Castle Aching

[Compound2632]

Thank-you. That was well overdue!

[Edwardian]

Monday night is music night.

 

Very much enjoyed the Offenbach.  The Watersons was excellent Trad. Folk.  The Grieg was a very happy discovery.

 

I'm afraid that the subtlety of Gert Fröbe's song was lost on me, but I noted that the band quoted from at least three Prussian marches that I could identify.  Should I be worried about that?  

[Northroader]

Here’s a nice catchy foot tapper, allegedly German WW2 March, but written by a Brit for a film sincewise. We had a Luftwaffe visit to Lyneham RAF a few years ago, and the town band played this to make them feel at home. It remains about the catchiest part of their repertoire.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sUK8LG_MuWU

[Martin S-C]

Entirely possible that there might be some veterans of Omdurman serving out their days as directing staff in volunteer battalions!

 

Though I think the nearest would have been the Lincolnshire Regiment, and, if not off to India, I would have thought any ex-regulars of that regiment would have ended up in one of its own 3 volunteer battalions.

 

It strikes me, though, that one of the advantages of extending the history of the West Norfolk Regiment past 1881 might be that I can invent its subsequent campaign history, rather like Bernard Cornwall with his South Essex!

Might that be a portrait of Captain Flint-Knapp? Perhaps the Captain is an officer in the West Norfolks?

[Edwardian]

Whilst freely acknowledging that we pay scant regard to the full range, depth and complexity of her acting, in favour of type-cast winsome portraits of the young Miss Agutter, our collective muse, these are at least posted in a spirit of innocence and I, for one, am getting a little tired of the smut they elicit from some quarters. This is a family show, and in a post-Me Too world, certain attitudes appear less and less amusing and increasingly unattractive.

 

We will be running no Andy Cap specials on this railway!

 

Please can everyone retain a sense of the appropriate.

 

     

[Regularity]

My wife describes me as the sort of weirdo who watched “The Railway Children” to see the trains.

She’s right.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Regularity

[Hroth]

I'm afraid that the subtlety of Gert Fröbe's song was lost on me, but I noted that the band quoted from at least three Prussian marches that I could identify.  Should I be worried about that?  

 

The Daily Mail (circa 1910) wouldn't like you!

 

Probably wouldn't like any of us now, either......  

My wife describes me as the sort of weirdo who watched “The Railway Children” to see the trains.

She’s right.

Handbags at dawn, eh?

[brack]

The Daily Mail (circa 1910) wouldn't like you!

 

But allegedly the same organ 25-30 years later might be rather happy about that.

[Nearholmer]

Anyway, the chaps at Birlstone thought you’d all like this. It’s a bit crackly, but then, old-fashioned gramaphobe music sometimes is.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

Pass the Kleenex, matron.

Large box tonight, I think.

 

That neckline... just gorgeous.

 

Edit: to spare the blushes of those who take offence on behalf of others.

 

With much ill-grace as you could muster, which was considerable.

 

I have had to field concerns from regular contributors on several occasions in the past concerning some of the less salubrious posts on this topic, and you have been the chief cause of these concerns.  I see it as no part of my business to moderate my own topic; it clearly isn't remotely my business, and I've had to explain this to people.  Also, I am hampered with what is essentially the sense of humour of an eleven-year old boy, so I do not take offence easily.  However, this time I felt you had gone too far. I asked you nicely, but ... 

 

After your last PM to me, you will note that your are now blocked.  Whilst I cannot block you from this topic, for my part, for the present, you are no longer welcome.

[Edwardian]

Might that be a portrait of Captain Flint-Knapp? Perhaps the Captain is an officer in the West Norfolks?

 

Martin, he is a Private, so, no. Generally I would expect the battalion officers to be wearing patrol jackets, reserving their red tunics for parade order.  Officers have to be different, it's an officer thing. 

 

We have touched on this before, but the dress of volunteers units, the Territorial Army from 1908, in this period is interesting. In theory the army adopted Home Service Khaki, darker than the sandy coloured Khaki worn overseas, in 1902.

 

Not surprisingly, the change to this drabness did not happen overnight, and volunteer units generally lag behind the regulars when it comes to new kit.  Having looked, for instance, at pictures of a number of Yeomanry units in the Edwardian period, it is clear that the wearing of blue patrol uniforms was still widespread, often with slouch hats, hangovers from Imperial Yeomanry service.  The exception was the Norfolk Yeomanry.  This was a newly constituted unit and, so, would have been clothed ab initio in khaki, but the king objected, so they adopted blue tunics.

 

A while back we sampled some pictures of volunteer units off on camp.  My general impression from this, admittedly far from comprehensive, survey was that the old 'colour' uniforms were commonly in use by volunteer units until c.1910, by which point khaki service dress has become the norm, with the old colour uniforms reserved for full dress. I could be wrong, and, I daresay that full dress occasions may have been disproportionately photographed. 

 

At least by the 1900s the volunteer battalions no longer seem to sport the old Home Service spiked helmet. Photographs invariably show the Glengarry type side cap.

 

So, we are looking at dark blue trousers and cap and red tunic, with white accoutrements.  The facings of the Norfolk Regiment appear to have been white at this time.  The name only changed to Royal Norfolk Regiment post WW2.

 

If we permit the survival of the West Norfolk Regiment, the old facing colour of blue would presumably have been revived (all regiments adopted white c.1880, but this was unpopular and, so, the old colours were restored.  The West Norfolk was a Peninsular War and Indian Mutiny regiment.  It had to share a depot in Derbyshire from 1870 and was culled in 1881.  If, in our scheme, it instead survived, the regular battalions (in this alternative reality we assume more than one) would have had opportunities to serve in Africa (Anglo-Egyptian war and two goes in the Sudan) or India (various North West frontier campaigns).  It is possible that volunteers were embodied and served in South Africa during the Boer War (2nd?), as was the case with the 3rd Volunteer Battalion of the Norfolk Regiment. 

 

These pictures of other volunteer battalions should serve as a guide to the appearance of the West Norfolk Regiment Volunteer Battalion in 1905.  Notice how, in the case of the Yorkshire Battalion, the cyclist section has a slightly different uniform, something I first noticed in the case of the Inns of Court Rifle Volunteers in their grey Victorian uniforms.

[corneliuslundie]

Back temporarily to the Frost and Fire LP,  it was a bit of a shock to realise that the period between 1905 and its being issued (1965) as a record is not much more than the period from its issue to date. I  owned it while still a student. Tempus fugit even faster than I thought.

Jonathan

Edited September 17, 2018 by corneliuslundie

[Martin S-C]

For a heart-stoppingly grand British march you cannot do better than this. As a bonus we get the wonderful Leonard Rossiter doing some splendid over-acting.

And later on in the film is the brisk Liliburlero

 

[Nearholmer]

The cycling difference might be purely practical.

 

If you try riding a bike for any distance with either a broad belt on or anything constraining around your shoulders, it is b uncomfortable. I’d expect them to have the shoulders of the jacket cut broader, and with larger armholes, and for it to be cut shorter, so as to avoid it flapping about the thighs. I’m surprised they’re wearing bandoliers (if that’s the proper term), because they’d get annoying after five minutes pedalling.

 

I’ve posted enough Edwardian cycling clothing pictures before, so won’t again, but I’d guess that the uniform was an adaptation of ‘sensible cycling gear’ from civilian life.

 

PS: Lillibulero can only mean ‘This is London calling in the World Service of the BBC’.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

Back temporarily to the Frost and Fire LP,  it was a bit of a shock to realise that the period between 1905 and its being issued (1965) as a record is not much more than the period from its issue to date. I  owned it while still a student. Tempus fugit even faster than I thought.

Jonathan

 

Crikey, that is a shocking thought!

 

 

For a heart-stoppingly grand British march you cannot do better than this. As a bonus we get the wonderful Leonard Rossiter doing some splendid over-acting.

 

 

And later on in the film is the brisk Liliburlero

 

 

I love those scenes, because it's all fife and drum, rather than the band, so real battlefield music.

 

In the battle scene with the n the Prussians, IIRC there is a fife and drum rendition of the Hohenfriedberger Marsch.  

 

 

The cycling difference might be purely practical.

 

If you try riding a bike for any distance with either a broad belt on or anything constraining around your shoulders, it is b uncomfortable. I’d expect them to have the shoulders of the jacket cut broader, and with larger armholes, and for it to be cut shorter, so as to avoid it flapping about the thighs. I’m surprised they’re wearing bandoliers (if that’s the proper term), because they’d get annoying after five minutes pedalling.

 

I’ve posted enough Edwardian cycling clothing pictures before, so won’t again, but I’d guess that the uniform was an adaptation of ‘sensible cycling gear’ from civilian life.

 

I see.  Look at these of the Inns of Court.  They are the sort of uniform common in Rifle Volunteer units in the 1880s-1890s. The infantry uniform is that of the figure with the spiked helmet.  The mounted scout and the cyclist, aside from wearing pill-box caps, wear a different cut if tunic entirely, one that includes breast pockets.

[Tom Burnham]

Interesting photo dated 1 April 1923 at a sand pit half a mile west of Hassocks station.  Appears in the British Geological Survey GeoScenic photo collection - http://geoscenic.bgs.ac.uk/asset-bank/action/viewAsset?id=16934&index=0&total=1&view=viewSearchItem
The extensive chalk inscriptions are noteworthy.  Can anyone ID the 3rd wagon?

[Edwardian]

Interesting photo dated 1 April 1923 at a sand pit half a mile west of Hassocks station.  Appears in the British Geological Survey GeoScenic photo collection - http://geoscenic.bgs.ac.uk/asset-bank/action/viewAsset?id=16934&index=0&total=1&view=viewSearchItem

The extensive chalk inscriptions are noteworthy.  Can anyone ID the 3rd wagon?

 

That is a great photograph, and, presumably the LNWR wagon is explained in this instance by being post-pool.  No, I cannot tell what the third wagon is, but we have some good wagon-spotters here.

 

I had toyed with the Hassocks sand pit as a micro layout.  IIRC it was the haunt of Brighton-based E2s and an E4 was also spotted there.

 

EDIT: Tired and typing's gone to pot!

Edited September 17, 2018 by Edwardian

[Nearholmer]

Judging by that piccy they viewed bikes as iron horses when it came to uniform design, which probably led to chaffing, not only at the bits.

[Nearholmer]

Hassocks sand pit line is the definitive location for the definitive portrait of Thomas, details in another thread, but goodness knows which.

 

I’m no wagonista, but love the photo.

[Edwardian]

Hassocks sand pit line is the definitive location for the definitive portrait of Thomas, details in another thread, but goodness knows which.

 

I’m no wagonista, but love the photo.

 

It's perfect because it's just 2 sidings and has a bridge in just the right place for your exit to a traverser!

 

Tight clearances, mind!

[Nearholmer]

Aha, yes, that’s the photo. And, here’s Réginald Payne’s rendering.

[Martin S-C]

Blimey, Thomas looks way too happy. Did his crew pick some mushrooms to fry on the shovel and then feed him some?

[Donw]

I do hope Thomas isn't rushing to the sand pit with that train....

 

The march of time is disconcerting. Having been born in the first half of the 20th century I am much closer to the Edwardians than to today's teenagers probably in more ways than just age. One of the big influences in my life was my Maternal Grandfather born in 1890.

Incidentally my copy of the Railway modeller arrived the other day. In it is a feature by Charles Barnabe on modelling Victorian railways. A rather tempting project. The photos accompanying it are of the West Somerset Mineral line which ran somewhere in the view from our window although the comberrow incline is hidden by a hill in front. Being rather short of space for my Cambrian layout I am wondering whether moving it back from about 1904 to the mid 1890s would make it more likely that 6 wheel coaches would predominate and whether these might be used for through coaches. Of course it would also affect the locos. Not so much the Cambrian where the Sharpies ( 2-4-0 4-4-0 and 0-6-0s) would be fine but on the Great Western side Dukes might be still used for main lines, I think the round firebox Dean goods would be suitable and possible a Barnum perhaps a Stells might be suitable. I dont this a River class features as a kit anywhere but something from the Wolverhampton works could be more fitting. 

Regards all

Don

[Edwardian]

I do hope Thomas isn't rushing to the sand pit with that train....

 

The march of time is disconcerting. Having been born in the first half of the 20th century I am much closer to the Edwardians than to today's teenagers probably in more ways than just age. One of the big influences in my life was my Maternal Grandfather born in 1890.

Incidentally my copy of the Railway modeller arrived the other day. In it is a feature by Charles Barnabe on modelling Victorian railways. A rather tempting project. The photos accompanying it are of the West Somerset Mineral line which ran somewhere in the view from our window although the comberrow incline is hidden by a hill in front. Being rather short of space for my Cambrian layout I am wondering whether moving it back from about 1904 to the mid 1890s would make it more likely that 6 wheel coaches would predominate and whether these might be used for through coaches. Of course it would also affect the locos. Not so much the Cambrian where the Sharpies ( 2-4-0 4-4-0 and 0-6-0s) would be fine but on the Great Western side Dukes might be still used for main lines, I think the round firebox Dean goods would be suitable and possible a Barnum perhaps a Stells might be suitable. I dont this a River class features as a kit anywhere but something from the Wolverhampton works could be more fitting. 

Regards all

Don

 

 

All of which sounds utterly glorious to me!

[corneliuslundie]

Sounds as though Donw and ChrisN should be doing a joint layout. Late c19th Cambrian seems to be getting very fashionable - and easier to model.

I mustn't be tempted.

Jonathan.