Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

Fortified towns in England were relatively rare. Mainly found near the Welsh or Scottish borders. Or maybe the south coast where vulnerable to those Frenchies. (e.g Rye).  Unless very important (medieval) places, like York, Norwich. 

 

However, it is entirely possible that a town, or part thereof, could grow up within a fortified site after it had been abandoned. I can't think of example offhand, but that doesn't mean that none exists. 

 

Good point.  It should be buildings ancillary to the life of the castle with the village beyond.

 

Like this overall view.  Not my thumb print, by the way.

 

The cropped picture shows the motte and bailey, which are the equivalent areas to those in my hasty lunch-time sketch.

 

Edit; I should have consulted this drawing first for another reason; the wall and gate at the foot of the motte is unnecessary.  Just the single curtain wall half way up the wall and then one skirting behind the base and opening up at the from to encompass the bailey.

 

After all, it's not Minas Tirith!

Edited July 10, 2017 by Edwardian

[TheQ]

The bailey tended to contain all the buildings required to support the castle, the stables, forge, bake house, workshops, housing for on site staff. The castle was the final inner defence at time of war, accomodation for the lord, family and immediate retainers.

 

The village was generally outside the bailey, the cottars, vills, etc working leased / owned land and of course working the demesne land. To produce food for the lord / castle staff and a little bit for themselves.

 

Many towns and cities were defended, London, Norwich, Great Yarmouth but minor villages were not. The people were expected to rush inside the bailey and help defend the castle. But as towns and cities grew the defences got surrounded by their suburbs.

[Poggy1165]

England was a relatively peaceful country. Apart from during the Anarchy, and in the border areas where things could flare up a bit, castles were more a statement of power than anything else, built to impress and overawe. Indeed, when you get into the 15th century you even get brick castles that wouldn't have stood up to the artillery of the day and were only defensive in the sense that they would undoubtedly have kept any local bands of marauders out. (Such gangs did exist, and a few became notorious.)

 

I find it somewhat ironic that the "golden age" of English castles as defensive works was during the Civil War. Yes, every fule knows that castles were useless once gunpowder and artillery became fully developed. But those clever civil war engineers knew how to make them tenable. Often by throwing up earth banks around them to absorb cannon balls. Only the heavy mortars, that lobbed an explosive charge (or stone) clean over the walls did serious damage.

[Donw]

In the Wales and the Borders the Castles were a bit more important. Not that the Welsh were well equipped to attack Castles but they housed the Garrisons which were there to deter uprisings. The Casltes were a safe place for the Garrison to live in. 

Don

[Poggy1165]

Indeed. A castle and a garrison could dominate a whole area. Unless and until the locals got really wound up.

[Edwardian]

Let's not forget that, while the Normans faced real opposition after Hastings, and had to build great numbers of castles to suppress the English, most of these were originally wooden.

 

Rebuilding in stone, at least in Norfolk, and, I suspect, elsewhere, was a thing of the 1130s and 1140s, which suggests to me that at that time - 70 to 80 years post-Conquest - the Anglo-Norman nobility still perceived the need to strengthen defences in areas that were nowhere near areas of  border-defences.  So, I infer that 'internal security' was still a big concern. 

 

Then, of course there were civil wars in the centuries that followed. The church in which I was married and my children christened dates from the early Thirteenth Century because the previous church was burnt down by the French in 1215, during the Dauphin's involvement in an English civil war.

[£1.38]

'The Anarchy' of 1135 to 1153 saw a number of temporary castles and fortifications put up by Stephen or Matilda's forces. Many went undocumented. I am not sure that any were made permanent after peace ensued.

[Poggy1165]

You had to have a "licence to crenellate" from the Crown. Of course, like most stuff in the middle ages, these could be procured for the right amount of folding stuff. Or its medieval equivalent. Henry II had lots of fun demolishing "adulterine" castles, which had been put up during the Anarchy. 

 

I suppose at some point castles went from being primarily a "defensive" thing to be primarily a "status" thing. And of course over the same transitional period, there was a revolution in living standards. By the late middle ages the interior of most lived-in castles would be a "luxury pad" in today's terms. In the earlier middle ages, they would be more like the sort of forts occupied by General Custer in the West - rather basic "army camps". I suppose life became a bit more "feminised".

[Edwardian]

I am starting to feel the fact that my studies were "Late Mediæval - Early Modern", and my first essay topic related to Edward II.

 

One day I really must get up to speed on events before 1307!

[Northroader]

Castles didn't really get going until the revolution led by Sir Walter de Disney.

[Nearholmer]

Who got a lot of his inspiration from Mad King Ludwig of Bavaria, who was, incidentally, a dead-keen railway enthusiast (like Disney), and drove locos on KBayStatB for fun.

 

I'm sure Faller or Kubrick make a kit, should you want one on your layout. It would even work in 0, using forced perspective.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

Castles didn't really get going until the revolution led by Sir Walter de Disney.

 

So much so that my daughter considers a pseudo-Mediæval world, populated with numerous anachronisms and people who speak nothing but English (with American accents, apart from the villains), as entirely normal!

 

 

Who got a lot of his inspiration from Mad King Ludwig of Bavaria, who was, incidentally, a dead-keen railway enthusiast (like Disney), and drove locos on KBayStatB for fun.

 

Ah, Neuschwanstein!

Edited July 11, 2017 by Edwardian

[Northroader]

And poor old Ludwig wasn't mad after all, just made to look like it by power grabbing courtiers. After you've caught up on early mediaeval history, James, (just watch 'Game of Thrones') I reckon the goings on in the German Lander could repay studying.

Ps. Back the studies, have a look at Les Rois Maudits 1972, subtitles, for tonight's homework.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Northroader

[Compound2632]

the previous church was burnt down by the French in 1215, during the Dauphin's involvement in an English civil war.

 

Ah yes, King Louis I & VIII - one of our more frequently overlooked monarchs. The barons were backing him against King John until the latter died, whereupon they decided the infant Henry III would suit their interests even better. Barons haven't changed...

 

Louis was welcomed with great rejoicing by the City of London and was in control of most of England for around 18 months. He was acknowledged as King but never crowned - but the neither was Edward VIII and we count him in.

[Edwardian]

I'm sure Faller or Kubrick make a kit, should you want one on your layout. It would even work in 0, using forced perspective.

 

Quite l'embarras des richesses in fact.

 

And even one in metal.  A couple of card options in 1/250 scale:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Neuschwanstein-Castle-Building-War-Games-Terrain-Landscape-Scenery-Model-Kit-/172770886652

 

https://www.amazon.com/Schreiber-Bogen-Neuschwanstein-Castle-Card-Model/dp/3870295937

 

I know I am a fan of forced perspective, but I really don't need to start a Bavarian layout!

[Northroader]

Not even the bit of Norfolk known as the Bavarian Alps?

[Nearholmer]

How about a French layout, then?

 

This is Pierrefonds, near Compiegne. It was used to film an Arthurian series by the BBC, and one of my colleagues' daughters was so keen on the whole thing that he took her there for a day out treat on her birthday. I first went there on a school trip, when I was about nine, and was mega-impressed by the drawbridge over the moat/ditch, which is at the top of a steep hill; went again last year, and was impressed all over again.

 

PS: wouldn't really forced forced perspective allow you to have a very teeny version in the very, very far distance?

Edited July 11, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

Better still, with a bit of the railway.

 

A layout in the making, I'd say.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

Not even the bit of Norfolk known as the Bavarian Alps?

 

When I become a wealthy and powerful Bond Villain, I shall purchase a disused quarry, create an artificial lake fed by a waterfall down one face of the quarry and on one bluff above I shall build and insane turreted Neo-Romanesque castle, complete with organ on which I shall learn to play Bach's Toccata .....

 

Mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-hah!!!!

 

 

How about a French layout, then?

 

This is Pierrefonds, near Compiegne. It was used to film an Arthurian series by the BBC, and one of my colleagues' daughters was so keen on the whole thing that he took her there for a day out treat on her birthday. I first went there on a school trip, when I was about nine, and was mega-impressed by the drawbridge over the moat/ditch, which is at the top of a steep hill; went again last year, and was impressed all over again.

 

 

 

   Wow!

 

 

PS: wouldn't really forced forced perspective allow you to have a very teeny version in the very, very far distance?

 

On the whole, it might be best for the layout if Mad Lord Aching had stopped at pyramids!

 

 

Better still, with a bit of the railway.

 

A layout in the making, I'd say.

 

Ooh, now, what did you have to go and do that for?

 

Irrésistible!

 

Tell me about it! Tell me about it!

[Donw]

I think our best shot at a pointy topped Castle is Castell Coch at Tongwynlais doesn't match the continentals though. 

 

Don

[Nearholmer]

A quick poem to go with Edwardian's version of the Eden Project https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43991/kubla-khan

 

For some reason, at school, we all used to think that the bit about "fast thick pants was breathing" was very funny/rude.

[DonB]

 

Ooh, now, what did you have to go and do that for?

 

Irrésistible!

 

Tell me about it! Tell me about it!

 

Intrigued by the Photographer's name.... any relation to a Belgian detective?  

[Hroth]

And poor old Ludwig wasn't mad after all, just made to look like it by power grabbing courtiers. After you've caught up on early mediaeval history, James, (just watch 'Game of Thrones') I reckon the goings on in the German Lander could repay studying.

Ps. Back the studies, have a look at Les Rois Maudits 1972, subtitles, for tonight's homework.

That noted digital TV channel "Yesterday" is currently running a series called "Royal Murder Mysteries" and last week had a highly overdramatised account of poor King Lud.  At one point it seemed more PG Wodehouse as the government sicced the loony doctor onto him, shades of Aunt Agatha setting Sir Roderick Glossop onto Bertie Wooster....

 

I must say it didn't seem much of a mystery about whodunnit!

[Northroader]

Bonjour, c'est ton ami Routier du Nord ici! All too rare, ze flash of genius makes its visits to you! Pierrefonds,why not? La chateau, les bains, les forests, et la jolie gare. C'est sur le Chemin de Fer du Nord, meilleur reseau de tout le Monde, certainement! Ici in link:http://www.cheminots.net/forum/topic/42755-la-gare-de-pierrefonds-oise/

Maintenant, ze express, wiz the Atlantique locomotif comme ze two you Engleesh keep for la GWR. Quelle belle machine!

[Hroth]

Bonjour, c'est ton ami Routier du Nord ici! All too rare, ze flash of genius makes its visits to you! Pierrefonds,why not? La chateau, les bains, les forests, et la jolie gare. C'est sur le Chemin de Fer du Nord, meilleur reseau de tout le Monde, certainement! Ici in link:http://www.cheminots.net/forum/topic/42755-la-gare-de-pierrefonds-oise/

Maintenant, ze express, wiz the Atlantique locomotif comme ze two you Engleesh keep for la GWR. Quelle belle machine!IMG_1145.JPG

So - going by the position of the lamp, its a stopping passenger?

Just about right for a Nord compound Atlantic, as Churchward determined.....

 

Hat, coat, alles OOOP!!!