Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

40 minutes ago, Donw said:

 

My suggestion to move the passing loop up to the junction would have achieved that and with the extra sidings could actually keep goods traffic out of CA apart from the stuff directly for CA. helping to relieve presure on CA .

 

Don

 

Where, exactly, if you don't mind?

[Donw]

9 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Here is a first go at the new scheme, benefitting from the more generous footprint of a purpose-built shed, filling the land available.

 

I am not entirely happy, but it does help to illustrate my point; it allows me, by using three stations and two cassette yards, to represent:

 

(1) The Achingham Branch

 

(2) The rest of the WNR system

 

(3) The system's links to the GER and M&GN (there is even a short length of the M&GN, as it joins near Massingham, i.e. between Castle Aching and Birchoverham Market.

 

 

As the platform at CA (est. 53" max.) effectively limits train lengths, all trains must be under 4'6", hence the cassette yards need to be this length also. 

 

To relate the layout plan to the system map:

 

 

Thoughts, corrections, suggestions etc welcome.

 

 

Well your plan seems to have fudged a little because the Achingham , Birchoverham and from Aching Constable all join fairly close together  but the M&GN line splitting from the Birchoverham occurs a bit further north. However allowing that to be altered  wee could move the passing loop round the curve so that the three lines join at one end of the loop and the Achingham comes in at the other end. two or three sidings off the loop would allow wagons to be sorted  This would be out in country. I am minded a bit of Holt which was the junction of the Devizes line and the Trowbridge line. Holt had no access from the surrounding countryside  but actually even had a platform so passengers could change from one line to another. I would actually stick to no platform and just a bit of goods marshalling as it wouldn't matter if it encroached a bit visually on the other stations.

 

I  envisage a freight from Norwich arrives with wagons for Wolf.... , Birch.., Lyn, Ach and CA.  The wagons apart from the CA ones go into the sidings . The loco departs with a few for CA.  A some time a train from Birch will arrive leaves its forwading wagons and collect any for Birch and possibly Fakney and returns and so on during the day all interrupted by passenger trains passing through.

 

Don

 

ps I have assume little goods marshalling is done at AC  mostly done here but you could assume some was done there to reduce the ammount needed here makes it practicaal to adjust how busy it would be.

pps Goods trains for Achingham  would have to back in and  out due to the lie of the junction.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Donw
adding pps

[Edwardian]

What was the reason why my little station at CA became overburdened?

 

Well, it was a function of the original plan that was to include just CA, and a junction leading (1) to the branch to Achingham and (2) to a cassette yard for everything else.

 

The trouble was, I wanted everything from everywhere else to run on the layout.  That meant arranging the WNR's system so that:

 

(1) In addition to Achingham, branches from Wolfringham and Bishop's Lynn also converged on CA; and,

 

(2) All the through traffic off the GER and MGN had to come to CA and reverse out (it wants to get to the resort at Birchoverham-Next-the-Sea, not CA)

 

(3) Worse, I then got above myself and decided the WNR should strike south to penetrate Suffolk at Bury St Edmunds and east, to race the Lynn & Fakenham into Norwich. All this traffic, too, now needed to reverse at CA.

 

Here is the (now old) map, showing how the lines were arranged to satisfy the greed of the Castle Aching layout operator:

 

 

 

All this traffic was great for the layout, but would have completely overwhelmed the modest facilities at CA and there would have been insufficient hours in the day to run all the trains in and out of it, as has rightly been pointed out.

 

The idea of reversing everything at CA was always a rather artificial constraint.

 

Birchoverham Market (BM) is supposed to be the WNR's Big Station. Everything should go there. I've no problem with that station having whatever layout it would need to handle the traffic, all the traffic, of the system.  Because the Northern branches run to BM, if I modelled it and CA, between the two, all WNR traffic, pretty much, would be seen on the layout, but the weight of it would be transferred to BM.

 

This requires re-drawing the map.  Massingham Magna has been deleted ("Magna" isn't very Norfolk, and it was one station too many). I have, however, added Wofringham St Felix, as discussed elsewhere. 

 

 

 

The pertinent changes are that:

 

(1) At Aching Constable, there is now a triangular junction:

 

•   The new connection running north means that WNR Norwich and Bury traffic, and GER through services to B-N-t-S can proceed straight to BM, missing out CA

 

•   The southern connection is retained. It allows (sparse) traffic to come off the Wolfringham branch to CA. It also allows a local GER stopping service to run to CA, as opposed to the expresses and semi-fasts bound for the coast.  See, I can't help myself.  It also probably means I need a shuttle service between CA and Aching Constable. Sometimes his could be a tram service running through to CA. CA will still be busy, therefore.

(2) The MGN junction now points north, allowing CA to be bypassed.

 

There can, of course, be excursions to CA off the GER and the MGN. But these would be once in a blue moon specials (with trains off the MGN reversing at BM), not daily services. 

 

Here is the full system in revised form. Eagle-eyed viewers of the new maps will see that I have now added a goods only chord at Norwich, as discussed elsewhere:

 

 

This means that the crucial junction at Aching Constable will now resemble this:

 

 

This changes the volume of traffic at CA:

 

Passenger:

 

- Birchoverham Market - CA - Achingham - CA - Birchoverham Market: 2 services

- Birchoverham Market - Aching Constable - CA - Aching Constable - Birchoverham Market: 2 services 

- Birchoverham Market - CA - Birchoverham Market: 2 direct services 

- Norwich - CA - Birchoverham Market - Birchoverham-Next-the-Sea - CA - Norwich

- Bury - CA -  Birchoverham Market - Birchoverham-Next-the-Sea - CA - Bury

- CA - Achingham - CA: 4 services 

- Bishop's Lynn - Aching Constable - CA - Aching Constable  - Bishop's Lynn: 2 services 

- Magdalen Road (GER) - CA - Birchoverham-Next-the-Sea - CA - Magdalen Road (GER)*

- South Lynn (MGN) - CA - Birchoverham-Next-the-Sea - CA - South Lynn (MGN) **

- Magdalen Road (GER) - Aching Constable - CA - Aching Constable - Magdalen Road (GER): 1 service 

 

Goods:

- Daily Aching Constable - CA - Birchoverham Market - CA - Achingham and reverse

- Livestock (Achingham Market days only)

- Minerals from Wolfringham (RasR)

 

For most days that is two services an hour at CA for a 7-hour period. Still busy, but not, I hope, too much.

 

The main implication is that, in order to represent all the traffic, domestic and foreign, that I would like, a fully realised model of BM would need, somehow, to be included in the scheme.  

 

In sketch form, something like this:

 

 

However, I don't even want to think about the real estate that would occupy, so, back to square one ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Edwardian
spelling

[Compound2632]

Perhaps you want to think of Castle Aching as the Leighton Buzzard - Linslade equivalent in a larger scheme, if you're going to have the shed. 

[Edwardian]

45 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Perhaps you want to think of Castle Aching as the Leighton Buzzard - Linslade equivalent in a larger scheme, if you're going to have the shed. 

 

Indeed, yes.

 

Implications for goods traffic

 

I think in this scheme, the extensive goods facilities are given to BM.

 

Goods incoming from the GER, Norwich, Bury, and Bishop's Lynn and goods and minerals from Wolfringham Staithe or Norfolk Minerals, all take the north junction to proceed straight to BM.

 

As far as CA is concerned, it is for the staff at BM to sort out any goods for CA and Achingham at BM's yard, and dispatch a daily goods to CA, reversing to Achingham after shunting CA traffic, and then back the other way.  

 

So, that gives us one daily goods.

 

On days where the livestock market is held at Achingham, an additional train goes from BM to CA and reverses there for Achingham, adding any livestock from CA.

 

What we end up with is the original 'mainline' terminus of the 1855 Castle Aching to Birchoverhams Railway in effect becoming bypassed by the expanded system so that, at least by the 1880s, it has subsided into a branch line terminus of the WNR, with the more populous Achingham as a branch off the branch with the effect that CA is still kept relatively busy, with more than just its own traffic to deal with.

 

 

 

 

[drduncan]

Erm, looking at the layout map (which I like) shouldn’t the junctions of single to single passenger lines be double junctions (ie line splits into double track before the junction and then singles again after it) like that at for example, Boscarne or Broom? I realise I’m probably wrong but it’s nagging at me....

Duncan

[Edwardian]

12 minutes ago, drduncan said:

Erm, looking at the layout map (which I like) shouldn’t the junctions of single to single passenger lines be double junctions (ie line splits into double track before the junction and then singles again after it) like that at for example, Boscarne or Broom? I realise I’m probably wrong but it’s nagging at me....

Duncan

 

comme ça?

 

 

 

[drduncan]

Exactly

[ianathompson]

29 minutes ago, drduncan said:

Erm, looking at the layout map (which I like) shouldn’t the junctions of single to single passenger lines be double junctions (ie line splits into double track before the junction and then singles again after it) like that at for example, Boscarne or Broom? I realise I’m probably wrong but it’s nagging at me....

It was standard practice but there were exceptions.

On my pre Grouping railway of choice, the GNoSR, Lossie Junction, just outside Elgin provides one example.

The branch for Lossiemouth split away from the Coast line with just a simple single turnout.

There are doubtlessly other examples, (which will soon surface I am sure!(

 

Ian T

[Donw]

I feel that modelling Aching Constable and Birchhoverham Market as well as CA and Achingham maybe a little too much for a one man effort even as industrious as you. I would tend to drop AC or Birch for the current thinking the other three will be quite enough to build and operate with cassettes for the other bits. I say this becuse I have some idea of what is involved and if it is too big you could find it a chore to operate rather than a pleasure.

 

Don

[TurboSnail]

Is there the possibility of making it a bit modular? Have maybe a board for each station, and a bunch of small straight, curved and y-split boards to connect it all together. That way you don't have to have enough space to put the whole lot up at once, and you also have an operable layout as soon as two stations are built - the rest can be built separately as and when the motivation is available and swapped in and out depending on what routes you want to operate that day.

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, Donw said:

I feel that modelling Aching Constable and Birchhoverham Market as well as CA and Achingham maybe a little too much for a one man effort even as industrious as you. I would tend to drop AC or Birch for the current thinking the other three will be quite enough to build and operate with cassettes for the other bits. I say this becuse I have some idea of what is involved and if it is too big you could find it a chore to operate rather than a pleasure.

 

Don

 

I don't have a space to attempt the scheme I sketched.

 

I can either adopt Tom's idea, which I like, of modules - in fact, I have planned modules for both Aching Constable and Bishop's Lynn- or, I could push out the very limit of the site for the shed and do something like this:

 

 

 

I would have to devise some reasonably extensive goods facilities for BM, accessible from all 3 lines converging there. 

 

I realise that a lot of space appears wasted, but I could put in a comfy chair and some cassette racks. 

 

It is, however, quite inconvenient to operate.  To run trains between CA and the cassette yard, I have to 'go next door' via a ling crawl-under.

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Edwardian

[Annie]

A magnificent plan James, but my knees and back immediately started to ache at the sight of that crawl-under.  When I was younger i was involved with helping to exhibit a large NZR layout that had crawl-unders and they got old very fast.

 

The comfy chair sounds good and don't forget a kettle for making tea.

[Hroth]

3 minutes ago, Annie said:

The comfy chair sounds good and don't forget a kettle for making tea.

 

I concur, another useful addition would be a small fridge to keep milk in for those cooler days, and for chilled beverages (of your choice) for summer. When it turns up...

 

3 hours ago, Donw said:

I feel that modelling Aching Constable and Birchhoverham Market as well as CA and Achingham maybe a little too much for a one man effort even as industrious as you. I would tend to drop AC or Birch for the current thinking the other three will be quite enough to build and operate with cassettes for the other bits.

 

"AC" reminded me of the device that the Revd Peter Denny employed (the Automatic Crispian") when his son couldn't help in running the layout.  AC was a sort of analogue sequencer and was described in Railway Modeller in the early 70s.  No doubt it could be emulated by using DCC and JMRI, but I would hesitate to suggest that our esteemed host attempt such a course...

 

[Donw]

The space wouldn't be wasted as there would be more plan track to enjoy the sight of a train running.  

 

The real snag is as you have said the access if you could sort of squeeze the tracks closer to each other where the exit from Achinham is a swing section  could be possible Mike Stanley had one on his 0 gauge layout with 10 tracks spread over two levels which worked well. And David Nicholson has one on his S7 layout.  but really you would need two operators or it would drive you nuts one to run CA and ACh... the other to do the cassttes and Birch... . I will have a ponder. 

[Donw]

I haven't drawn it up yet but this might work

 

CA as for original after coming round the curve the line to Achingham branches off  into an island terminus the main line disappears into a cassette yard  along the bottom the tracks for Birchingkam reappear round the corner  and  curve again into Birch.... across the top the exit tracks go off scene into a lift out across the doorway and then run under Ca and round to a low level fiddle yard below the other one. There has to be room to get round the end of Achingham to reach the fiddle yard . 

Yes you still have a lifting or liift out or swining section but it is none scenic and once inside you can reach all the operating positions freely. The line from Aching to Birch is a through road through the cassette yard. The junctions to AC are effectively within the cassette yard. If you can fit suitable station within that scheme I would go for that one.  It obviously needs drawing out to check .

 

Don 

[drduncan]

I think a walk around format might be possible if I’ve interpreted the revised route map correctly. It will depend on the placement of the fiddle yard and it’s design (a combined traverser/turntable with a number of cassette lines within it to allow you to ring the changes) would do it.  Of course the width of the room will be key to allow you to walk round the outside of a peninsula that contains the FY and BM...

Duncan

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, Donw said:

I haven't drawn it up yet but this might work

 

CA as for original after coming round the curve the line to Achingham branches off  into an island terminus the main line disappears into a cassette yard  along the bottom the tracks for Birchingkam reappear round the corner  and  curve again into Birch.... across the top the exit tracks go off scene into a lift out across the doorway and then run under Ca and round to a low level fiddle yard below the other one. There has to be room to get round the end of Achingham to reach the fiddle yard . 

Yes you still have a lifting or liift out or swining section but it is none scenic and once inside you can reach all the operating positions freely. The line from Aching to Birch is a through road through the cassette yard. The junctions to AC are effectively within the cassette yard. If you can fit suitable station within that scheme I would go for that one.  It obviously needs drawing out to check .

 

Don 

 

 

I think I could reduce the length of Achingham by a foot or so without spoiling its looks. 

 

I'd probably want to increase the width by another 2'.  It really would dominate the garden at this point. 

 

However, I do like this idea.

 

Considering the plan below, I would keep the cassette yard where it is, but the lines/junctions running along the back of Achingham would be removed.  The lines out of the Cassette Yard into BM would be those from CA and Aching Constable.  Thus, BM as drawn would have its orientation reversed.

 

 

This gives a very rough approximation:

 

 

EDIT: Now that I look at it, I realise that, for the single operator, there is a long walk to CA from the cassette yards (probably better than a time consuming crawl), so either plan rather stops me seeing the train journey to CA 

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Edwardian

[uax6]

I think thats a much better arrangement, it gets rid of that akward triple junction.

Where does the single line at the bottom go? 

 

Andy G

[Edwardian]

2 minutes ago, uax6 said:

I think thats a much better arrangement, it gets rid of that akward triple junction.

Where does the single line at the bottom go? 

 

Andy G

 

As Don suggests, under CA and round to a lower cassette yard below the one marked

[uax6]

Ah I see. Ta.

 

Whats the potential size of the building, and therefore what does that make the ruling radius?

 

Andy G

[Edwardian]

Hang on!

 

There is not continuous run in Don's plan, so why can't the line terminate at the door in a second cassette yard?

 

That's where I'd always intended it in the existing shed, the only difference is that Achingham is end on to it, not parallel.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, uax6 said:

Ah I see. Ta.

 

Whats the potential size of the building, and therefore what does that make the ruling radius?

 

Andy G

 

 

3' minimum radius

[brianusa]

3 hours ago, Annie said:

A magnificent plan James, but my knees and back immediately started to ache at the sight of that crawl-under.  When I was younger i was involved with helping to exhibit a large NZR layout that had crawl-unders and they got old very fast.

 

The comfy chair sounds good and don't forget a kettle for making tea.

Wise words!  My layout was constructed almost before the bloom of youth had left.  Or so it seemed, as the bloom of youth wore down to the wrinkles of old age making it virtually impossible to perform maintenance beneath the baseboard.  Luckily it wasn't needed very often but now forget it; which might mean the end of running toy trains as we knew it. 

Recently a broken hip really put the kibosh on running any trains  which means I am confined to that comfy chair and a nice cup of tea!

Brian.

[Compound2632]

Do you want a continuous run? For myself, I think it's desirable, but I'm lazy.

 

Beware the duckunder. In less time than you expect you'll be regretting it's not a flap...

Edited June 27, 2021 by Compound2632

[Edwardian]

1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

Do you want a continuous run? For myself, I think it's desirable, but I'm lazy.

 

Beware the duckunder. In less time than you expect you'll be regretting it's not a flap...

 

 

I have never planned a continuous run, but found that my latest plan had created one incidentally.

 

The latest plan has no duck-under.

 

I reckon that I can re-draw to that configuration and lose a foot off the width and off the length in the process, which will help the shed not to crowd the garden too much!

 

Furthermore, I could not locate the entrance on the end wall, at the end of CA, and run the second cassette yard into the corner, to the right of the entrance, though I think stopping short to allow the door to open and to avoid working in the doorway.