Castle Aching

[runs as required]

At least we've abandoned calculating engines* for now and are back to railways, * Speaking of Liverpool and calculating engines, did you know that it was once common practice to build Differential Analysers from Meccano?

Please: I first mentioned 'calculating engines*, Liverpool and railways all back here in the one post before the outbreak of shooting (though failed to pull in Binns Road)

*a room full of lippy girls who punched in our wages data

[Nearholmer]

Martin

 

Re: yours of 18:13.

 

I thought we’d finished with the US approach to disturbed teenagers.

 

Kevin

Edited December 8, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Hroth]

Martin

 

Re: yours of 18:13.

 

I thought we’d finished with the US approach to disturbed teenagers.

 

Kevin

I think he realises that now.... 

 

Please: I first mentioned 'calculating engines*, Liverpool and railways all back here in the one post before the outbreak of shooting (though failed to pull in Binns Road)

*a room full of lippy girls who punched in our wages data

 

There you go then.

 

I've worked with Scouse lasses, you've just got to cultivate a stiff upper lip and a thick skin.

Oh, and suppress the blush reflex.....

Edited December 8, 2018 by Hroth

[Nearholmer]

Hroth

 

I didn’t see what was there initially.

 

It was the word ‘deleted’ that I was commenting on.

 

Black humour and all that.

 

Kevin

Edited December 8, 2018 by Nearholmer

[runs as required]

Thanks to Compound2632 for posting the RCH map above .

I think it worth thinking a bit more about Merseyside in 1902, its elaborate floating Landing Stage and  railway connections.

I'd say in-bound transAtlantic passengers might prioritise convenience/speed in rank order of

1

Riverside station and away via Crewe etc. to Euston

2

Cab to Central Station thence via GCR (& CLC) to Marylebone

       2a  Cab to the (preceding) Midland Adelphi Hotel for refreshment (possibly overnight) thence (via Central station, CLC, & Midland*) to St Pancras

       2b  Cab to Lime Street and overnight at the LNW Waterhouse hotel (now rather out of fashion) thence to Euston

3  

The GNR from Central (& CLC) to Kings Cross (more likely via Grantham - as above)

4 

Great Western tender across from the Landing Stage directlly across and into Woodside station (very convenient).

 

I suggest these passengers might be Americans who may have been swayed more by the attractions of Chester, Wales, the Bard at Stratford upon Avon and Oxford than speed – (the Bicester cut-off from Aynho only opened in 1910).

Americans were also intrigued how New York’s Central Park had been inspired by Paxton’s layout grid for Birkenhead and pioneer rectangular Park.  Only a decade or so earlier the developers  had abandoned the urban grid’s western extension in favour of far profitable Birkenhead Dock building investment.

 

*It is worth remembering the Midland was on a roll at this time: The Midland’s replacement Adelphi Hotel  was finished in 1914 by its Liverpool architect who was well in with the Americans ( Skyscraper architects Burnham & Root) in building Selfridges on Oxford St.

But for the war, the Midland might have electrified Manchester Central to Derby (and have built the Midland Hotel Morecambe 20 years earlier).

As students in Liverpool our Prof gave us (a rare) lecture on the architectural qualities of the Adelphi (he had an American wife)

Memorably he confessed to us that every morning (out of Central Low Level from West Kirby), as he passed it by, the Adelphi would whisper to him

"I've got a steel frame - but I don't shout about it..."

It was to-do with the delicacy of the Portland stone cladding and the almost flush window reveals.

dh

 

PS

Does anyone know? Did the competing companies offer Stateside pre block-booking to would-be American tourists - e.g. Watkin's  Anglo-French basket of companies throwing in the Riviera?

I understood this to be very much the market the post Grouping companies competed over.

Edited December 8, 2018 by runs as required

[Edwardian]

...

[Compound2632]

Does anyone know? Did the competing companies offer Stateside pre block-booking to would-be American tourists - e.g. Watkin's  Anglo-French basket of companies throwing in the Riviera?

I understood this to be very much the market the post Grouping companies competed over.

 

From the qualifier "of England" I suspect these posters were for the North American market:

 

 

They're London-centric; not directly targeted at passengers disembarking in Liverpool. Note the discrepancies of scale in the maps!

 

There was also a marketing campaign in France; I think I've posted this before:

 

Edited December 8, 2018 by Compound2632

[Caley Jim]

Interesting to note that on the (presumed) American maps a direct line is shown between Carlisle and Glasgow, which would be the CR one, while on the French map it goes via Dumfries and what looks like Kilmarnock.  The latter was the G&SWR route, they being one of the Midland's partners in the Anglo-Scottish traffic (the other being the NB for Edinburgh over the Waverley route).

 

Jim

[Northroader]

In America the big railroads had downtown offices, which were convenient for cityfolks and businessmen to get tickets and reservations at a central location, and in an office with a more leisurely atmosphere than at a station. There was also the consideration that they could channel the traffic, as a lot of city stations selling tickets could be served by several competing lines and the clerks could be a station company, rather than with individual lines. In a lot of cases they had offices in cities which they didn’t serve directly, involving journeys on other lines. All this needed the growth of telegraphic communication, so it was late Victorian / Edwardian era growth. These offices could also act as agencies for steamship lines, so Americans travelling to Europe would pretty well have their routing and ticketing all set up, much the same as a modern travel agency. Here’s the Milwaukee city office on the ground floor of this building in 1912.

On the subject of getting across the Mersey, GWR passengers would leave Woodside station, and immediately round the corner was the entrance down the bridge on to the floating landing stage. The crossing was on a ferry boat which was owned by Birkenhead Corporation from mid Victorian times, to a similar landing stage at Liverpool Pier Head. Then a good walk, or taxi with luggage along to the embarkation for the big ships (and the North Wales and IoM steamers just before those)

[runs as required]

Yes we did exactly this from Woodside across to the Manx boat in 1947 from Snow Hill

But I thought I remember someone telling me of the GW having rather posh tenders in earlier years that went right up the stage (sorry downstream) to the trans Atlantic ships direct from Woodside station past all the Manx and Irish steamers.

Those Birkenhead Corpy almost Edwardian looking coal fired ferries were my favourites. Rather broad in the beam with names like Woodchurch and Oxton.

Edited December 8, 2018 by runs as required

[Martin S-C]

Martin

 

Re: yours of 18:13.

 

I thought we’d finished with the US approach to disturbed teenagers.

 

Kevin

Yes, we had, but someone else chose to ignore that and I responded, then decided to delete my comment as life is too short and they were miles off the subject anyway.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Martin S-C

[Hroth]

...

On the subject of getting across the Mersey, GWR passengers would leave Woodside station, and immediately round the corner was the entrance down the bridge on to the floating landing stage. The crossing was on a ferry boat which was owned by Birkenhead Corporation from mid Victorian times, to a similar landing stage at Liverpool Pier Head. Then a good walk, or taxi with luggage along to the embarkation for the big ships (and the North Wales and IoM steamers just before those)

 

The thing about Woodside was that it was effectively built back to front.  The entrance most people used, connecting with the tram and bus stops and the Landing Stage was actually the back entrance.  The grand entrance to the station was on the other side, facing onto Lairds graving dock, and had a wonderful porte-cochère leading into a vast booking hall and was hardly used, ending up as a parcel handling area.

 

[Northroader]

Could be, I never bin round that side!

 

P.s. James, what’s the material you’re using to cut your Gothic widow from??

Edited December 8, 2018 by Northroader

[webbcompound]

It would be wrong to assume that all the passengers were American tourists. Since liners were the only way to get across the Atlantic plenty of British people were making the crossing, some for family reasons, some for business reasons and some as tourists, and the vast majority of wealthy passengers came back as well. Only the people in steerage tended to travel in a single direction. Some of these were British, but lots were from Europe. These latter had crossed from Germany to Hull, and then traveled by Emigrant Special trains to Liverpool. Whether these were run by the L&YR direct, or by the NER with a change of loco midway, or both I don't know

[Northroader]

Going on from that, my daughter had an exchange at school with a German family, whom we met, and they gave me a job to research regarding distant relatives who emigrated to N, America. From what they knew, I picked up a boat from Hamburg, I think it was, to Grimsby, then to Liverpool, and ship via Boston.

[Compound2632]

Interesting to note that on the (presumed) American maps a direct line is shown between Carlisle and Glasgow, which would be the CR one, while on the French map it goes via Dumfries and what looks like Kilmarnock.  The latter was the G&SWR route, they being one of the Midland's partners in the Anglo-Scottish traffic (the other being the NB for Edinburgh over the Waverley route).

 

Jim

 

I'm pretty sure the straight line is intended to represent the G&SWR route - look how straight the line to Edinburgh is too! 

 

These latter had crossed from Germany to Hull, and then traveled by Emigrant Special trains to Liverpool. Whether these were run by the L&YR direct, or by the NER with a change of loco midway, or both I don't know

 

I'm pretty sure that was a traffic developed by the L&Y, as Northroader says, using running powers beyond Goole, or maybe shipping direct from Hamburg to Goole. The L&Y was heavily into North Sea ferry operations.

[Hroth]

...

But for the war, the Midland might have electrified Manchester Central to Derby (and have built the Midland Hotel Morecambe 20 years earlier).

As students in Liverpool our Prof gave us (a rare) lecture on the architectural qualities of the Adelphi (he had an American wife)

AAdelphi.jpg

Memorably he confessed to us that every morning (out of Central Low Level from West Kirby), as he passed it by, the Adelphi would whisper to him

"I've got a steel frame - but I don't shout about it..."

It was to-do with the delicacy of the Portland stone cladding and the almost flush window reveals.

dh

The Oriel Chambers in Water Street are an even more amazing stone clad iron frame and metal framed oriel window confection

 

 

Pretty well as built, in 1864, apart from some additions due to wartime bomb damage.

 

(They bombed our chippie too....)

Edited December 8, 2018 by Hroth

[nick_bastable]

...

good effort,  at the risk of offending would you like that laser cut ?

 

Nick

[Edwardian]

James, what’s the material you’re using to cut your Gothic widow from??

 

cereal packet and polyfilla.

 

 

good effort,  at the risk of offending would you like that laser cut ?

 

Nick

 

That is kind, thank you.

 

Something laser cut would certainly be better, though might risk showing up my somewhat rustic standards.

 

Let's see how I get on with Mark I! 

[Compound2632]

good effort,  at the risk of offending would you like that laser cut ?

 

Nick

 

Laser cutting would give a feature like that the too-clean lines of machine-cut stone, which would suit some Victorian Gothic - the less satisfactory type of "restoration". Edwardian's modelling clay (?) could be a more successful way of representing worn and weathered stone and the not-quite-perfect hand-workmanship of local masons. 

[Edwardian]

Laser cutting would give a feature like that the too-clean lines of machine-cut stone, which would suit some Victorian Gothic - the less satisfactory type of "restoration". Edwardian's modelling clay (?) could be a more successful way of representing worn and weathered stone and the not-quite-perfect hand-workmanship of local masons. 

 

We may, I'm afraid, have to make do with the not-quite-perfect hand workmanship of Yours Truly! 

[Talltim]

How have you done the leading?

[Martin S-C]

For cardboard and polyfilla I am truly impressed!

(though it would also be a treat to see how a laser cut window would look).

[Edwardian]

How have you done the leading?

 

Well, in the picture is just the PAD (pencil aided design) drawing.  The ex-packaging clear plastic is laid over it and the drawing used as the guide for scribing the plastic. Paint is then applied and rubbed off the plastic, leaving it only in the scribed lines. 

 

The result is far from perfect, but, then, not so bad as it might have been!

[Compound2632]

Well, in the picture is just the PAD (pencil aided design) drawing.  The ex-packaging clear plastic is laid over it and the drawing used as the guide for scribing the plastic. Paint is then applied and rubbed off the plastic, leaving it only in the scribed lines. 

 

The result is far from perfect, but, then, not so bad as it might have been!

 

Classic method. I remember doing just that for the leaded windows of a Settle & Carlisle goods shed nearer 40 than 30 years ago - so I'm wondering where I picked up the tip?