Castle Aching

[Andy Hayter]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

Faced with the choice between a hour or so modelling and drinking heavily, I opted for the former, but I just cannot persuade any cube of plasticard small enough to be a bolt on a wagon strap to be glued to it.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Having been in a similar situation while running 2 projects side by side, and finding I just could not get the styrene bits to stick together, I came to the stunning conclusion:

 

Red label flux (used for the other project - building LMS L&Y buffer stops) is  cr@p solvent for polystyrene.  I would not mind but the two bottles are not the same shape, one has a red label and black cap, the other green and green; but I still opened the flux and used it to try and solvent weld some plastic - Dumbo of the year award.

[Hroth]

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Faced with the choice between a hour or so modelling and drinking heavily, I opted for the former, but I just cannot persuade any cube of plasticard small enough to be a bolt on a wagon strap to be glued to it.

 

Any suggestions?

 

At the risk of teaching egg-sucking, spear the microscopic bolt head with a pin, blob some solvent on the glueing site using a cocktail stick and shove the bolthead onto the rapidly evaporating solvent. Hold, blowing gently on the assembly until you feel that you've completely worried any bystanders.  You may need another pin to hold against the newly attached bolt head to remove the original pin without dislodging the bolt head.

 

You never know, it might work....

 

Then again....

 

[Nearholmer]

Now that WotW has been suspended (temporarily?), can I add something that I think might interest pre-groupers?

 

Photo below is of the carriageway of an unadopted road, as it crosses the arch of a railway bridge in the middle of nowhere. The bridge parapets over the trackbed have been replaced with concrete ones at some stage, probably 1920-50, looking at the style, and the remaining brick parts are very clearly migrating down towards the trackbed.

 

Would you have guessed that setts would be used in such a location? I wouldn't.

 

This is on the one-day-to-be-reopened Bletchley-Oxford Line, and the Cambridge-Oxford Cycleway.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Regularity]

18 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

At the risk of teaching egg-sucking, spear the microscopic bolt head with a pin, blob some solvent on the glueing site using a cocktail stick and shove the bolthead onto the rapidly evaporating solvent. Hold, blowing gently on the assembly until you feel that you've completely worried any bystanders.  You may need another pin to hold against the newly attached bolt head to remove the original pin without dislodging the bolt head.

 

You never know, it might work....

 

Then again....

 

It does work. Been doing it for years.

 

I use a slight variation on that. 

Needle is held in a pin vice (which looks like a chuck, unlike a pin-chuck, which looks like a vice!) which is a tool I also use for marking out.

I pick up the cube with this and then hold it in place. Solvent is applied via a 000 brush with half the hairs removed (or 0000 if you can get one).

 

This is about 20 years old, and looks it, too - handrail has been disturbed, a bit like its builder/owner.

I can do better nowadays. When I can be bothered.

[Martin S-C]

James, you can buy "3D transfers" of strapping with bolts on, or just the bolts I think.

[teaky]

19 hours ago, Hroth said:

That explains a lot.

 

A supplementary question.  Given that the Martians were of superior intelligence and had advanced technologies. why did they target their invasion on Great Britain, a densely populated, highly cohesive society with technological expertise and a militaristic bent?  Surely it would be more appropriate to target the Great Plains of the USA or Russia east of Moscow, both relatively underpopulated and with relatively less sophisticated military forces?  In such places they may have been able to create a world-conquering base, free from human interference before they struck with devastating force!

 

Of course, they would have succumbed to the deadly bacteria of Earth before actually setting forth to bring doom and disaster to the planet and it wouldn't have been such a thrilling yarn.  Perhaps their rotting carcasses and abandoned machinery might have been discovered by Professor Challenger, but that would be another story.....

Stephen Baxter wrote a sequel to WotW called The Massacre of Mankind where the Martians came back for another go and attacked all major population centres more or less at once.  It is not Baxter at his best and doesn't have the impact of Well's original but I enjoyed reading it and would say it was a successful sequel.

[Compound2632]

9 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Now that WotW has been suspended (temporarily?), can I add something that I think might interest pre-groupers?

 

Photo below is of the carriageway of an unadopted road, as it crosses the arch of a railway bridge in the middle of nowhere. The bridge parapets over the trackbed have been replaced with concrete ones at some stage, probably 1920-50, looking at the style, and the remaining brick parts are very clearly migrating down towards the trackbed.

 

Would you have guessed that setts would be used in such a location? I wouldn't.

 

This is on the one-day-to-be-reopened Bletchley-Oxford Line, and the Cambridge-Oxford Cycleway.

 

 

Drainage? You wouldn't want the infill material - compacted rubble, soil, etc. - getting sodden and then water building up on the extrados of the brick or stone arch, or on the steelwork of the girders (depending on the type of bridge).

[corneliuslundie]

I find that I have very variable results with the plastic cube method, though I have done thousands - count how many there are on a typical mineral wagon. Two factors seem to affect things, at least, the exact grade of the plastic rod used for the bolt heads and the body of the vehicle, and the cleanliness of the part to which the bolt is being added. Sometimes I have actually been forced to sue a tiny blob of thick superglue to get any traction, but at other times they go on easily wih just a dab of Mekpak, though often it is useful first to wash the surface with mekpak - and then ad the bolt quickly before it has finished evaporating.

Another thing i have found is that the brush can get loaded with plastic, and that the Mekpak can also get polluted with plastic, when one does a lot of this kind of thing.

so persevere.

[Nearholmer]

Possibly, although I’ve never noticed another rural bridge with this sort of surface.

 

it might be that is is a very rare survivor, with most others having been adequately re-surfaced ....... but then occupation bridges are treated to planned neglect, and I never saw one like this.

 

setts suggest a design for heavy/aggressive traffic ...... maybe the farmers on this road had some really beefy ploughing engines?!

[Hroth]

It looks a pretty robust affair, and (though they'd probably been pinched by the time of the photo), there are no diamond-shaped "unsuitable for Heavy Motor Vehicles" signs.

 

Alamy stock image

 

Edited March 30, 2019 by Hroth
Attribution of image

[Argos]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

Possibly, although I’ve never noticed another rural bridge with this sort of surface.

 

it might be that is is a very rare survivor, with most others having been adequately re-surfaced ....... but then occupation bridges are treated to planned neglect, and I never saw one like this.

 

setts suggest a design for heavy/aggressive traffic ...... maybe the farmers on this road had some really beefy ploughing engines?!

I can't comment on historic railway bridges but in my working career (since the late 80s) highway accommodation structures are always surfaced , even if the access and egress to the overbridge is a farm track.

 

This is because the responsibility for maintenance of the bridge deck rest with the highway authority, so a robust , long lasting and easily maintained surface is preferred.

 

I suspect this would also apply to our pre-grouping railway companies.

[Martin S-C]

Prior to tarmacadam what would have been used other than setts? I can't think of a long-lasting strong alternative. Timber might be sufficient for paths and animal tracks but vehicles would need something more resilient. Its curious - this is an issue I've never even thought about before.

[Nearholmer]

The strange thing about this road is that it is ‘unadopted’, not maintained by the highway authority. It serves two or three farms, and although it is surfaced, is in terrible condition - it nearly had me off my bike in a spectacular manner last year, when I failed to see two monster pot-holes, hidden by contrast between bright sun and deep shadows. How I didn’t crash, I shall never know - I just clung-on and prayed, feet shaken off the pedals.

[Argos]

Hi Nearholmer,

 

I think that's the point, whilst the road either side might be unadopted the bridges are.

If not then a large "commuted sum" is payable to transfer responsibility.

It is usually preferable to keep responsibility within the Authority.

 

It works the other way as well.

When developers build new infrastructure to enable access to land (or as part of planning condition) they have to pay a commuted sum to the adopting authority. 

Section 38 of the Highway act cover this (if you are really bored!)

 

I would guess this principle extends back in time.

[wagonman]

On 29/03/2019 at 13:58, petethemole said:

Paul Magrs' novel Never The Bride includes a storyline based on the fact that one of the Martians survived, stranded in a remote village in Norfolk, where he fathered children with the local women, the resultant 'mixed race' community becoming a closed, isolationist society with various Martian bodily mutations.

 

I think I know just the village...

[wagonman]

19 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Faced with the choice between a hour or so modelling and drinking heavily, I opted for the former, but I just cannot persuade any cube of plasticard small enough to be a bolt on a wagon strap to be glued to it.

 

Any suggestions?

 

My method, surely not unique is to use a fine pointed brush loaded with MekPak to pick up the 'cube' and carry it to the wagon, placing it roughly with the brush and more exactly with a pin or scalpel tip. I've not had any problems with this method so have not needed to fall back on the bottle of 40° proof...

 

 

[Owd Bob]

Cobbled surfaced bridges like that seemingly in the middle of nowhere, were very common and there are still a few survivors in fields around here, all over old and still used railway lines, i'll try and get some pics' next time i'm out and about, many around here were/are very near large farms or old long gone coal mines, with coal movement probably being the main reasons around my area of South lancs' Although they seem a bit over the top now there must have been a good heavy reason for going to such troubles back then. 

[Nearholmer]

Argos

 

An accommodation bridge, maintaining unity of land under common ownership that would otherwise be split by the railway, normally has to be 'made and forever maintained' by the railway company. Most "farm bridges" fall into this bracket, and I don't believe that Highway Authorities have anything to do with them, the railway looks after them, because they don't carry highways, and presumably the railway company never commuted a sum for upkeep to the HA.

 

I suspect that this bridge falls into that bracket, and that the setts are, as result, "railway business", made a very long time ago, and forever maintained by being ignored.

 

However, as well as giving access to a farm, it also has a long-established right of way, in the form of a bridle-path, now also a cycle-route, across it. Keeping continuity of a bridle-way, or a public footpath for that matter, is again usually covered by a "make and forever maintain' obligation on the railway that potentially splits one, and I've never heard of a Highway Authority having adopted, say, a footbridge. I know that some authority, presumably The Highway Authority, but possibly the County Council in a different role, has an interest in the continuity of bridle-ways and footpaths, because in the past I've had to apply for a 'temporary stoppage' to undertake railway work ........ I just can't recall who it was that we had to apply to for the 'order'.

 

Railways are a bit different from most developers, because they expect to maintain a long-term presence, and because the Act or Order that allows their route places specific obligations on them and their successors, which they usually don't seek to pass over to Highway Authorities until the route is well and truly defunct (which the one in question isn't ..... there are several Network Rail labels on it currently), which is why NR owns zillions of bridges, a good proportion of them with no railway present.

 

Kevin

 

EDIT: and, blow me, if there isn't an example of NR maintaining an accommodation bridge on the very line on question given on their own website! See part way down this page https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/looking-after-the-railway/bridges-tunnels-viaducts/

Edited March 30, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Argos]

32 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

An accommodation bridge, maintaining unity of land under common ownership that would otherwise be split by the railway, normally has to be 'made and forever maintained' by the railway company. Most "farm bridges" fall into this bracket, and I don't believe that Highway Authorities have anything to do with them, the railway looks after them, because they don't carry highways, and presumably the railway company never commuted a sum for upkeep to the HA.

 

 

 

Hi Kevin,

 

Sorry I should have been clearer, I was using my understanding of the Highways Act and assuming it applied similarly to the Railways.

 

Rather bizarrely though Highways England is responsible the historic abandon rail estate that was left in BR's portfolio!

So if your bridge is over an abandoned railway line and hasn't been sold on it will be maintained by a Highway Authority.....

[Nearholmer]

It’s over a currently ‘mothballed’ railway that is soon (we all hope!) to be re-opened.

 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

EDIT: and, blow me, if there isn't an example of NR maintaining an accommodation bridge on the very line on question given on their own website! See part way down this page https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/looking-after-the-railway/bridges-tunnels-viaducts/

 

That's a fascinating video - and lots of engineers got a jolly day out. The technique does appear, however, to involve the destruction of any historic road surface.

[Nearholmer]

Comprehensively. Although, I guess it could be reinstated if it merited.

 

it is a blooming impressive technique, isn’t it?

[Jim15B]

On 29/03/2019 at 10:51, Joseph_Pestell said:

Ignoring the Martians if I may, it has never occurred to me to ponder what was previously on the site of all those mansion flats. I must start to do some research on old-maps.co.uk. London may have been a much more attractive city.

Many of the mansion flats were built on the sites of successive slum clearances in the early 1800s that systematically wiped out much of the early city that was still directly linked to the post Great Fire period. Thousands of people were moved out with the result that even more crowded slums were created on the fringes of the new developments. There was a building craze in the early 1800s akin to the railway mania later in the century, and many investors lost everything as projects floundered and developments stagnated. 

[Andy Hayter]

On 30/03/2019 at 14:06, Martin S-C said:

Prior to tarmacadam what would have been used other than setts? I can't think of a long-lasting strong alternative. Timber might be sufficient for paths and animal tracks but vehicles would need something more resilient. Its curious - this is an issue I've never even thought about before.

Prior to tarmacadam road surfaces would have been macadam (no tar) - ie crushed stone held together by soil, animal dung and anything else that happened upon the surface.

My understanding is that tarmacadam was discovered when a cart on a macadam road lost a barrel of tar which spilt onto the surface.

[Hroth]

On 30/03/2019 at 13:06, Martin S-C said:

Prior to tarmacadam what would have been used other than setts? I can't think of a long-lasting strong alternative. Timber might be sufficient for paths and animal tracks but vehicles would need something more resilient. Its curious - this is an issue I've never even thought about before.

 

In towns, alternatives to stone setts included wooden and rubber setts, used in situations where noise reduction might be required (Theatres, Hospitals?).  These vanished when cars and lorries became common as the surface provided was too slippy.

 

11 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

Prior to tarmacadam road surfaces would have been macadam (no tar) - ie crushed stone held together by soil, animal dung and anything else that happened upon the surface.

My understanding is that tarmacadam was discovered when a cart on a macadam road lost a barrel of tar which spilt onto the surface.

 

The theory behind the Macadam surface was that iron-shod cart and carriage wheels would crush the stone chippings into a fine grit which would bond together to provide a "smooth" yet easily drained layer for vehicles to run on.   A Macadam road was constructed from stones in layers of different sizes, the road surveyor would have a series of try-rings to ensure that the correct size stones were being laid for each layer.

 

This was all very well until rubber tyred vehicles*, travelling at considerable speed became common.  The tyres would suck the powdered stone out of the interstices of the surface, wrecking it and leaving a cloud of fine dust in their wake, coating the surrounding countryside (and pedestrians, horses and carts and washing lines) in a ghostly white layer of dust.

 

So a bonding agent was required to seal the surface and so tarmac was devised.

 

* Not just cars and lorries, but pesky bicycles too...