The Whisky thread

[Bert Cheese]

Waitrose have a few whiskys on offer at present, tonight's picks:

 

Highland Park 12 y/o reduced from £35 to £28...I may have had the last one from Chandlers Ford branch though

Bunnahabhain 12 y/o reduced from £37 to £29...a lighter Islay and very rarely seen at reduced pricing,it seemed rude not to indulge.

[45156]

Morrinsons -

 

Gkenmorangie 10yo £26 down from £34

 

Aberlour 12yo £25 down from £33

 

SIngleton Tailfire (don't know this one - yet) £28 down from £35.

 

Also offers on Glen Moray but only a couple of quid - and IMHO a poor malt anyway.

 

And small reductions on Jura (no age statement) and Jura Superstition.

Edited August 2, 2016 by 45156

[45156]

Has anybody got an opinion on Morrisons' vatted malt, Signature Distillers Choice with a 5yo age statement.

[Dick Turpin]

You know what. Autumn is soon upon us, and the major retailers will want to be shifting a few bottles on offer before they move into the pre-Christmas period proper, so could all we enthusiasts keep a look out for bargains? Haven't had a good look around myself yet, but in previous years there have been some too good to miss offers. So here’s to finding a nice Autumn snifter to suit the eventual arrival of more moody weather.

[Phil Bullock]

Yes Autumn is here - and that means grayling fishing on the river Wye for a week

 

This year with Jimbo and Downendian, also non railway friends Sandy Geyer and John Smith

 

Only question is....how many bottles do we need to take?

 

 

Phil

 

[Bert Cheese]

Yes Autumn is here - and that means grayling fishing on the river Wye for a week

 

This year with Jimbo and Downendian, also non railway friends Sandy Geyer and John Smith

 

Only question is....how many bottles do we need to take?

 

Whisky.jpg

 

Phil

 

 

So assuming 5 of you going for a week?

I'd say you need one more bottle...another Islay to balance the Speyside malts perhaps?

Edited September 21, 2016 by Bert Cheese

[Northmoor]

Just discovered this old thread so will resurrect it (unless someone can point me to another more up to date).

 

I only started drinking - and of course, becoming slightly obsessive about - single malt whisky regularly last year, but am enjoying (as well as a couple of blends received as father's day or Christmas gift from family) Ardbeg's 10y.o and Ledaig Rioja Cask at the moment.  Happy to report both products are excellent.

 

The collection of empties in the garage (keeping the bottles and packaging is an important part of this hobby) is also growing nicely.

[Phil Bullock]

And missing out of that old photo is what is now my favourite.... Auchentoshan . A wonderful lowland with hints of toffee and caramel....

[Pete the Elaner]

I was converted to single malts after a trip to Inverness in 2018 when a friend wanted to do a couple of distillery tours, so we visited Glen Ord (Singleton's) & Tomatin. I have never seen Singleton from Glen Ord on sale anywhere. They explained that they have 3 distilleries, each making whisky tailored to a different market, Dufftown is what is usually sold in the UK & Glen Ord was for Asia, but when I visited Thailand last, I could only find Dufftown.

I now appreciate what goes into a whisky & can taste some differences. Most blends now seem to me to taste more muddled than singles.

 

Ardbeg 10 is rather nice if you like smoky whisky. I also like the other 2 major Islay south coast brands; Laphroaig & Lagavulin. Smoky whisky is not to everyone's liking though.

[tigerburnie]

Taste is a funny old thing and recommending something like a whisky is fraught with dangers, I'm lucky to live in Scotland and can see a distillery from my living room window, I have visited dozens of distilleries and tasted more hundreds of drams, this does not make me an expert however. I read a lot of books, some of the tasting notes I agreed with 100% then the next one by the same person, I disagreed with. I can recommend visiting the regions and making your own mind up, Islay is a lovely, wet and midgie infested island, but I am going back again, apart from the whisky, the wildlife and scenery are superb, nothing to do there mind, no shops and not many cafes either. Cambletown, stunning, the lowlands superb and the highlands and Speyside some of the nicest scenery anywhere. My taste, single barrel bottling of an unchill filtered, non coloured dram of at least 8 years old, but not too old as all I can taste is the barrel when you get past 20 years old. I like peated ones, but also like sea shore characters like Old Pultney or Oban from the big companies or any of the Cambletownies. Any bottle without an age statement on it usually means its usually a mix of barrels, mostly young spirit of less than 5 years old, now some like this taste, I find it harsh and lacking in depth. My favourite is Port Ellen, yes I know you now need spend around a £1k a bottle for one, but it's only money and the fact that me drinking a bottle annoys collectors amuses me no end.

[Northmoor]

7 minutes ago, tigerburnie said:

Taste is a funny old thing and recommending something like a whisky is fraught with dangers, I'm lucky to live in Scotland and can see a distillery from my living room window, I have visited dozens of distilleries and tasted more hundreds of drams, this does not make me an expert however. I read a lot of books, some of the tasting notes I agreed with 100% then the next one by the same person, I disagreed with. I can recommend visiting the regions and making your own mind up, Islay is a lovely, wet and midgie infested island, but I am going back again, apart from the whisky, the wildlife and scenery are superb, nothing to do there mind, no shops and not many cafes either. Cambletown, stunning, the lowlands superb and the highlands and Speyside some of the nicest scenery anywhere. My taste, single barrel bottling of an unchill filtered, non coloured dram of at least 8 years old, but not too old as all I can taste is the barrel when you get past 20 years old. I like peated ones, but also like sea shore characters like Old Pultney or Oban from the big companies or any of the Cambletownies. Any bottle without an age statement on it usually means its usually a mix of barrels, mostly young spirit of less than 5 years old, now some like this taste, I find it harsh and lacking in depth. My favourite is Port Ellen, yes I know you now need spend around a £1k a bottle for one, but it's only money and the fact that me drinking a bottle annoys collectors amuses me no end.

I guess it only annoys the collectors who don't own one yet, if you're reducing the supply?!!!  £1k per bottle is certainly well out of my price range; at the moment I buy to drink and to collect, but my price limit for either is what I would be prepared to drink, so I stick to about £4/dram and there is an awful lot of good whisky for less than £112/bottle.

I totally agree about expecting to match others' tastes 100%; sadly whisky like so many things attracts its snobs who insist you must like certain things to be a serious enthusiast.  I have thoroughly enjoyed one or two whiskys that get very mixed reviews on-line.

[tigerburnie]

My palate can change too, I only have one bottle open at a time, but like to ring the changes, price is often the main influencer, I don't drink really expensive ones unless there's an occasion(like there's a Friday in the week lol). What is on offer makes a choice for the routine stuff, but I do have a couple of specialists who have the stuff you never see in the supermarkets, I don't buy whisky when there's not an "r" in the month, so after my abstinence, come the end of August a trip over the hills to Aboyne or maybe to the Edradour distillery to get a "special one" to set me up for the winter, usually one bottle a month, though most folk buy me whisky for Christmas, so I might double the consumption for a bit. I did have a spell of only buying whiskies from "lost distilleries" but I spent a lot of money buying some that were barely drinkable, I could see why some of them closed, though to be fair go back a couple of decades and almost all whisky made was for blending.

[Northmoor]

20 minutes ago, tigerburnie said:

My palate can change too, I only have one bottle open at a time, but like to ring the changes, price is often the main influencer, I don't drink really expensive ones unless there's an occasion(like there's a Friday in the week lol). What is on offer makes a choice for the routine stuff, but I do have a couple of specialists who have the stuff you never see in the supermarkets, I don't buy whisky when there's not an "r" in the month, so after my abstinence, come the end of August a trip over the hills to Aboyne or maybe to the Edradour distillery to get a "special one" to set me up for the winter, usually one bottle a month, though most folk buy me whisky for Christmas, so I might double the consumption for a bit. I did have a spell of only buying whiskies from "lost distilleries" but I spent a lot of money buying some that were barely drinkable, I could see why some of them closed, though to be fair go back a couple of decades and almost all whisky made was for blending.

The appeal of collecting from the Lost Distilleries is completely understandable but other than one of the Caperdonichs issues last year (which I won't be opening for a long time) it's unlikely I'll be getting more; as I said before, "Out of the drinking price range".  However, one or two of the whisky bars in London (where one day, I'll be working again) do sell them so might tick off one or two distilleries that way in future.

[adb968008]

The nice thing about whisky is its not a fashion thing, you can turn taps on and make more, but its a 5-15 year process for the results.

At the same time simply “making more” dilutes the brand, so we see more different makers labels for special editions etc, which means more occasional non-aged blends… “select reserve”, “distillers reserve” etc etc.. and of course secondary flavoured barrels, with 2nd hand Jack Daniels casks being a favourite, used to hide younger ages calling them “bourbon” cask etc.

 

Much of this though is export, and how covid has impacted that we have to see (but again, Whisky is a long road journey), even if blend sales fell, we may see more 10-12-15 etc rather than younger ones.

What it does mean though is if you see one you like, and its a new labelled blend.. stock up as it can dissapear as quickly as it appears.

 

Me ive a large collection, and if I find one I like I’ll buy a bunch, Ive speculated a few too, and if Ive a winner Ive auctioned a couple to subsidise the rest, if not.. i’ll drink it and consider it a subsidised one.

 

of course for the distillers, all this is bonus, those cheap supermarket blends outsell all the above.

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by adb968008

[Northmoor]

I'm new to this whisky appreciation thing @adb968008but following a similar path.  I drink enough to get through 4-5 bottles p.a, but also buy 3-4 bottles p.a to stash away as a small retirement investment.  My thinking is if the "market" in unopened whisky seems to be something like this (although I would disagree with one point, whisky has certainly at times in the past been a "fashionable" investment*):

1. 95% were filled in such numbers as never to be collectible, so their value will only ever rise with general inflation.
2. 4% are interesting enough and/or from smaller distilleries that supply diminishes with time, so they rise in value at a few % above inflation.
3. 1% are sufficiently rare, positively reviewed but also consumed enough to become collectible, so rise at perhaps 10% above inflation.

There is plenty of interesting stuff out there (even supermarkets have some very interesting bottles these days, Tescos were selling 16y.o Lagavulin until recently) so it is easy to avoid the most popular volume issues, but I'll still assume that after 15-20 years I might have quite a lot that hasn't earned me anything, so it will be a terrible hardship to have to consume it in my armchair in retirement.....  I cannot see the point of collecting anything purely with the intention of making money out of it, you have to enjoy "using" the item as well.  Otherwise we become those people who buy E-type Jags and store them in an air-conditioned warehouse; Philistines.

 

*I have a relative who invested in 3 casks, 30 years ago.  One later turned out to be a fraudulent sale, one was sold some years ago but the other one, they still own.  Should be very nice for bottling now I would have thought......

 

[adb968008]

Not sure on the methodology, but in my own case I bought more bottles of Glenfiddich Snow Phoenix from Waitrose than Israel received as a country. At £40 a bottle, I considered it a bargain at the time, Ive drunk a few since.
Last time I sold an empty bottle/tin it fetched over £100, that was a few years back, a full one is er.. rather unjustifiable for me to replace.

I know many speculate in whisky and theres a whole industry on auctions, spun after ebay messed about with whisky sales c2015 (shades of which I see in model railways this year), but my own philosophy is I only buy it if I like it, and if its a restricted edition I will buy a number, so Ive got my taste for the long haul, in the case of Snow Phoenix, I’ll probably limit my intake, and take up something new, Yamasaki Chita is a bargain for its price.

 

That way there is no losing, if it price rises, take it & reinvest, if it doesnt drink and enjoy. Just dont buy for speculating, leave that for the professionals & millionaires.

 

My personal favourite is Glendronach 12, pre-2002 (identified by a yellow rather than red top label on the bottle an 40% vs 43%).. it was the last whisky made in Scotland in a distillery entirely powered by Steam. When the distillery was sold to Ben Riach, they converted the site to electric, relaunched was Octarine (8 years old exclusive to France in 2010).. also a very nice whisky… neither are particularly valuable, but both my favourites, but I had to stock up or miss out.., the 12 pre-2002 is near impossible to find (but not expensive), and the 8 is not for sale in the UK… the post 2012 12 doesnt taste the same…

 

another oddity, and cheap one is Cardhu 12 Pure Malt… Diageo got into a dispute with this, as demand in Spain was greater than Scotland could supply, so they tried to mix Cardhu with other distilleries and subtly changed it from “Single Malt” to “Pure Malt”, The SWA were having none if it and a legal dispute followed. Soon it was reverted back to Single Malt, and the taste of Pure Malt became history, but today you find them for sale for less than a new 12 Single Malt Cardhu in auctions, for c£30 you get an interesting shortlived blend with a good talking point.

 

I save those for tastings around mine, which have reputation as a good night. I’m fortunate to have a relative in the right area of the highlands and a neighbour here with a very interesting day job here in the south that links very well with speyside region, to give me heads up on whats changing.

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by adb968008

[BoD]

I only ever bought one whisky with a mind to a possible investment.  It was a Connoisseur's Choice bottle of St Magdalene.  I spotted it and at the time it was being sold in the same price range as other malt whiskies - around £20 at the time.  No, I haven't drank it.

 

Unable to afford a collection of full bottles I started, as many do, collecting miniatures. I have managed to find at least one expression from most distilleries over many years.  I don't think I will ever add the missing ones as I baulk at the price if I (very rarely) find one.   It seems though, that miniatures are out of favour with many distilleries,  1/3 bottles seeming to be the choice now. 

 

I can't imagine the collection being worth much (although a few individual bottles may be, I must check) but the pleasure was in the collecting and finding ones I didn't already have.  Most were bought before internet sales became the in thing.

 

On 03/07/2021 at 20:31, tigerburnie said:

maybe to the Edradour distillery to get a "special one"

 

I wonder if the malts matured there taste any different to the malts matured at their own distilleries.  Perhaps an experiment or two is called for.

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by BoD

[adb968008]

9 minutes ago, BoD said:

 

I wonder if the malts matured there taste any different to the malts matured at their own distilleries.  Perhaps an experiment or two is called for.

 

I’m not quite understanding the sentence, but maturation stops once the product is bottled.

A 12 will always be a 12, even in 25 years time, once bottled.

 

But moving a barrel from one warehouse to another in another geography, climate etc, will affect taste over time.

[BoD]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I’m not quite understanding the sentence,

 

The now owner of Edradour distillery sources casks from other distilleries, matures them in the warehouses at Edradour then bottles them under their Signatory label.  It was tigerburnie's mention of going there to get a 'special one' that set me thinking.

Edited July 5, 2021 by BoD

[BoD]

5 hours ago, BoD said:

can't imagine the collection being worth much (although a few individual bottles may be, I must check)

 

Perhaps things have changed and I need to rethink that.  One picked at random...

 

 

... and a quick google

 

 

It's by no means the rarest in my collection either.  I know privately I wouldn't get anywhere near that but.....

 

[Northmoor]

9 minutes ago, BoD said:

 

Perhaps things have changed and I need to rethink that.  One picked at random...

 

 

... and a quick google

 

 

It's by no means the rarest in my collection either.  I know privately I wouldn't get anywhere near that but.....

 

There certainly is a market for miniatures, in fact they are sold as much to be collectibles as drink samples.  I may be wrong but get the impression that for collectors, the appeal is in the bottle designs/packaging whereas with standard bottles it is more about the contents.  For me, (very slowly) building a collection of standard bottles is a combination of both.  

[tigerburnie]

The subject of moving barrels about is an interesting one, not only do independent bottlers do this, but so distilleries, there are distilleries with no bonded warehousing and there those(usually part of a "larger group") who share storage. The short answer is that moving whisky away from the "home" distillery is bound to have an effect on the contents, a barrel(still breathing through the wood and is affected by change in location) is moved from, for example Islay, is then stored in Elgin in a Warehouse next to the Tesco's fuel filling station and supermarket car park, is going taste a hell of a lot different to one that breathes salty island air within a few feet of the sea. The question I ask my self is does it matter? Having tasted pretty much most of the output of a very large Islay distilleries own bottlings, tasting an independent offering can actually add to the joy of drinking, what you need to know is where has the barrel been kept. I steer clear of those kept in large industrial conurbations and go for the afore mentioned types like Signatory from Edradour that are held out in the Perthshire countryside.

[BoD]

2 hours ago, Northmoor said:

I may be wrong but get the impression that for collectors, the appeal is in the bottle designs/packaging whereas with standard bottles it is more about the contents.

I think that there is something in that. When I was building my collection I always tried to get a bottle with the distillery’s own label.  The ones I have from the ‘independents’ were as a last resort where I knew no distillery bottling was available and for sake of completing the collection. 

Edited July 5, 2021 by BoD

[Northmoor]

On 04/07/2021 at 23:06, adb968008 said:

Not sure on the methodology, but in my own case I bought more bottles of Glenfiddich Snow Phoenix from Waitrose than Israel received as a country. At £40 a bottle, I considered it a bargain at the time, Ive drunk a few since.
Last time I sold an empty bottle/tin it fetched over £100, that was a few years back, a full one is er.. rather unjustifiable for me to replace.

Wow, I've just looked up what this sells for (except that it's out of stock at my regular retailers).......... Well done on that one.

[Northmoor]

As a wedding anniversary present to self, this week I bought a bottle of the Glendronach Revival 15y.o.  It's finished in Spanish sherry casks which is really obvious from the first "nose", it's a gorgeous aroma.  Bit more of a kick than I was expecting too but not unpleasant.  My most expensive bottle to date but a really excellent dram, highly recommended.  I can see why it was Whisky of the Year only a few years ago.