Castle Aching

[Caley Jim]

The main reason that one caught my eye was because it has a clerestory. A good, untidy-looking, pre-group train needs at least one, plus other coaches of subtly different heights, widths and lengths. Uniformity seems to have been reserved for the very poshest trains.

 

K

There's also the variety of roof fittings - oil lamps, gas lamps, no lamps (electrically lit), torpedo vents, HAVOK vents, etc.

 

Jim

[Northroader]

Did somebody say something? Besides the ones in the drawings, you could find very similar ones, but with ventilators over the compartment windows as well as the doors.

This is a nicely done preserved job off the KESR, and to confuse things, it's in the post ww1 livery, making it look like the MR. A 6 wheeler with a clerestory looks good, as Kevin says, I think some were made like this for the more important trains, along with a lot of bogie coaches. Then you could pinch a brake from the suburban sets with the round top doors

Then what about a nice old 4 wheeler brake van, model in the science museum collection? These last two you could panel with strip, giving square corners, much simpler. Busy, busy, busy...

[Caley Jim]

Well, I don't think they came posher than the West Coast 2pm 'Corridor' - the premier express of the Premier Line - with its mix of arch roofed and clerestory carriages, with different panelling styles, or later with elliptical roofs apart from the clerestory diners - at least with consistent panelling style...

And don't forget the sleeping composites.  Two different body widths and styles of paneling on the one coach.  A 'cut and shut' job if ever there was one!

 

Jim

[Northroader]

P.s. Looking at the small print on the modeller drawing, it does say "several varieties can be made..." you've got a full brake there, but you can do a brake third, etc.,

[Edwardian]

What is the connection between the LT&SR and the GER - because this looks like an 1870s GE coach to me?!?  See below and http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/4mm/4mm_LMS_Pregroup_LTSR.htm !

 

 

P.s. Looking at the small print on the modeller drawing, it does say "several varieties can be made..." you've got a full brake there, but you can do a brake third, etc.,

 

Yes, I can, but not from the Ratio sides, which is all I have to work with at present.  I'd love a set of these, but I think all the stock with large radius curves to tops of panels and windows will have to await mastery of a Silhouette cutter.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Edwardian

[Nearholmer]

Fenchurch Street?

[Northroader]

Yes, but those two samples have the different style of panelling. The upper half has your usual mouldings, but these are flush with the panels on the lower half, and the lower half has mouldings which are strip over the top. I suppose the North British is the best known example. Whoever would want to go to Greys, my dear?

Edited July 20, 2017 by Northroader

[Edwardian]

Yes, but those two samples have the different style of panelling. The upper half has your usual mouldings, but these are flush with the panels on the lower half, and the lower half has mouldings which are strip over the top. I suppose the North British is the best known example. Who goes to Grays?

 

Yes, above the waist it is like GE panelling of the 1880s.  The waist panelling is like GE coaches of the 1860s and 1870s. 

 

Query whether the two elements appeared together on any GE coaches?

 

Well, "yes", at least based upon some 1860s GE examples (below). 

 

I do not know what the lack of beading above the waist in the 1870s is all about, but it is also found on the Gloucester Carriage & Wagon Works stock for the Felixstowe Railway (1877), which is why I decided against it for the two-colour West Norfolk livery, and, in the case of a delightful 4-wheel clerestory built for the MGNJ constituent, the Great Yarmouth and Stalham Light Railway .

 

The Worsley Works coaches would make a wonderful 5-coach set for the West Norfolk!

Edited July 20, 2017 by Edwardian

[Compound2632]

What is the connection between the LT&SR and the GER - because this looks like an 1870s GE coach to me?!? 

 

The Great Eastern and the Tilbury were hand-in-glove right up to 1912 when the Midland, with whom the Great Eastern had long collaborated in the London area, swiped the Tilbury from under the Great Eastern's nose.

[Donw]

My advice is to do the ones you can from the ratio kits you have to hand. You also need to build the track have a couple of locos and a fair set of waggons  then there are the station buildings etc. By the time you have done that lot a) you may feel a lot more capable than you do now and might fancy scratchbuilding some. Or b) the budget may have improved and you have a sillouette cutter. The main thing is to collate the drawings and what photographic evidence you can lay your hands on so when in due course a) or b) or c) (someone has made parts available- possible!) becomes a choice you can proceed.

 

Don

[Edwardian]

My advice is to do the ones you can from the ratio kits you have to hand. You also need to build the track have a couple of locos and a fair set of waggons  then there are the station buildings etc. By the time you have done that lot a) you may feel a lot more capable than you do now and might fancy scratchbuilding some. Or b) the budget may have improved and you have a sillouette cutter. The main thing is to collate the drawings and what photographic evidence you can lay your hands on so when in due course a) or b) or c) (someone has made parts available- possible!) becomes a choice you can proceed.

 

Don

 

Thanks, Don.  That is precisely why I want to concentrate on a single GE rake with 2 each of the 1897 types that I can derive from the Ratio sides and the D&S box drawings.

 

It is also precisely why at present I am only considering 4 and 6-wheel WN coaches that I can derive from Triang cut and shuts. 

 

The aim is to produce 2 WN locomotives and one GE, these 3 rakes of coaches and a train's worth of goods wagons (6-7 wagons) and a Goods Break.  Dodo can handle these until a WN Goods Engine comes about.

 

Lots of fun stuff can come later.

[James Harrison]

Re: 4726.

 

No idea whether or not the GER had any, but trains always look better with a "full brake", ideally a Stroudley one, with picture windows and duckets.

 

Aha! This is preserved at Chacewater!

 

Preserved, for a given value of. 

 

 

Chasewater has lots of very pretty/ interesting pregrouping things, mostly in varying states of restoration. 

[Edwardian]

Preserved, for a given value of. 

 

 

Chasewater has lots of very pretty/ interesting pregrouping things, mostly in varying states of restoration. 

 

Excellent picture, thank you.

 

I notice the replacement sides to the look-out, in styrene! 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Edwardian

[Compound2632]

 a delightful 4-wheel clerestory built for the MGNJ constituent, the Great Yarmouth and Stalham Light Railway .

 

What an extravagant carriage - from the eves up - for such a line! The end profile and clerestory are a dead ringer for Clayton's early (1870s) clerestory carriages for the Midland but the sides are pure lost-in-the-mirk-of-antiquity (or to put it another way, 1870s Great Eastern...) New in 1877?

[Caley Jim]

Yes, but those two samples have the different style of panelling. The upper half has your usual mouldings, but these are flush with the panels on the lower half, and the lower half has mouldings which are strip over the top. I suppose the North British is the best known example. Whoever would want to go to Greys, my dear?

This style was also used by the Caledonian.  It was to Dougal Drummond's design and he took it with him went he was head hunted by the Caley, also taking with him his brother Peter.  Peter later became CME of the Highland and then the Sou' West, which explains the family likeness in many Scottish locomotives.

 

Jim

[Compound2632]

This style was also used by the Caledonian.  It was to Dougal Drummond's design and he took it with him went he was head hunted by the Caley, also taking with him his brother Peter.  Peter later became CME of the Highland and then the Sou' West, which explains the family likeness in many Scottish locomotives.

 

Jim

 

That'll be the Glasgow and South Western, not the London and South Western - a minor line that Dugald took on as a hobby after his independent engineering ventures had failed.

 

Neither to be confused with the Great Southern & Western - Ireland's premier line (eat your heart out, Great Northern!)

 

PS. I'd have expected Jim to be able to spell Dugald's name! Not to be confused with he of Magic Roundabout fame - though I am working on the career of youngest brother Zebedee Drummond who went from Neilson's (who do you think actually did the drawings for No. 123?) to the Derbyshire & Staffordshire Junction Railway (uses up spare insignia on the HMRS Midland sheet) in 1889.

[Caley Jim]

And don't forget the sleeping composites.  Two different body widths and styles of paneling on the one coach.  A 'cut and shut' job if ever there was one!

Now able to provide a photo of one of these, Scanned from 'A Register of West Coast Joint Stock'.

 

 

Compartment section to the left, 8'6" wide in standard Wolverton Style; Sleeping section to the right, 9'0" wide in 'American' style (as were WCJS sleeping and dining cars.)

 

Jim

[Northroader]

You can do wonderful things with photoshop these days?!

Coat,

Hat...

Edited July 20, 2017 by Northroader

[Hroth]

Eeek!

 

Looks like a backstreet workshop cut'n'shut job!

 

However did it get an MOT?

[uax6]

And its also convertible from a Ratio side! See the first part of my carriage thread....

 

My advice is that you will find that a bit of time spent working out the studio software will allow you to make up modules of parts for carriages, which you can then build up sides with. Once you have got started you can draw out your fleet in next to no time, unlike making them!

 

I would be reticent to start cutting up ratio sides if I was you. Spend the time with studio, and you will be rewarded with much better results...

 

Andy G

[St Enodoc]

Without wishing to tempt fate, if either billiard tables or umbrellas have been discussed, I missed them...

Watch this space...

[Caley Jim]

You can do wonderful things with photoshop these days?!

Coat,

Hat...

It must have been an early test version.  The book was published in 1980!

 

Jim

[Compound2632]

Now able to provide a photo of one of these, Scanned from 'A Register of West Coast Joint Stock'.

 

WCJS Sleeping Composite.jpg

 

Compartment section to the left, 8'6" wide in standard Wolverton Style; Sleeping section to the right, 9'0" wide in 'American' style (as were WCJS sleeping and dining cars.)

 

Jim

 

Designed when the Wolverton drawing office staff were only half asleep.

[Edwardian]

 

My advice is that you will find that a bit of time spent working out the studio software will allow you to make up modules of parts for carriages, which you can then build up sides with. Once you have got started you can draw out your fleet in next to no time, unlike making them!

 

I would be reticent to start cutting up ratio sides if I was you. Spend the time with studio, and you will be rewarded with much better results...

 

 

 

It will, perhaps, afford some idea of where Silhouette and Inkscape software and I got to if I tell you that I have awoken from an anxiety dream in which the words of your post went round and round my head as a judgment upon having given up and an urgent call to make amends, accompanied by the feelings of stress, guilt, sense of failure and depression induced by my previous attempts!

 

While all quite pathetic, this might explain why, however persuaded I am that a Silhouette cutter is the way forward, indeed, the only way I could produce a reasonable quantity of pre-Grouping coaches, for now I just want something I can bodge to gain some rolling stock to start with!

 

In anticipation of a further day without tangible progress, here is Ford Maddox Brown's Edwardian Contemplates Silhouette Software, 1842:

[mullie]

It will, perhaps, afford some idea of where Silhouette and Inkscape software and I got to if I tell you that I have awoken from an anxiety dream in which the words of your post went round and round my head as a judgment upon having given up and an urgent call to make amends, accompanied by the feelings of stress, guilt, sense of failure and depression induced by my previous attempts!

 

While all quite pathetic, this might explain why, however persuaded I am that a Silhouette cutter is the way forward, indeed, the only way I could produce a reasonable quantity of pre-Grouping coaches, for now I just want something I can bodge to gain some rolling stock to start with!

 

In anticipation of a further day without tangible progress, here is Ford Maddox Brown's Edwardian Contemplates Silhouette Software, 1842:

Wrong type of snow, train cancelled but what can you do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!