and no idea! Your proposed alteratin is both elegant and sensible.

 

It was a suggestion a while back when traffic came up (on the back of AC Jnc alteration I think), which does have some merit in being able to get goods (or branch) services out of the way if the Down line/branch platform needs cleared. Refuge sidings are a pretty common feature but rarely modeled - most of us barely have space for a platform! - so I thought it a nice modelling touch, as well as a gentle aesthetic shift from the scenic run into the railway facilities of BM. Hard for me to say whether that would actually be true, though!

 

I've also found it handy as a Down exchange siding, there being no direct Down access to the aisle-side goods facilities (currently). This allows trains to make decent time through the station and the BM shunter to deal with the wagons at leisure, both of which might be handy.

 

Not essential though, starting as one of those 'I wonder if it'll fit' options. It does, and I don't see why the cattle dock can't stand at its head so it's an easy option to add/remove as you go.

 

13 hours ago, Edwardian said:

we could have something like:

Can't wait to see it, with your skills it's going to be something very special indeed.

 

WNR fleet simply wonderful. Wondering desperately a) how to justify an 0-6-0 and b) why Terriers and Electotrens are so flaming expensive!

 

Non-loco shunting was briefly touched on not long ago. I needed to retrieve a van which had been loose shunted under cover, in order to couple it to an outbound train. This happened:

which worked remarkably well. Just thought I'd pop it in here as a possible middle-way between having to get loco access everywhere and avoiding hand contact with rolling stock.

 

Loving the recent updates, very much looking forward to the next ones :)

 

PS: The 'Fox Walker' vs the 'Fletcher Jennings' - which is the better performer?

 

 

Edited January 7 by Schooner
Sp!

[Edwardian]

Posrscript on Bachmann Junior locos...

 

Perhaps someone in Spain can confirm or deny, but I reckon that both locos in this Ibertren train set will prove to be using the Bachmann Junior 0-6-0 chassis.

 

 

[Skinnylinny]

Having watched a video review of the set (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcpEcEKlreg) it certainly appears to be the Bachmann Junior chassis (albeit DCC fitted), and the steam loco is a rather cute caricature of the same loco offered by Electrotren/Jouef:


However, in my search for details, you've alerted me to this rather pretty looking thing, also from Ibertren in h0 scale, which I dare say has a rather bashable chassis for something freelance... a long-boilered mineral engine, perhaps?

 

Edited January 7 by Skinnylinny

[Northroader]

On 03/01/2024 at 23:29, Nearholmer said:

Not strictly CA, but I think Edwardian and the parishioners might know the answer better than anyone:

 

Hypothetically, asking for a friend, that sort of thing, if one wanted to buy a 00 loco, as in buy, not spend ages building from a kit or from scratch, to work an independent minor railway set pte-WW1, a bit up the ladder from an 1896 LIght Railway, other than a Terrier or the planned MW L Class, what could one obtain?

 

I’m not well up on 00 models, but having scadded through the adverts in the RM, I can’t see anything. The pre-grouping locos that are available seem to be either very big, very modern for the period, or so obviously company specific. Maybe the Adams Radial?

Er, Kevin, this friend of yours, you could tell him of a chat we were having some time ago, which might convince him of the way forward? (And a picture which has survived the Great Photo Crash!!!)

 

 

Edited January 7 by Northroader

[Edwardian]

21 hours ago, Skinnylinny said:

Having watched a video review of the set (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcpEcEKlreg) it certainly appears to be the Bachmann Junior chassis (albeit DCC fitted), and the steam loco is a rather cute caricature of the same loco offered by Electrotren/Jouef:


 

 

Yes, and I note that the Ibertren version actually has an outside cylinder moulded to the body to reflect this protoype, yet, of course, the Bachmann Junior chassis stolidly ignores this!

 

I never paid more than £50 for these Elctrotren units, I am amazed at how stupid expensive they have become; may as well buy a Heljan 1361 clsass for the chassis. 

 

[Schooner]

 

15' and (particularly) 30' minutes marks should be compulsory watching for KR Models...

 

 

 

[Edwardian]

35 minutes ago, Schooner said:

 

15' and (particularly) 30' minutes marks should be compulsory watching for KR Models...

 

 

 

 

I think a skilled manufacturer should have been able to do a better job with Bellerophon's motion than KR has managed. That said, the Ibertren model did not have to cope with the extremely long and spindly radius rod on Bellerophon, which might have proved a rod too far for any manufacturer. 

 

[Donw]

It would seem Hattons are closing down I had an email. There is supposed to be a sale but the website is not responding. If anyone is hoping to purchase Hattons items there may be problems.

 

Don

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, Donw said:

It would seem Hattons are closing down I had an email. There is supposed to be a sale but the website is not responding. If anyone is hoping to purchase Hattons items there may be problems.

 

Don

 

I don't think there is anything I want, save for the pre-ordered batch 2 Genesis coaches, which I understand will probably still be honoured (due May on last information) and the Bluebell P Class, which may not now be produced (but an indulgent extravagance, the loss of which cannot, therefore, be too greatly regretted).

 

Sad news, and I should have liked to see the Genesis short bogie coaches produced.