RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted July 11, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 11, 2017 You know Sir Edward Watkin was a director of the Nord? Along with the Manchester Sheffield & Lincolnshire, Metropolitan, and South Eastern Railways and the Channel Tunnel Company - you get the pattern? Oh, and the Great Eastern and Great Western (hence 'Sir Watkin' of the 'Sir Daniel' class of Armstrong 2-2-2s, I presume) among other minor lines... What was it we were saying about Barons? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hroth Posted July 11, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 11, 2017 You know Sir Edward Watkin was a director of the Nord? Along with the Manchester Sheffield & Lincolnshire, Metropolitan, and South Eastern Railways and the Channel Tunnel Company - you get the pattern? Oh, and the Great Eastern and Great Western (hence 'Sir Watkin' of the 'Sir Daniel' class of Armstrong 2-2-2s, I presume) among other minor lines... What was it we were saying about Barons? Barons are bad enough, Baronets are even worse! And there was Sir Watkins Folly, the Tower, which stood where Wembly Stadium now stands! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 12, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2017 How about a French layout, then? This is Pierrefonds, near Compiegne. It was used to film an Arthurian series by the BBC, and one of my colleagues' daughters was so keen on the whole thing that he took her there for a day out treat on her birthday. I first went there on a school trip, when I was about nine, and was mega-impressed by the drawbridge over the moat/ditch, which is at the top of a steep hill; went again last year, and was impressed all over again. PS: wouldn't really forced forced perspective allow you to have a very teeny version in the very, very far distance? Blimey! That looks like a cross between Gormenghast and Hogwarts. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Edwardian Posted July 12, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2017 Bonjour, c'est ton ami Routier du Nord ici! All too rare, ze flash of genius makes its visits to you! Pierrefonds,why not? La chateau, les bains, les forests, et la jolie gare. C'est sur le Chemin de Fer du Nord, meilleur reseau de tout le Monde, certainement! Ici in link:http://www.cheminots.net/forum/topic/42755-la-gare-de-pierrefonds-oise/ Maintenant, ze express, wiz the Atlantique locomotif comme ze two you Engleesh keep for la GWR. Quelle belle machine!IMG_1145.JPG Thank you for the link. More excellent pictures. Indeed a most handsome locomotive, and with a minimum of those ghastly accretions with which Continental locomotive builders insisted upon festooning their products at the cost of aesthetic grace. Mind you, a quick trip through Swindon and she would look even better! But I see the Nord had its revenge. Just look what they did to this Great Western 4-4-0! 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted July 12, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2017 Ici in link:http://www.cheminots.net/forum/topic/42755-la-gare-de-pierrefonds-oise/ It's encouraging to find they are as bad as us for going OT... But I do like their wonderful language: une antique voiture à portières latérales en guise de remorque. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Edwardian Posted July 12, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2017 It's encouraging to find they are as bad as us for going OT... But I do like their wonderful language: une antique voiture à portières latérales en guise de remorque. Well, I should really get on with building some antique voitures for the West Norfolk's passengers! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 If Olde English railways are interesting, Les CF Ancien Francais are even more so. Every time this thread crosses the channel I'm off, devising all sorts of lignes d'interet local. The railcars alone are worth a layout. K 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 You know Sir Edward Watkin was a director of the Nord? Along with the Manchester Sheffield & Lincolnshire, Metropolitan, and South Eastern Railways and the Channel Tunnel Company - you get the pattern? Oh, and the Great Eastern and Great Western (hence 'Sir Watkin' of the 'Sir Daniel' class of Armstrong 2-2-2s, I presume) among other minor lines... What was it we were saying about Barons? The GWR director was Sir Watkin Williams-Wynn, Bart, a prominent Welsh Tory of the 19th Century. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 It's encouraging to find they are as bad as us for going OT... But I do like their wonderful language: une antique voiture à portières latérales en guise de remorque. I particularly like the idea of un train de plaisir – you don't get many of those nowadays! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Edwardian Posted July 12, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) The GWR director was Sir Watkin Williams-Wynn, Bart, a prominent Welsh Tory of the 19th Century. Yes, I was thinking that must be the case, but neglected to mention it, because the GW had a locomotive named "Sir Watkin Wynn", a Bulldog IIRC, and the Sir Watkin Class Broad Gauge 0-6-0Ts. EDIT: Not so Ga-Ga as I feared: 3375, Sir Watkin Wynn. Built with parallel boiler May 1903 as number 3427. Fitted with full-cone boiler with superheater Aug 1910. May 1922 shed allocation Neyland. Last shed allocation Newton Abbot. Withdrawn Sept 1947. http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/m_in_440_bulldog2.htm#3375 Now, that's got me thinking, a parallel boiler Bulldog! Nice red frames! Pity the Ks/Nucast Bulldogs are no longer around to adapt. Might one build one on a Bachmann Earl chassis? Compound - something to go with your 1903 Dean Goods conversion. If you only knew the power of the Dark Side! Edited July 12, 2017 by Edwardian 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Hroth Posted July 12, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2017 Thank you for the link. More excellent pictures. Indeed a most handsome locomotive, and with a minimum of those ghastly accretions with which Continental locomotive builders insisted upon festooning their products at the cost of aesthetic grace. Mind you, a quick trip through Swindon and she would look even better! But I see the Nord had its revenge. Just look what they did to this Great Western 4-4-0! What a sight! Methinks the plumbers were on piecework! Also, the Nord seemed to like putting four-wheeled vans at the end of their passenger trains, a sort of foregone conclusion, I suppose... Of course, the problem with modelling French railways is that the environs end up looking like Clochemerle. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian keane Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Bonjour, c'est ton ami Routier du Nord ici! All too rare, ze flash of genius makes its visits to you! Pierrefonds,why not? La chateau, les bains, les forests, et la jolie gare. C'est sur le Chemin de Fer du Nord, meilleur reseau de tout le Monde, certainement! Ici in link:http://www.cheminots.net/forum/topic/42755-la-gare-de-pierrefonds-oise/ Maintenant, ze express, wiz the Atlantique locomotif comme ze two you Engleesh keep for la GWR. Quelle belle machine! IMG_1145.JPG Like the TWO us English had on the GWR? Surely we only had the one cheese eating surrender atlantic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Edwardian Posted July 12, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2017 Like the TWO us English had on the GWR? Surely we only had the one cheese eating surrender atlantic? Three. No.102 La France, delivered 1903 No.130 President No.104 Alliance Both acquired in 1905 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 I'd always understood that there was no problem with the GWR atlantics, other than that the fitters were too ham-fisted to look after them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian keane Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) Three. No.102 La France, delivered 1903 No.130 President No.104 Alliance Both acquired in 1905 egg on my face! I was unaware of the latter two! Does anybody know about that great western duke (or something that looks like a duke) in France? Sent over during WW1 perchance? Edited July 12, 2017 by Killian keane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted July 12, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2017 The GWR director was Sir Watkin Williams-Wynn, Bart, a prominent Welsh Tory of the 19th Century. Ah, that makes more sense of the 2-2-2 being called 'Sir Watkin' - I'd thought it was just an eccentricity of Swindon naming. Nevertheless, according to the 1912 Supplement to the DNB, Sir Edward Watkin was a director of the Great Western for 'a short time' c. 1866. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) Good old Sir Edward probably had more railway directorships than most of us have had (individual) jobs. He was a man of boundless ambition, and doubtless very clever, although at times he was pig-headed (to put it mildly) and a little careless with his words, giving quite unnecessary offence at the drop of a hat. My favourite put-down of Watkin was one from (I think) the GN General Manager, who said that for Watkin to imply that the GN Board were not gentlemen "was to invite enquiry into his own antecedents." Which is the politest way of calling someone a bastard I have ever encountered. Those Victorians had such a way with words! As to the ancient railways of France - oh yes! But there is not world enough and time for any of us to model all the potential juicy prototypes that are out there. I would need several lifetimes just to model the English - word chosen carefully - pre-group railways I should ideally like to model, which is pretty much every one of them. Edited July 12, 2017 by Poggy1165 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) The 4-4-0 appears to be a rebuilt "Outrance". And, for a cool £1000, you can get a beautiful brass r-t-r model in H0. (There are millions of races in school sports, only one of which will my son be competing in!) Edited July 12, 2017 by Nearholmer 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Edwardian Posted July 12, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2017 Good old Sir Edward probably had more railway directorships than most of us have had (individual) jobs. He was a man of boundless ambition, and doubtless very clever, although at times he was pig-headed (to put it mildly) and a little careless with his words, giving quite unnecessary offence at the drop of a hat. My favourite put-down of Watkin was one from (I think) the GN General Manager, who said that for Watkin to imply that the GN Board were not gentlemen "was to invite enquiry into his own antecedents." Which is the politest way of calling someone a bastard I have ever encountered. Those Victorians had such a way with words! Excellent put down! I would need several lifetimes just to model the English - word chosen carefully - pre-group railways I should ideally like to model, which is pretty much every one of them. My problem exactly! The 4-4-0 appears to be a rebuilt "Outrance". (There are millions of races in school sports, only one of which will my son be competing in!) Looks rather like an 'Outré' Class to me! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted July 12, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) Whoops, I should have checked, the GWR had one Atlantic copy of the Nord engine pictured, 102, not two , as I said. The following two,103 and 104, coming later, were P.O. copies which were slightly larger engines. Turning to Edwardian's "Duke", actually there is an English connection, but a different line. The Nord express trains were in the hands of the well known "Crampton" class. To beef things up, they had a 2-2-2 built by Sharp Stewart in 1859, which was a copy of a G.N.R. design by Sturrock, which gave better performance. This was followed with copies of his 2-4-0 locos, twelve built in France in 1870. More batches followed, and later versions had a leading bogie, and this became the standard, with earlier ones being rebuilt. Over a hundred were built, forming the standard Nord passenger class until the compounds appeared, 4-4-0 then Atlantics. They were called "Outrance", being worked to the utmost effort. The last ones were withdrawn in the 1930s, a career of sixty years. Pity they never got to Norfolk, eh? The passenger train behind the "Revolver" 4-4-4T in that link was a mixed bag, the 4w brake van each end being homegrown, but the three carriages were all German post ww1 reparations from the prewar state lines, one Palatinate,one Bavarian, one Prussian. Then there's the early railcars.. Edited July 12, 2017 by Northroader 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
£1.38 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Early French railcars? 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 The 4-4-0 appears to be a rebuilt "Outrance". Obviously couldn't be a Duke. The GWR didn't have any 'trains directs'. (They all went the Great Way Round) Jim (windae picked) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted July 12, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2017 We really must return to Norfolk sometime, but in the meantime just a comment that there was nothing wrong with the French Atlantics, or the GWR version, but Churchward wisely decided that a 4-6-0 version was less prone to slipping, albeit at the cost of a more restricted set of options for the grate. Re castles, I read recently that Wales had a greater density of castles than any other country in the world, and I have just acquired a little volume entitled "The battles of Wales" by Dilys Gater (Llygod Gwalch, 2008) so I may shortly know rather more than I want/need to about many of them. I can't help feeling that for Castle Aching all you knowledgeable contributors are leading Edwardian (rather willingly, I note) up the garden path! He'll never get anything built if you kerp enticing him with delightful French railway companies, German castles etc. I'm sure he would live to have 15 projects on the go at once but I assume he also has a life to lead so perhaps two or three is about the feasible maximum! And in any case keeping up with this thread is eating into my modelling time. Keep it up! Jonathan 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted July 12, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2017 Coming a bit late to the fairytale castles but just to remind Edwardian which way the Rainbow Bridge leads... 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Edwardian Posted July 12, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2017 Coming a bit late to the fairytale castles but just to remind Edwardian which way the Rainbow Bridge leads... Wonderful, wonderful painting, and, as a Leicestershire Lad, 'twas my London station for many years. Having said that, I was actually expecting this: 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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