Castle Aching

[corneliuslundie]

As at Paddington, where the only direction a trap point could be directed without impinging on a running line was towards an overhead electrification stanchion, as was ably (?) demonstrated a few months ago.

Jonathan

[Edwardian]

I have examined the aged Ratio kits.

 

The Johnson 2-4-0 comes with metal wheels and rods for the locomotive, the body is drilled for handrails, and knobs and wire are included.  Also included are shaped metal weights, brass frames and a white-metal crew.  

 

The 4-4-0, by contrast, has moulded-on boiler handrails, which will have to be trimmed off, plastic frames, plastic loco wheels(!), and no weights.  

 

I feel that there will need to be some upgrades!

 

The smoke box doors are separate components, and I must source a dished or bevelled Johnson pattern, along with Johnson chimneys.  I would like to replace the 'trumpet' safety valve cover with lost wax cast brass ones, because these can be burnished up.  Also, brass Salter valves would be an improvement. Replacement buffers and turned brass whistles would be good, and, of course, screwlink couplings.  No doubt there are many little refinements that could be made if the things can be built and made to run! 

 

The spindly plastic loco valances for the 4-4-0 might just be replaced.  I wonder if ones to the correct pattern for the M&GN C Class could be fabricated from brass.

 

As for motor, mount and gears, I haven't a clue.  The 4-4-0 at least will need a full set of wheels.

 

Anyway, quite a lot to do before I will look to start on these, but for any, like me, who do not happen to be familiar with these long out of production kits, I include some pictures.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Edwardian

[Adams442T]

Wherever did you find these gems?  Stuff from your laid aside 'get to it one day' stock, or eBay?

[Edwardian]

Wherever did you find these gems?  Stuff from your laid aside 'get to it one day' stock, or eBay?

 

I have wanted these since childhood, when I had a Ratio catalogue and pined for them.  The 4-4-0s are seldom seen nowadays, and I always seem to miss out on the 2-4-0s when they come up of the Bay of Fleas.

 

I did eventually get lucky, and you only need to get lucky once, and managed to acquire these for, IIRC, about £50 a piece inclusive of shipping from the States and customs duties. 

 

Only people who want something quickly need pay high prices on Bay of Fleas. Bide your time.  The right item at the right price will come round if you wait for long enough!  (and I'd been waiting a good few years for these!)

 

Another (very) slow game has been collecting the 12 RCTS Great Western Locos volumes (there is a 13th, which concerns preservation): I obtained my first volumes about 18 years ago, and completed the set this year.

[Compound2632]

I have examined the aged Ratio kits.

 

The Johnson 2-4-0 comes with metal wheels and rods for the locomotive, the body is drilled for handrails, and knobs and wire are included.  Also included are shaped metal weights, brass frames and a white-metal crew.  

 

The 4-4-0, by contrast, has moulded-on boiler handrails, which will have to be trimmed off, plastic frames, plastic loco wheels(!), and no weights.  

 

I feel that there will need to be some upgrades!

 

The smoke box doors are separate components, and I must source a dished or bevelled Johnson pattern, along with Johnson chimneys.  I would like to replace the 'trumpet' safety valve cover with lost wax cast brass ones, because these can be burnished up.  Also, brass Salter valves would be an improvement. Replacement buffers and turned brass whistles would be good, and, of course, screwlink couplings.  No doubt there are many little refinements that could be made if the things can be built and made to run! 

 

The spindly plastic loco valances for the 4-4-0 might just be replaced.  I wonder if ones to the correct pattern for the M&GN C Class could be fabricated from brass.

 

As for motor, mount and gears, I haven't a clue.  The 4-4-0 at least will need a full set of wheels.

 

Anyway, quite a lot to do before I will look to start on these, but for any, like me, who do not happen to be familiar with these long out of production kits, I include some pictures.

 

I think someone's done some rather neat preparatory work on the dark grey one, removing the moulded handrails. That's something I've done on mine, along with removing the smokebox wrapper rivets. I got a whitemetal Johnson smokebox door from Craftsman many moons ago - still available? My 2-4-0 has been on the go since 1982 which just goes to show its not a straightforward project, needing plenty of time for reflection. The chassis is a non-runner. Gibson do suitable replacement frames, at least for the 2-4-0.

 

You're a lucky boy to have the 4-4-0. Proof that it can be made to work - this post et seq.

[Edwardian]

I think someone's done some rather neat preparatory work on the dark grey one, removing the moulded handrails. That's something I've done on mine, along with removing the smokebox wrapper rivets. I got a whitemetal Johnson smokebox door from Craftsman many moons ago - still available? My 2-4-0 has been on the go since 1982 which just goes to show its not a straightforward project, needing plenty of time for reflection. The chassis is a non-runner. Gibson do suitable replacement frames, at least for the 2-4-0.

 

You're a lucky boy to have the 4-4-0. Proof that it can be made to work - this post et seq.

 

Thank you, Stephen. 

 

A self-administered dose of reality: We are 21 months into this project and no track has been laid.  

 

I have a rake of 4-wheel and a rake of 6-wheel West Norfolk coaches that still require many hours of work.  Work on goods vehicles is modest; I have a stack of eligible kits, the majority completely untouched.

 

There are 10 planned West Norfolk locos, 1 of which is a straight RTR detailing and back-dating exercise,  should use RTR donor chassis, but require new scratch-built bodies, and 2 of which would require kit/scratch-building. I have barely made a start.

 

The village has not progressed for months.

 

In these circumstances, it will probably be a very long time before I turn to kits for visiting locomotives.  

 

That said, I have a suspicion that once I have a working layout, motivation will be boosted.  Further, with one passenger rake, 6 or 7 wagons and a couple of locos, I will be able to operate the layout; there will be no pressure to start/complete stuff and, with the negative pressure off, I might be more productive!

 

Such is the hope.

 

In the meantime, as and when I can, I place a modest order for components that I know I will need.  Unfortunately the next order for Alan Gibson is turning into quite a long and expensive list! 

 

At some point I will need to order some components to complete these Johnson locomotives.  Craftsman Kits has disappeared the way so many useful ranges have.  There is a, perhaps, a 3D-print opportunity for a dished or bevelled Johnson smoke-box door.  

 

In the meantime, Alan Gibson offer the following:

 

4M617 MR Johnson 1'9” safety valve cover

 

4M614 MR Johnson 3'4” chimney

 

4M606 MR whistle

 

4M635 MR 4'7” boiler Johnson Smokebox front

 

These components are not cheap, and the cost soon adds up - over £17 for this little lot.  I wonder what a "Johnson Smokebox front" might be, as opposed to a door.

[Compound2632]

In the meantime, Alan Gibson offer the following:

 

4M617 MR Johnson 1'9” safety valve cover

 

4M614 MR Johnson 3'4” chimney

 

4M606 MR whistle

 

4M635 MR 4'7” boiler Johnson Smokebox front

 

These components are not cheap, and the cost soon adds up - over £17 for this little lot.  I wonder what a "Johnson Smokebox front" might be, as opposed to a door.

 

I'm not sure about that 3'4" chimney - you might want a 3'7" one (which Craftsman did..., also I think LRM but I'm not sure he sells castings separately). Need to research that point properly; I know I was trying to source a 3'7" one possibly to the same end. I think these castings are related to the Class M goods engine Alan Gibson used to do. The smokebox front is a question for someone who's built that kit.

[Regularity]

Can’t speak for that particular kit, but on another the smokebox front was a single casting, including the door. The boiler was tube, with another piece of tube split to slide over the boiler to provide most of the smokebox, with a piece of etched brass for the smokebox wrapper.

 

HTH

[Edwardian]

Thanks, both.

 

Due to lack of budget, necessary equipment and skills, sufficient time, and because of where such projects now find themselves in the Great-Model-Project-Queue-of-Life, I have no immediate plans to embark upon etched brass kit construction.

 

Just out of interest, then, how user friendly are London Road kits relative to the spectrum of kits from ill-conceived, ill-fitting, poorly instructed and pig to make successfully through to well-conceived and manufactured kits with clear instructions that are as near to easy as anything can be in this medium?

[Regularity]

You don’t have to build from etched brass kits. You don’t have to build from kits, nor indeed from metal.

 

Barry Norman’s “Carlisle” was built largely from styrene sheet, but there is no reason why couldn’t put your experience and skill with card to use in building an engine and rolling stock. Suitably braced and sealed with shellac varnish, it would be perfectly strong enough. A basic chassis wouldn’t be too difficult, or use an RTR one. You can always enter into a horse-trade, where you provide a building in return for someone building you a basic chassis, with a haggle over material costs.

 

Can’t comment on LRM kits, except to observe that some originated in-house, and some are from ranges picked up from others. The design ethos and instructions may vary as a consequence.

[Regularity]

Incidentally, this close up of the “backhead”/splashers inside the cab demonstrates the sort of compromise that is unnecessary in finescale:

Just my opinion, but it doesn’t matter how much you refine the wheel standards, the reduced back to back of 00 means it can never be truly finescale. YMMV

(You read this alternatively as a criticism of manufacturers!)

[Edwardian]

You don’t have to build from etched brass kits. You don’t have to build from kits, nor indeed from metal.

 

Barry Norman’s “Carlisle” was built largely from styrene sheet, but there is no reason why couldn’t put your experience and skill with card to use in building an engine and rolling stock. Suitably braced and sealed with shellac varnish, it would be perfectly strong enough. A basic chassis wouldn’t be too difficult, or use an RTR one. You can always enter into a horse-trade, where you provide a building in return for someone building you a basic chassis, with a haggle over material costs.

 

Can’t comment on LRM kits, except to observe that some originated in-house, and some are from ranges picked up from others. The design ethos and instructions may vary as a consequence.

 

A great idea, though it could sound a bit like a 'lonely hearts' ad:

 

Builder of characterful cardboard cottages seeks accomplished locomotive builder for a model relationship.

 

My personal favourite is:

 

Male English A Level Examiner seeks female English A Level Examiner.  Discuss. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by Edwardian

[Hroth]

Or, as Sellar and Yeatman might have directed; "Discuss joyfully"...

 

n.b. Do not on any account attempt to write on both sides of the paper at once.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Hroth

[Caley Jim]

You would need to be ambipapyrus (as well as being ambidextrous) to be able to do that! :-)

 

Jim

[Donw]

I quite like  ' Satyr seeks ###### for platonic friendship'

 

Actually there can be something in the idea, the late David Jenkinson had lots of things from others in return for building coaches. It is usually something between friends where each is confident of the others capabilities.

 

Don

 

ah the censor knows about N y m p h o s

Edited October 18, 2017 by Donw

[uax6]

Another place to look for loco castings is SE Finecast. Dave has all the ex-Nucast moulds (including some of the K's ones) so you should be able to get all sorts from him. He also does wheels, motors, gearboxes etc, and is a mine of info. A ten minute call to him is a joy, and he will go out of his way to help you as well. The w/m parts are daftly cheap as well..

Also give Brian at Branchlines a bell, he may have a chassis kit for these two available. again a lovely bloke to talk to (and he has the Nu-cast chassis parts too.)

 

Andy G

[Andy Kirkham]

.  I wonder what a "Johnson Smokebox front" might be, as opposed to a door.

 

Perhaps as shown in this photo https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/LOCOMOTIVES-OF-THE-LMS-CONSTITUENT-COMPANIES/LOCOMOTIVES-OF-THE-MIDLAND-RAILWAY/i-xCrMBXV/A

 

Johnson was such a consummate artist; he fashioned the fronts of his smokeboxes with barely a visible seam to betray that the door was a separate component.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Andy Kirkham

[Caley Jim]

Perhaps as shown in this photo https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/LOCOMOTIVES-OF-THE-LMS-CONSTITUENT-COMPANIES/LOCOMOTIVES-OF-THE-MIDLAND-RAILWAY/i-xCrMBXV/A

To drag us back to track, notice the distinctive way that the open loose-heel switches on the double slip lie parallel to their respective stock rails, rather than curving away from them as they would if the switch was contiguous with the closure rail.  This is something I tried to replicate on Kirkallanmuir.

 

Jim

[Donw]

To drag us back to track, notice the distinctive way that the open loose-heel switches on the double slip lie parallel to their respective stock rails, rather than curving away from them as they would if the switch was contiguous with the closure rail.  This is something I tried to replicate on Kirkallanmuir.

 

Jim

 

Heel switches usually rely on a fishplace to hold the end of the switch in place with the closure rail. I know you are good at the details but a working fishplate?

 

Seriously loose heel switches are not simple to make and have to be a compromise. What is your solution?

 

Don 

[Northroader]

What I do is have the heel of the switch blade supported in a metal rail joiner. You can waggle the blade to ensure the joiner gives it enough play when thrown. Then a bond of some strands of brass picture wire goes on the back of the switch blade, for electrical feed and also preventing the blade from coming forward out of the joiner. The other end of the blade is supported at the tie bar. This is a length of copper clad fibreglass, there is a brass sole plate under the blade, and an L shaped piece against the blade and the sole plate, soldered to both and filed down for flange clearance. Then the sole plate is bolted down to the tie bar by an 8ba screw, but it can have some freedom to move as the point is thrown.

[Caley Jim]

Seriously loose heel switches are not simple to make and have to be a compromise. What is your solution?

I make the closure rail and switch as separate parts with the closure rail ending between two sleepers.  On the heel end of the switch I fit a piece of copper shim about 4mm long which has been formed into a channel, slid onto the bottom of the switch and then crimped around the foot of the rail.  This is soldered on with half of it projecting beyond the end of the switch.  This then slid onto the end of the closure rail and the switch is held against it by being attached to the stretcher bar at the toe end.  There is thus flexibility between the switch and closure rail, but the 'fishplate' keeps them in line.  The only thing I would do in hindsight is to solder a loop of very fine wire between the heel of the switch and the adjacent stock rail to provide reliable electrical continuity.  This was OK until I spray painted the track.  I found that some paint must have got between the 'fishplate' and closure rail in a few places making the switch electrically 'dead'.  I have been able to restore this by sliding the 'fishplate' back and forth a little.  (there is a fair bit of flexibility in the tiebar system I use).

 

Going back to the subject of traps etc., this image shows an interesting set up where there was a central release road.  The turnout at the end of that has independent switches which operate in unison with the relevant turnout on the platform roads.  Thus when both these turnouts are set for their respective platforms, the turnout in the centre road forms a wide-to gauge trap whereby anything running though it will drop into the four foot and so not foul either platform road.

 

Jim

 

Edited to add that I hadn't seen Northroader's post before I posted this.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Caley Jim

[Edwardian]

I make the closure rail and switch as separate parts with the closure rail ending between two sleepers.  On the heel end of the switch I fit a piece of copper shim about 4mm long which has been formed into a channel, slid onto the bottom of the switch and then crimped around the foot of the rail.  This is soldered on with half of it projecting beyond the end of the switch.  This then slid onto the end of the closure rail and the switch is held against it by being attached to the stretcher bar at the toe end.  There is thus flexibility between the switch and closure rail, but the 'fishplate' keeps them in line.  The only thing I would do in hindsight is to solder a loop of very fine wire between the heel of the switch and the adjacent stock rail to provide reliable electrical continuity.  This was OK until I spray painted the track.  I found that some paint must have got between the 'fishplate' and closure rail in a few places making the switch electrically 'dead'.  I have been able to restore this by sliding the 'fishplate' back and forth a little.  (there is a fair bit of flexibility in the tiebar system I use).

 

Going back to the subject of traps etc., this image shows an interesting set up where there was a central release road.  The turnout at the end of that has independent switches which operate in unison with the relevant turnout on the platform roads.  Thus when both these turnouts are set for their respective platforms, the turnout in the centre road forms a wide-to gauge trap whereby anything running though it will drop into the four foot and so not foul either platform road.

 

Jim

 

Edited to add that I hadn't seen Northroader's post before I posted this.

 

What a wonderful location, Brechin.

[Caley Jim]

What a wonderful location, Brechin.

The station is still extant and is now the base for the Caledonian Railway Brechin .  I had a 'driver experience day' there several years ago - great fun!!

 

Jim

[Edwardian]

The station is still extant and is now the base for the Caledonian Railway Brechin .  I had a 'driver experience day' there several years ago - great fun!!

 

Jim

 

So I see!

 

It would make a wonderful pre-Grouping Caley layout.  While the station has a very attractive street façade, that photograph, with the townscape receding in the background, is a stunning composition.

[Regularity]

There is a very nice 1950s era 00 layout called Eskmuir. Some details on the old forum: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=52034

 

The son of the owner is “Black and Decker Boy” on this forum. There is another link in his signature, but it doesn’t work.

 

The photo Jim provided is not of the whole station, although there is enough for most of us. The track plan is in this particular post:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=52034#p792816