Castle Aching

[brianusa]

1 hour ago, BlueLightning said:

 

Although Dean didn't take over at Swindon until 7 years after Stroudley started standardising at Brighton, so I think the original comment still stands

 

Gary

True enough, Stroudley may have been first but standardisation wasn't necessarily exclusive to any one design or railway and the GW certainly approved of the idea early on.

     Brian.

[Compound2632]

9 minutes ago, brianusa said:

True enough, Stroudley may have been first but standardisation wasn't necessarily exclusive to any one design or railway and the GW certainly approved of the idea early on.

     Brian.

 

Only if you consider the early 20th century "early on". By the last quarter of the 19th century the larger lines had a fair degree of standardisation, maybe not as thorough-going as Stroudley's. It was certainly part of T.W. Worsdell's programme on the North Eastern, Holden's on the Great Eastern, Webb's on the North Western, and Johnson's on the Midland. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Compound2632

[Nearholmer]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

John Ramsbottom at Crewe had turned out 943 identical locomotives

 

That sounds more like stunning lack of imagination than standardisation.

[Compound2632]

9 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

 

That sounds more like stunning lack of imagination than standardisation.

 

No, I think for the 1850/60s, it represents a great imaginative leap forward. In addition to the 943 DX goods engines, 86 of which were built for the L&Y, there were 260 "Special Tanks" - saddle tank versions of the DX goods - though the majority were built after Ramsbottom's retirement in 1871, 90 6 ft coupled passenger engines of the Samson class and 96 6 ft 6 in ditto of the Newton class, along with the 60 7 ft 6 in singles of the Problem class.

 

But to be fair, at that time the LNWR was the largest railway in the country by a bigger margin than was the case by a couple of decades later with the Midland's extensions and the Great Western's amalgamations, so required larger numbers of locomotives than any other company anyway. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Compound2632

[Edwardian]

Help required please!

 

Need to choose a font for WNR goods livery.  This will be white shaded black. At the moment it's just in black, so you have to imagine.

 

The top font you can ignore - that's the one for carriage lettering - but which of the others?

 

[Annie]

Always a problem to pick something era correct (more or less)  with modern fonts, but I like the second to last one best.  The letters aren't as squashed up as the others and crimes against the letter 'G' aren't so blatant.  None of them make much of a job of the  letter 'E' and the letters 'B' and 'R' could do with stretching out a bit, but overall not too bad.

[wagonman]

20 hours ago, Donw said:

 

The SS 0-4-2st on the Cambrian one  called Plynlimion features nicely on some photos of the Kerry Branch. The cabs added to the various SS locos were usually just extended up from the originals some have the original beading still showing at the join.

 

 

The Kerry tanks were 0-4-0STs of a different design though still very much a Sharps type. There were three of them, Plynlimon, Mountaineer and ANOther which has temporarily slipped my mind (and I'm too lazy to look up). They were originally cabless but later received a typical Cambrian arrangement – with a gaping hole in the front for access to the reversing lever. Often tempted to build one BUT MUST RESIST!

 

 

[wagonman]

19 minutes ago, Annie said:

Always a problem to pick something era correct (more or less)  with modern fonts, but I like the second to last one best.  The letters aren't as squashed up as the others and crimes against the letter 'G' aren't so blatant.  None of them make much of a job of the  letter 'E' and the letters 'B' and 'R' could do with stretching out a bit, but overall not too bad.

 

That's Gill Sans which makes it very much a 1920s font – much used by the LNER. It's also far too light. As you say, it's a problem trying to match C19 signwriters' faces. Look at some of the early Grotesque fonts like those from the Berthold foundry in Berlin, or Franklin Gothic (the numbers might need a tweak – esp 1).

[Compound2632]

No. 1 Son tells me that in Student Union* elections at Durham, Ron has to be on every ballot. *Including affiliated clubs and societies.

 

I'm afraid he gets my vote this time. 

 

[Ron = re-open nominations.]

 

 

[Annie]

14 minutes ago, wagonman said:

 

That's Gill Sans which makes it very much a 1920s font – much used by the LNER. It's also far too light. As you say, it's a problem trying to match C19 signwriters' faces. Look at some of the early Grotesque fonts like those from the Berthold foundry in Berlin, or Franklin Gothic (the numbers might need a tweak – esp 1).

Yes it's too light and needs to be bulked out a bit.  With my pre-grouping digital models I might start with an off the shelf font, but then by the time I draw all over it and stretch it about it looks nothing like what I started with.

 

The font on the 4th line down in James's post is a bit better, but if I was using it as a starting point the 'G', 'E' and 'O' would be in for surgery and most probably the 'W' too depending on the prototype.

[Annie]

This is a font I use a fair bit in my own work as a starting point.  Ignore the 'G' since it is a crime.  I always hand draw the letter 'G' on my own wagons so it remains unloved, unwanted and incapable of rehabilitation.

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Annie
Horrible mistakes

[Edwardian]

Thank you.

 

I started using the PO lettering from HMRS, which I really like, but would never be able to make up enough of the right sized WNRs.

 

The selection of fonts present are as close as the designer can get without drawing up a new font (v. expensive) 

 

So, the sample

 

 

And the choice again

 

[Compound2632]

If you'd be happy with unshaded lettering without stops for more common-or-garden wagons such as opens, you could start from the HMRS LNWR sheet. As a pre-1908 modeller, I've no use for the LNWR lettering along the bottom. The largest size might be a bit too avant-guard for you but there are some smaller sizes in there.

[wagonman]

50 minutes ago, wagonman said:

 

The Kerry tanks were 0-4-0STs of a different design though still very much a Sharps type. There were three of them, Plynlimon, Mountaineer and ANOther which has temporarily slipped my mind (and I'm too lazy to look up). They were originally cabless but later received a typical Cambrian arrangement – with a gaping hole in the front for access to the reversing lever. Often tempted to build one BUT MUST RESIST!

 

 

 

Okay, I got off my ar$e and looked it up: the Sharps' tanks were 36 Plasfynnon, 37  Mountaineer, and 38 Prometheus. Plynlimon was a 2-4-0 tender engine.

 

A couple of swift and dirty grab shots from C C Green's book...

 

 

 

[Annie]

17 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Thank you.

 

I started using the PO lettering from HMRS, which I really like, but would never be able to make up enough of the right sized WNRs.

 

The selection of fonts present are as close as the designer can get without drawing up a new font (v. expensive) 

 

So, the sample

 

 

And the choice again

 

Font choice 'J' might be the best fit then, but the 'R' isn't quite the right shape.  The number '1' would need extraneous bits shaved off it, but that might be your best choice James.

 

[uax6]

Do you actually need the WNR part of the lettering? Could you not just put the Dodo illiterate symbol on and a number?

 

Frankly all of the two choices (apart from the top line in each case) look far too modern to me.

 

Andy G

(who prefers his E's to have the middle sticky thing placed higher than the middle of the letter, like the Post Office used to do with their engineering vans.... In fact the F and P and H all also had the top bit of the letter (in caps obviously) higher than halfway up the letter.....)

[Edwardian]

I think Annie's right.  J is the closest.

 

Like the idea of a Dodo illiteracy mark, though!

 

Sample carriage lettering:

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Edwardian

[Edwardian]

46 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

If you'd be happy with unshaded lettering without stops for more common-or-garden wagons such as opens, you could start from the HMRS LNWR sheet. As a pre-1908 modeller, I've no use for the LNWR lettering along the bottom. The largest size might be a bit too avant-guard for you but there are some smaller sizes in there.

 

I'm tempted to have just one or two wagons outshopped in the WNR's 1905 goods livery, with the small W.N.R in the bottom left, replaced with a large W N either side of the door. 

The LNWR sheet would be perfect for that.

[Regularity]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

No. 1 Son tells me that in Student Union* elections at Durham, Ron has to be on every ballot. *Including affiliated clubs and societies.

 

I'm afraid he gets my vote this time. 

 

[Ron = re-open nominations.]

 

 

Going back some years now, but I remember the kerfuffle when Ron came 5th in a ballot to elect 11 people for 6 non-executive posts. Those who were in positions 1-4 claimed that it meant they were elected, but anyone thereafter wasn’t (which seemed a reasonable claim to me and also as it transpired, so did the returning officer) but those who came 6th and after, especially after, declared the whole thing null and void.

An institution in neighbouring metropolis only had a single candidate for President, and he lost to Ron. He stood again - repeatedly. No one else was prepared to stand, and he seemed to enjoy the notoriety/publicity, so on and on it went.

 

Student elections: much ado about nothing!

 

[Hroth]

To assist the Great Lettering Debate, I've inverted the image and reduced it in size so it's more 4mm:ft

 

 

In this form, I looks good.  It shouldn't look either too blocky or spidery...

 

 

I don't mean ME....   *sigh*

[Compound2632]

Looking at @Hroth's version, if obliged to pick one, I'd join with @Annie and go for j.

 

How does the coaching stock lettering look in a bold version of the typeface?

Edited May 3, 2020 by Compound2632

[Donw]

1 hour ago, wagonman said:

 

Okay, I got off my ar$e and looked it up: the Sharps' tanks were 36 Plasfynnon, 37  Mountaineer, and 38 Prometheus. Plynlimon was a 2-4-0 tender engine.

 

A couple of swift and dirty grab shots from C C Green's book...

 

 

 

 

 

Just shows dont post without checking.  Senile moment?

 

Don

[ChrisN]

I think that it ought to be 'j' although I am not sure any of them are very wonderful.

[Edwardian]

38 minutes ago, Hroth said:

To assist the Great Lettering Debate, I've inverted the image and reduced it in size so it's more 4mm:ft

 

 

In this form, I looks good.  It shouldn't look either too blocky or spidery...

 

 

I don't mean ME....   *sigh*

 

Thank you.  That is very helpful.

 

I think it favours j, however. 

[NeilHB]

I would likewise go for option J - that to me looks the most suitable.