Castle Aching

[runs as required]

Most of the Cambrian around the armpits of the coastline west of Dovey Junction seems to rest upon low timber trestles - as does the Furness around the Cumbrian coastline.

 

i'm just reading the book "Exactly" by Simon Winchester about the history of Precision (too floridly written for my Orwellian tastes). It does strike me that around the times of the Napoleonic wars and after, down to the 1880s ? vast amounts of heavy section timber was sourced from around the world (e'g masts of Norfolk Island Pine) and converted in sawpits to standard sizes. Pre-cast concrete began taking the place of timber for trestles around 1900.

dh

[Martin S-C]

James, your link to the Fakenham/Barsham images revealed a little known photo of my track laying circa 1970...

[Compound2632]

Lucky escape for the enginemen!

 

From a modelling point of view, excellent reference photo for sheeted merchandise wagons in traffic - note that four out of six wagons are sheeted.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Compound2632

[wagonman]

I have no need for  one in my current plans but oh so tempting. Quitely ignoring the half finished Slaters kit somewhere in store. I do have an H class of which Minerva are doing another run (although the first was under the Ixion label. One cannot have too many MWs can one?

 

Don

 

 

My understanding was that the project had been shelved due to too few pre-orders. And James shouldn't get too excited about the forthcoming Minerva model as it is in 7mm scale. A bit big for Castle Aching – but just right for the Cwmtowy Mineral Railway...

[RedGemAlchemist]

I have no need for one in my current plans but oh so tempting. Quitely ignoring the half finished Slaters kit somewhere in store. I do have an H class of which Minerva are doing another run (although the first was under the Ixion label. One cannot have too many MWs can one?

 

Don

Couldn't agree more, Don. Of all the independent loco builders, Beyer Peacock and Manning Wardle have always been personal favourites on my part. Plenty of charming little engines from both companies.

Edited September 14, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[Compound2632]

In Beyer, Peacock & Co's case, charming engines in sizes to suit all pockets:

 

[Martin S-C]

Lucky escape for the enginemen!

 

From a modelling point of view, excellent reference photo for sheeted merchandise wagons in traffic - note that four out of six wagons are sheeted.

And not a van in sight.

[St Enodoc]

James, your link to the Fakenham/Barsham images revealed a little known photo of my track laying circa 1970...

 

Wobby trackwork.jpg

What an interesting static diorama that would make.

[Regularity]

What an interesting static diorama that would make.

A moving one would be quite alarming!

[Jammy2305]

I certainly seem to recall local conjecture that the bridge at Barsham may still surivive within the embankment, the latter earthworks having simply been built up around the wooden structure when the tunnel was taken out. I guess it's one of those things that will remain unknown! I've heard of a similar buried structure near Lynn and have also found a siding buried out the back of the yard at Dereham (complete with wooden decking for the loading chute of the adjacent maltings).

 

Equally, I saw in the news today (or should that now be yesterday?) that resurfacing work on the B4632 at Cleeve Hill, Cheltenham, has uncovered a stretch of the original 1901 tramway a few feet below the surface. It makes you wonder what else is still out there...

[runs as required]

Burying such structures does seem to have been pretty common practice. Most recently this has been literally  'exposed' as causative in the failure of the sea wall east of Shakespeare Cliff tunnel in the South Eastern's original approach to Dover.

 

It must be dependant upon what the 'steady state' regime will be in the tipped embankment. Permanently buried timber pile structures (and faggots resting upon permanently sodden peat bogs) remain stable.

Where, as at Dover, the tipped material burying the timber trestle was chalk and the location was tidal (as also at Barsham) then the varying water content will cause failure - dissolution of the chalk and disintegration of the timber structure.

dh

Edited September 15, 2018 by runs as required

[relaxinghobby]

Probably, but I was thinking in these terms ....

Is that the Bachmann Billy chassis, looks like it? Which wheels and axles did you use? I must get on with my cardboard bodied conversion of one.

The motor will have to go in the cab to preserve the small smoke box look. We need a source of fat engine drivers to ride in the cab and hide the motor. Preferably

made of lead to help the adhesive weight of small model locos.

[NeilHB]

It used to be a fairly frequent occurrence in Leicester to see the old tram rails under the modern road surface whenever they were doing road works.

 

I also recall on episode of Time Team from many years ago where they were searching for a buried viaduct in South Wales I think - IIRC they had to dig a flipping long way down to find it...!

[Edwardian]

Is that the Bachmann Billy chassis, looks like it? Which wheels and axles did you use? I must get on with my cardboard bodied conversion of one.

The motor will have to go in the cab to preserve the small smoke box look. We need a source of fat engine drivers to ride in the cab and hide the motor. Preferably

made of lead to help the adhesive weight of small model locos.

 

Yes, it is the Bachmann Junior.

 

Well spotted on the wheels.  These are Gibson Manning Wardle wheels, which I acquired before I saw your excellent suggestion to use the Bachmann HO Switcher wheels.  I need to fit the gear wheel from the Bachmann Junior axle to the Bachmann Switcher axle.  Any tips on this would be welcome, as I believe you did this?

 

If this succeeds, at least I'll have a set of MW wheels for when I can afford the RT Models kit!

 

 

I certainly seem to recall local conjecture that the bridge at Barsham may still surivive within the embankment, the latter earthworks having simply been built up around the wooden structure when the tunnel was taken out. I guess it's one of those things that will remain unknown! I've heard of a similar buried structure near Lynn and have also found a siding buried out the back of the yard at Dereham (complete with wooden decking for the loading chute of the adjacent maltings).

 

Equally, I saw in the news today (or should that now be yesterday?) that resurfacing work on the B4632 at Cleeve Hill, Cheltenham, has uncovered a stretch of the original 1901 tramway a few feet below the surface. It makes you wonder what else is still out there...

 

 

Burying such structures does seem to have been pretty common practice. Most recently this has been literally  'exposed' as causative in the failure of the sea wall east of Shakespeare Cliff tunnel in the South Eastern's original approach to Dover.

 

It must be dependant upon what the 'steady state' regime will be in the tipped embankment. Permanently buried timber pile structures (and faggots resting upon permanently sodden peat bogs) remain stable.

Where, as at Dover, the tipped material burying the timber trestle was chalk and the location was tidal (as also at Barsham) then the varying water content will cause failure - dissolution of the chalk and disintegration of the timber structure.

dh

 

Yes, it is said that the trestle bridge was in situ when the embankment was filled.

 

The photograph below, also plundered from the Fakenham Community Archive site (http://fakenhamcommunityarchive.weebly.com/barshams.html) shows the culvert under construction, what looks like a supporting arch, and the tipped earth filling in the bridge.  There is also a Y14 on a short PW train.   The GE Permanent Way Brakes had a verandah at only one end and side windows.  The diagram book illustration on the GERS website shows a 10-ton PW Brake, but this has 3 side windows, not the 2 shown here, and appears to have outside framing.  I think the one in the photograph is likely to be a later build and, I guess, relatively new at the time of the infilling (mid 1890s).

 

Thank you to Northroader for reminding us of the bridge over the Alde at Snape (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107713-castle-aching/?p=3299795), how could I have forgotten?  However, demerits for posting a Nationalisation Era picture of it!  To make amends, here is another Y14, c.1910, in unlined goods black with a 20-ton brake and the statutory Midland open (unsheeted).

Edited September 15, 2018 by Edwardian

[Martin S-C]

I also recall on episode of Time Team from many years ago where they were searching for a buried viaduct in South Wales I think - IIRC they had to dig a flipping long way down to find it...!

I was going to mention that but you beat me to it. IIRC the viaduct crossed a shallow valley which was slowly filled with tip spoil to the point where they had to build a brick arch over the viaduct track. The spoil was then tipped over the brick arch until the viaduct in effect became a tunnel (on legs). Tony Robinson et al had to use a pretty hefty mechanical digger and the brick arch was finally located some 9m (or it may even have been 13m) below the modern ground surface. What used to be a significant valley feature was now a flat area of waste ground with all trace of the original geography deeply buried. It gave a good sense of how much material early- to mid 19th C industry dug out to get at what they wanted.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Martin S-C

[corneliuslundie]

I think the viaduct under discussion is probably at the Blaenavon ironworks.

 

Further west there was a viaduct on the Pontypool Road-Neath line near Treharris which was steadily being buried by colliery waste from Ocean Taff Merthyr Colliery. (originally two collieries but combined in later years). I have just looked on Google Earth but there are now so many trees that nothing is visible, though I believe that the viaduct and the tipped waste are both still there.

Jonathan

[Northroader]

Well, they were pregroup painted in BR colours is my excuse. Now, talking about objects getting covered over and being found again, here’s a news item to test your German comprehension, mein freunde.

https://www.ka-news.de/region/karlsruhe/Karlsruhe~/Die-versunkene-Lok-im-Rhein-Wird-die-Bergung-endlich-gelingen;art6066,2221364

[Clearwater]

I was going to mention that but you beat me to it. IIRC the viaduct crossed a shallow valley which was slowly filled with tip spoil to the point where the had to build a brick arch over the viaduct track. The spoil was then tipped over the brick arch until the viaduct in effect became a tunnel (on legs). Tony Robinson et al had to use a pretty hefty mechanical digger and the brick arch was finally located some 9m below the modern ground surface. What used top be a significant valley feature was now a flat area of waste ground with all trace of the original geography deeply buried. It gave a good sense of how much material early to mid 19th C industry dug out to get at what they wanted.

For professional purposes (!), I was researching how much coal was dug out at exported in the early years of the 20th Century. An astonishing c200-250million tons of coal was excavated each and every year before World War 1. Each of the South Wales ports was exporting over 10 million tons of coal. In context, total UK imports of coal last were of the order of 10mt.

 

There's an interesting site http://swanseadocks.co.uk that has some good archive photos of Swansea from the height of the coal trade.

 

David

[Edwardian]

Well, they were pregroup painted in BR colours is my excuse. Now, talking about objects getting covered over and being found again, here’s a news item to test your German comprehension, mein freunde.

https://www.ka-news.de/region/karlsruhe/Karlsruhe~/Die-versunkene-Lok-im-Rhein-Wird-die-Bergung-endlich-gelingen;art6066,2221364

 

Profligate Teutons!  If they'd been Scots, they'd have hauled her out and promptly restored her to revenue earning service!

 

Still, I love the idea of a band of Eisenbahnromantiker!

Edited September 15, 2018 by Edwardian

[lanchester]

I think the viaduct under discussion is probably at the Blaenavon ironworks.

 

Further west there was a viaduct on the Pontypool Road-Neath line near Treharris which was steadily being buried by colliery waste from Ocean Taff Merthyr Colliery. (originally two collieries but combined in later years). I have just looked on Google Earth but there are now so many trees that nothing is visible, though I believe that the viaduct and the tipped waste are both still there.

Jonathan

One of the biggest/ highest wooden trestle viaducts (as opposed to Brunel style wooden arches on piers) in the UK would have been Knitsley on the NER Lanchester Valley branch. Filled in (timber in situ) round about the Great War. There's a picture in Tomlinson if I remember rightly, and it is of a size which would grace the United States - really doesn't look very British!

[brack]

Profligate Teutons! If they'd been Scots, they'd have hauled her out and promptly restored her to revenue earning service!

 

Still, I love the idea of a band of Eisenbahnromantiker!

They've restored a few locos the NZGR dumped as riprap in the antipodes.

[brack]

One of the biggest/ highest wooden trestle viaducts (as opposed to Brunel style wooden arches on piers) in the UK would have been Knitsley on the NER Lanchester Valley branch. Filled in (timber in situ) round about the Great War. There's a picture in Tomlinson if I remember rightly, and it is of a size which would grace the United States - really doesn't look very British!

thanks for pointing this out, it sparked a little searching which produced the following:

 

https://youtu.be/DlvcRWkGMJU

 

filling it in - note the brickwork already in place on the right of the photo.

 

 

given that I've driven to the rather nice Knitsley Farm shop quite a few times in the past few years it is a little embarrassing that I wasn't aware!

[Martin S-C]

Wow. What an edifice. I had never heard of it. That second photo could easily be the wide open prairies of Montana.

[Edwardian]

One of the biggest/ highest wooden trestle viaducts (as opposed to Brunel style wooden arches on piers) in the UK would have been Knitsley on the NER Lanchester Valley branch. Filled in (timber in situ) round about the Great War. There's a picture in Tomlinson if I remember rightly, and it is of a size which would grace the United States - really doesn't look very British!

 

 

 

thanks for pointing this out, it sparked a little searching which produced the following:

 

https://youtu.be/DlvcRWkGMJU

 

filling it in - note the brickwork already in place on the right of the photo.

 

 

given that I've driven to the rather nice Knitsley Farm shop quite a few times in the past few years it is a little embarrassing that I wasn't aware!

 

Wow indeed!

 

Apparently 700' long and 70' high.  The line was commenced in 1861 and the viaduct required substantial repair by 1915 - the infilling in the picture above apparently dates from 1919 - indicating a lifespan of 50 odd years.

 

Incidentally, the East Barsham viaduct was said to be 40 years old when filled.  The Wells & Fakenham Railway was constructed in 1857 - making it contemporary with the West Norfolk's line to CA - and the viaduct filling was authorised in 1893 and undertaken in the mid-'90s.   I do not know if the impetus for the work was more the need to reduce Brasham Tunnel to a cutting, as the tunnel reportedly suffered damage from water ingress, or whether the state of the viaduct timbers were causing concern (or both).  

 

Unless the WN viaduct timbers had been renewed, one might think that it must be near to the end of its life in 1905!  However, the Snape branch was of a similar vintage to the Wells & Fakenham and the WNR, with work largely complete in 1858.  It was not until the 1950s that engineers pronounced concern over the bridge timbers, yet these were timber bridges constructed upon timber piles and partly submerged in water. 

 

Back to Barsham, Fakenham Communtity Archive has a view of the northern end of Barsham Tunnel during demolition (mid-1890s).  The ubiquitous Y14 here has what looks like an outside-frame PW brake and a round ended open.  The Round-ended open was built in large numbers from the 1850s to the early 1880s under the Eastern Counties and then the GE.  According to the excellent Basilica Fields website, "At the end of 1901 there were still over 2000 of these wagons in stock, but with Holden’s policy of withdrawing all timber-framed wagons from revenue-earning service as non-diagrammed and obsolete, numbers diminished rapidly over the next decade and almost all had gone by 1910, though some remained in departmental service". 

 

I had planned to include a late-build round-ended wagon among the GE goods stock for CA, and to include 1860s examples sold on to the WNR.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Edwardian

[Nearholmer]

If anyone is feeling ambitious, I have a copy of “Railroad Construction” by Messrs Crandall and Barnes, which contains detailed instructions and drawings as to how to build a railroad, including trestles. You really need a county or three available to take advantage of it, though.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Nearholmer