Coleshill (Forge Mills ) layout and stock

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 29/11/2022 at 11:34, 46256 said:

Hello John yes it was a time of diesel failures, John R recalls the opposite effect…Royal Scots venturing into Newcastle. It’s the B1 alongside that really sets the scene, the odds of two Eastern locomotives at New Street at the same time.!

 

 

 

A quick Google threw up this from Gloucestershire Railway Memories on Cheltenham spotting notes from the time of the Big Freeze

"1V70 8.20am Newcastle – Swansea pass 1.59pm 'Jubilee' 45573 'Newfoundland'. A3 Pacific 60084 'Trigo' of 55H Leeds Neville Hill brought the train into Birmingham New Street."

It was a time of grab anything in steam. The site has reports of Kingmoor Black 5s and Newton Heath Scots turning up at Cheltenham on trains from Leeds.

2 hours ago, andytrains said:

Were the B1's sometime used on the Cambridge services?

We didn't have much on that direction in those days, and most 

of it used the Rugby - Peterborough line, changing engines at Rugby. 

B1s did come into the Midland side regularly in summer, particularly on the Cleethorpes run.

 

1 hour ago, 46256 said:

 

Photo shown previously, this is not that working, rather we think this train of Southern stock travelled through from the North East.

May be a working that used ER and SR sets on alternate weeks. I think there was a Bradford - Poole that would fit the bill.

555 was a 'K' 3-set of Mk1s, originally on the Kent Coast but transferred to Waterloo - Weymouth c1961/2. It has a Maunsell coach as a strengthener and a Maunsell set behind it.

 

Eric

 

 

[manna]

On 29/11/2022 at 21:17, 46256 said:

Mystery solved. I met up with my rail enthusiast mates last night. The subject of A3 s visiting Brum came up. Don who has contributed a number of photos spoke of a conversation he had recently with an ex BR employee. This gent had been working in offices in Brum near to New Street. He had a phone call from a mate who worked at Saltley…he said “ You will not believe what has just passed Saltley on the way to New Street. “ 

 

He rushed to New Street..with camera…here is the result 60084 Trigo…and a B1 alongside….you couldn’t make it up! Date 16th February 1963

G'Day Folks

 

Nice to see a bit of Class at New St...............

 

manna

[TheSignalEngineer]

16 hours ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

Nice to see a bit of Class at New St...............

 

manna

At least it's not the Flying Moneypit, although it did visit New Street at least once after Alan Pegler bought it. I missed that time and don't know the route, but in March 1964 it did pass Water Orton. Here it is heading to the Camp Hill line at King's Norton on the way back from Cardiff to Retford.

 

 

Flying Scotsman at Kings Norton (pjs,0615) by Geoff Dowling, on Flickr

 

I was on the platform just out of sight. It was very cold and trying to snow. Last coach is the Devon Belle observation car.

Edited December 1, 2022 by TheSignalEngineer
Link updsted

[46256]

Hello Eric, I saw Scotsman in 1969 go through Water Orton travelling from the Birmingham direction. 
 

Don had also photographed it a few months earlier on a similar working . The photo has appeared on this thread, now lost because of the changes last year. It was notable as it also showed a totally new set of lights had been installed in the sidings….months before closure !

[46256]

Some more photos, more Eastern visitors to the Midlands… 60114 going through Bromford Bridge on way home. B1 resting at Saltley. The two views looking towards Hams Hall . The photographer(s) are standing nearer to the village than where Don photographed the HST and looking in the opposite direction. The A46 Road bridge can be seen. Today Hams Hall is gone and the M42 dominates the current scene

[TheSignalEngineer]

3 hours ago, 46256 said:

Hello Eric, I saw Scotsman in 1969 go through Water Orton travelling from the Birmingham direction. 

In 1964/5 it worked through Water Orton on at least 4 dates. The one you saw in 1969 may have been when it went to Tyseley Open Day.

[46256]

Yes it had been to Tyseley, quite a crowd had gathered by the station, including many non enthusiasts, such was the engine’s celebrity. I think it was a Sunday. It would have been the first steam engine,  I had seen go through the station, since steam had been withdrawn from the Birmingham area in early 1967. We crossed over the running lines from the lifted goods yard,  and stood in the empty storage sidings on the other side of the station platform. This would have been an unthinkable trespass only a couple of years earlier.

 

I have been looking through my archive and unable to find Dons photo, not of this occasion but an earlier visit. I will ask him to forward me it again. In the meantime I have found this photo by Don again recording an Eastern B1 coming off the slow lines from Coleshill and Whitacre.

 

Note the kids standing on the wall of the Dog Inn, quite a drop onto the floor below as Andy can testify

Edited December 1, 2022 by 46256

[andytrains]

When I fell off the wall I was at the left end of it, luckily or not, depending which way you look at it!

[46256]

Yes it does rise significantly as you walk up it towards The Derby end…done it many times….the folly of youth. The sort of train witnessed from the area just under the footbridge, with the gate to the Dog car park behind you. The foremost tracks where coins were placed. I just about remember 4fs but most likely seen were 8fs, 9fs and black fives.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Once spent an after work session in The Dog with the signal gang. One member was a regular there. I caught a train into Birmingham and woke up at Saltley. I realised the platform was on the wrong side, having slept all the way into New Street and out again. 

[46256]

Scotsman going through Water Orton 29th September 1968…..picture clearly showing the new lights installed on the walkway past the stowage sidings to the main yards….all closed a month earlier! Photograph by Don Taggart 

Edited December 3, 2022 by 46256

[TheSignalEngineer]

Arriving at Tyseley  on that morning.

 

[46256]

Ok this should really be in modifying rtr…upgrading Lima class 40. 
 

My original split headcode Lima on left. I have two Bachmann types as well, indicator and central headcode. I wanted the split headcode version but baulked at the then price of the Bachmann model.

 

I purchased the Lima version, weathered the model, and there it rested for quite a while. My main memories are of BR diesel traction in the late sixties and seventies. I do not however count myself as an expert on their form and detail, certainly not to the extent of my steam outline models. I am aware of the criticisms from d and e modellers concerning the current offerings of class 40 s.  In any event I sought to improve the running qualities of my Lima model by removing the ring field motor and replacing it with a cd alternative. This accomplished…oh dear the motor I selected was a really poor specimen. I then looked on eBay for a replacement Hornby railroad chassis… one was eventually sourced…on the right of photo...together with another Lima body attached. I have since found a suitable cd motor for my original chassis. This is wider….confession time…I have had to remove the centre wheels on the power bogie to accommodate its width. I view this as a necessary sacrifice given the extra power provided. 
 

This project has led me to read other modellers efforts with these models, not least upgrading the Lima bodies. I have purchased replacement windscreens from shawplan. The first has been added, what an improvement! More soon

 

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by 46256

[46256]

Saltley was allocated three 9fs equipped with the Berkeley mechanical stokers to work the 4 40 pm Water Orton to Carlisle, via Derby and Settle and Carlisle line. The longest booked working for a single fireman in the country. Prior to their introduction Saltley always ensured their best black five was available. I have a number of Bachmann 9 fs , however the introduction by Hornby of 92167, one of the trio, meant I had to have one. Santa has happily obliged. The prototype photo is I believe of a black five on the train. My model, just staged now…a little too clean even for a brand new loco and no lamps…or accessories added, it is Christmas after all. 
 

 A seasonal view of a 4f on a more mundane working , added in honour of the day.

 

Looking,  at the black five I am convinced it is this particular working, Terry Essery in his book Saltley Firing days wrote they filled the tender to the brim, and even then it was touch and go on getting to Carlisle. You can see the mound of coal, high above the cab.

My new 9f has a half empty tender at present. The coal for the stokers, had to be especially selected , or would cause a jam. This happened to Terry on one trip, which resulted in hand firing. The fire hole was reduced, to allow the stoker to be fitted, thus making manual firing even more difficult. Colleagues had to carry him from the footplate at the end of the shift…..the glamour of steam footplate life.

Edited December 26, 2022 by 46256

[andytrains]

Funnily enough I am reading Terry Essery's book at the moment. He has only got to the banking link at the moment, so you have ruined the Carlisle runs for me now! Only joking this is the third time I am reading it and I find some of it funnier and entertaining every time.

[46256]

Andy it’s one of my favourite books….I can’t decide on the Carlisle run, or Galatea being thrashed….but on reflection it’s his time at Water Orton yards being allowed to drive the elderly 3f that really resonates. I can see those yards now and not just in model form.
 

[46256]

Just added the accessories, including a nicely posed fireman and driver. The two figures are posed sitting, on the seats provided in the cab. The fireman ( Terry)  has his shovel resting by his side as he leaves the yards at Water Orton. Andy will verify this will not be the case, later on in the journey!

Edited December 26, 2022 by 46256

[46256]

Finished the etch window replacements on class 40 Lima  bodies, shown for the record. One has a CD replacement motor, added lead and even more powerful than the other shown, which has the excellent Hornby railroad chassis. They have also had etch wipers, and specific lazerglaze. These are all great products from Mr Hanson, excellent service as well…usual disclaimer.

 

To fit glazing is a problem, requiring removal of a lot of the window plastic. I read the work of the Mostyn P4 group…”barrow more times” article on improving these locomotives. I confess I only altered the windscreens,  and added screw links and some pipe work. To fill gaps and secure the glazing without fogging requires use of the superglue accelerator. This allows sanding when dry. I am very pleased with the result. 

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by 46256

[46256]

In correspondence with John R , touching amongst other things on my latest, totally inappropriate,  additions to my locomotive fleet. A Heljan EM2… ( birthday),  a silver fox body, Bachmann chassis 18000 gas turbine ( eBay auction fever) and lastly on order E2001 . I seem to recall woodhead electrics being dragged through by western gas turbines on a regular basis….or is my memory playing tricks?

I’m in the process of converting my coaching fleet ( 200 plus) to magnetic couplings using the hunt elite system . I had standardised on small tension locks, but whilst working fine on my goods stock, they fail regularly on my coaches. I get fed up of hearing the clunk of a loco running into the back of a discarded portion of its train .

Edited February 17, 2023 by 46256

[John Tomlinson]

I thought I had a lot of coaches, but I'm sure it's a fair few less than 200+, so thanks for the nudge that I need to go out and get some more!

 

Strange things being towed, the older I get the more I think there's lots of things happened that are lost in the mists of time. Certainly the special locos you've listed would have been dragged to Open Days and Exhibitions all over the country, particularly in the time when the fairly new British Railways was trying to impress the public with its modern credentials.

 

John.

[46256]

Thanks John, I recall reading, how the late David Jenkinson ( one of my modelling heroes) justified all manner of strangers in his collection. The sheer love of locomotives and stock .  One beast that tempts me, and ironically did travel through en route to Bromsgrove , is the U1 Gresley garratt. To buy one from DJH together with wheelset and motor….£500 plus. 
 

Of course if I stopped buying inappropriate ones and saved my pennies, or sold some of my carriages, most of which never get run.

 

I’ve never been accused of being sensible mind, as my wife will confirm.

[46256]

And just to confirm my madness, DJH U1 garratt just purchased on eBay for a great price….kit and wheelset included! I will be putting high level motors, in , the same as my LMS versions. I will be showing the build here on this thread, thus justifying it being in kit building section for once. Now how do I inform my wife of this great news….mmmm

Edited February 17, 2023 by 46256

[46256]

Just to whet the appetite three photos of 69999, the first at Bromsgrove, on its initial visit in1949…. numbers on tenders and British railways on its side. The second, at Kings Norton, when on it’s subsequent tour in 1955. This is how I shall model it, cabside numbers and early totems on tenders. The third in company of big Bertha…the loco kit that started this thread a few year’s ago 

Edited February 17, 2023 by 46256

[John Tomlinson]

I'm sure you know that by the time of the second visit in 1955 it had been converted to burn oil at Gorton (I think in 1954). Your 1949 shot indeed enables the top of the coal space, then open, to be seen.

 

I did research this a long while ago, and it seems that this was just an in-house one-off job, with no detailed drawings made, or at least saved.

 

Not helpful for a modeller, particularly with the dearth of photos, but it seems to imply to me that there was simply a covering metal sheet over the coal space, so as to turn that into a fluid tight oil store.

 

More positively, if no one really knows precisely how it looked, it follows that they can't claim however you've done it is wrong!

 

John.

[46256]

Thanks John for the information. On looking at those photos earlier one of the captions mentioned it has been converted to oil firing , it stated in 1952. On reading that, and confirmed by your post I thought it would require the coal area being plated over. The DJH model of Bertha as recounted earlier on this  thread required a major reworking of the tender to represent it in BR days.I’m hoping this kit won’t need that sort of reworking. My main problem with Bertha, which may be a problem with this is sideplay on the driving wheels to get around my relatively tight radius corners. We shall see…My eight coupled comet 8f and 28 xx chassis manage it, but anticipate less clearance because of the thicker brass used by DJH in their chassis sides. I’m really looking forward to its arrival .