RMweb Gold BobM Posted January 3, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2019 Ballasting point work can be a bit of a pain Bob. I've never ballasted a peco point so I can only tell you how I did EM, S4 and hand built 00. I haven't got far enough along with my home layout to worry about that yet. I use 3 pieces of masking tape 2 bits along the switch blades and 1 piece across the tiebar so that it covers the point timbers each side of the tiebar. I start with one of the point blades that's in the open position and push the tape down into the gap and then change the point so that it traps the tape against the outer rail and then push it down over the rail and the switch blade and trim it so that it only covers the rails and not the crossing timbers. Then I do the other side and set the point in the center position then cover the tiebar and the timbers each side and trim the tape off at the end of the timbers and that's it. The only other thing I do is make sure any moving parts are oiled up first. What you have to avoid is getting any glue on the top of the little tab on the outside of the switch rail which is the bit that ensures electrical contact. In fact most electrical problems with peco points can usually be traced back to those little tabs. Regards Lez. Cheers Lez...... Will take the ballasting of any of my points with time and a great deal of care, even if I leave most these until later in construction of the layout.....I am minded to test the ballasting of turnouts by undertaking work on the trap points and if these 'lock' in the working position then I can leave with it 'not working' if you catch my drift....? Work on the layout this evening involved.......removing the fixing screws which held down the tubing prior to last nights gluing......all seems okay now that they are gone and all the associated cranks and points operate well....... The rail sides have been painted on the siding which had its sleepers 'grimmed' last evening........ Will update when further work has been completed...... Regards always....Hope all are well.....? Bob 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 I found painting under the point and avoiding ballast near the moving bits worked. The paint disguises the lack of ballast but the ballast doesn’t gunk up the moton 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BobM Posted January 4, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2019 Evening Guys.....Hope all are well....? An update on this evenings 'work' on Cambrian Street.....which continues to revolve around the goods yard and pilot loco sidings......... The areas indicated here....... have had their sleepers grimmed and rail sides painted and weathered........ - the standard mix of colours have been used for the rail sides and in the basic ratio as previously, however I have not been too specific in these ratios as I believe there should be variability in these hues just as you may find along any track......each section of rail seems to have its own 'life'.....some lengths rusting a greater rate than others, others receiving a larger accumulation of oil, grease and muck, depending upon stock is static or moving along it repeatedly.....or whether a length of track has been lifted, replaced, damaged, repaired or perhaps even in some cases 'overlooked' or 'neglected'.....? Will update when further work is done.....possibly spreading a layer of ballast tomorrow....? Some areas may not be ballasted as, as yet I don't want to get too close to any of the pointwork until confident..... Regards always..... Bob 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BobM Posted January 4, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) Hi...... Just thinking...... (which I know I've been warned is dangerous)....... would the 4' through the interior of the goods shed have been 'concreted' to the rail tops, rather than ballasted.....? Moor Street Goods yard appears to be so....? Warwickshire Railways Copyright Regards always,,,,, Bob Edited January 4, 2019 by BobM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted January 4, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2019 I've seen both Bob. There is no right answer I think it depended on the types of traffic and what facilities were available in the whole goods yard. I remember Bletchley goods yard still in operation when I was 7 or 8 and the Bedford train ran right along the edge of the goods yard, but that was unlike any goods yard I've ever seen anywhere else. Everywhere else around me was closed apart from Bedford and Kettering. Regards Lez. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BobM Posted January 5, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) Evening Guys....Hope you're all chipper....? After having had a think regarding whether to or not to infill the 4' with concrete extending through the goods shed......the thought was 'not to'.....reasoning being small shed short length of rail for all 'the effort' the overall effect would basically not seen either ....so ballasting was the decision..... This evenings 'escapade' on Cambrian Street was to begin spreading ballast on to the sidings and roads within the goods yard after a few hours spent basically 'switching off' whilst depositing the ballast, spreading and levelling this is the result........ Will spend a further while spreading and levelling before moving on......... I have purposely not spread any ballast close to any of the moving parts of any points........ Have ballasted some of the areas which are non-moving on the crossover........ Tried to disguise the wire in tube and operational cranks as much as possible at the moment without intentionally interfering with their function and operation..... Will take the 'fixing' of the ballast probably in stages, each stage very carefully done and may even use a pipet close to 'sensitive areas' such is my nervousness...... Take care guys..... Regards always....... Bob Edited January 5, 2019 by BobM 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted January 6, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2019 Would not a goods yard be ballasted with ash Bob? I mean i don't have any idea what the GW's ballasting policy was, or even the midlands come to that but it seems a bit of a waste of premium limestone. The image I have of a goods yard in my head is everything buried up to the tops of the sleepers in black/grey ash. But that could just be my rose coloured and railway tinted glasses. Regards Lez. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BobM Posted January 6, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) Hi... I'm unsure too...I am aware that ash was only used where concrete sleepers had been used as these wouldn't decay being buried in ash as wooden ones had a tendency too....hence why also concrete or cobbles/ sets were also seen I believe....? Maybe I've overdone the areas away from the tracks...? Perhaps I should leave the tracks ballasted but the flat areas between as earth/ grass...? We'll see how it goes...? Maybe I should go for something similar to this...tracks ballasted flat areas...fine sand - Warwickshire Railways Copyright Regards always with thanks Bob Edited January 6, 2019 by BobM 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Bob try not to worry or overthink it. I used Carrs ash ballast before and it was great stuff but... very hard to lay and now I don’t think you can even get it. Keep up the good work Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BobM Posted January 6, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) Bob try not to worry or overthink it. I used Carrs ash ballast before and it was great stuff but... very hard to lay and now I don’t think you can even get it. Keep up the good work Hi..... I could ballast the tracks as per usual and use Arley ash between in the flatter areas....blending the two with weatherhing / grassing....getting a bit 'wobbly' here...? Regards always... Bob Edited January 6, 2019 by BobM 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb67 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 There's a few options Bob, one I like is Chris Nevards method of fine sand and DAS clay over the top. Could you test some different methods before commiting to doing it? Take your time before you decide and there's no rush. Steve 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BobM Posted January 6, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) Hi Guys.....All well I'm hoping...... Thank you as always for the kind comments regarding the ballasting of the goods yard, all of which I've heartily taken onboard and set me a thinking.....firstly that yes the ballasting of the entire area had been excessive......(an error which I admit) therefore I have removed all but the track ballast and the 'dusting' I have adhered around the pointwork cranks as an 'aide-memoire'...... At the nursery we use a fine, dry, fine silver sand for use in compost preparation which I'm thinking may be a suitable medium for the method suggested on Chris Nevards site..... This has provided I believe two methods,,,,, Option 1 Leave the ballast I have shown here In fill the gaps with a thin layer of fine silver sand.....for the flat ground areas.... Flood the this sand and ballast area in the normal pva / water method......allow this to set... Then use a thin DAS clay layer to work across all the levels and into the set ballast / sand....as per Chris Nevard site...? Option 2 Remove and save all ballast currently down...... Spread silver sand as alternative on yard/ tracks pva / water allowing to set apply DAS clay This is the state of (ballast removed) play this evening...... Comments on options appreciated,,,,,, Regards always...... Bob Edited January 6, 2019 by BobM 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BobM Posted January 6, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2019 Hi...... Have been researching..... found this....? Copying this useful information which reading through it is a wealth of advice........from this site.... https://www.igg.org.uk/rail/2-track/002-index.htm https://www.igg.org.uk/rail/index.htm#track Reference track and ballast....... Most lines used crushed stone ballast, limestone and granite were both common. These materials start off white but soon develop a coating of brown or rust coloured brake dust and black sooty deposits from the steam locomotives. Since the introduction of diesel power there has been a steady deposit of oil along the track between the rails darkening the ballast to almost black in stations where trains tend to loiter. From observations on my local line it has taken three years to turn the fresh laid white ballast to a patchy brown. Other ballast materials were also used, depending upon what was available locally, in Wales broken slate was common in the North and the dark waste from lead mining was common in the South. Some ballast had high levels of toxic impurities (such as the lead mine waste) which inhibited weed growth, where this was not the case it was (and remains) necessary to treat the track with weed-killer to prevent the plants clogging up the ballast and reducing the drainage. Where track was laid in goods yards, marshalling yards and industrial premises where speeds were slow and uneven track was not such a threat a simple bed of ashes and cinders was laid. The track in these areas was not on a raised earth bank and this is clearly visible when you look at a yard area beside a main line. If you are using cork strip under your track do not use this in yard areas and paint the ballast and surrounding ground black. On quiet branch lines ash ballast was also sometimes used for the running lines, although this would be laid on a conventional earth bank to assist drainage. Ash ballast tends to allow the track to sink deeper in than broken stone, often it crept up to the sides of the rail and its finer appearance is relevant to the modeller. Fine sand serves for conventional ballast, for ash something rather finer is required, I have had success with Chinchilla sand (from the pet shop). I use this for conventional broken stone ballast as well but it can be smoothed down with a wet finger after the glue has been added, producing a much flatter surface resembling ash and cinders. Ash and cinder ballast was (certainly in sidings remembered from my youth) almost black, presumably when freshly laid the ash would have added shades of lighter greys. When gluing the finer material down using the usual syringe of diluted PVA glue I have found it tends to contract and crack when drying so I add a thin coating of undiluted glue over the top and sprinkle on additional material in the affected areas. Regards always..... Bob 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted January 7, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2019 Chinchilla dust does make for good ash ballast Bob. I have a big bag of it the shed. You could just raise the ground level with card and cover it with a thick layer of paint and sprinkle it with chinchilla dust and then paint it again when its dry or just do the whole lot in artex and either colour the artex or paint it afterwards. Just use powder paint mixed in with the artex. Maybe black and burnt umber. Regards Lez. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) I think with the ballast left around the track work only that looks much better already. One thing I have found helpful is to plaint a grey/dark grey paint across everything then ballast. This if you use poster paints tends to create a fairly dull ash like look. It’s easier then to apply ash ballast into and marks any missed bits. It’s harder to paint afterwards as the brush sucks all the ballast up but not impossible using a smaller softer brush The other thing I did on minories was mix in black poster paint to the pva. That washed the ballast with grime Edited January 7, 2019 by danstercivicman 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BobM Posted January 7, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) Hi Guys..... Cheers for the advice and sorry for the muddle here....I've created....! There is no problem for me lifting and storing the grey ballast for later use...it is loose and can hoovered up and stored......? I have used dark loco ash for the coal yard as you can see, but I think this would be too dark to extend over the adjacent goods.......? I could remove ballast... Artex a layer across goods yard and take it from there...? What do you think.... 'a runner'......? Regards Always Bob Edited January 7, 2019 by BobM 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) I guess it depends on what look your going for. To me the darker and more grimy the better: Here’s a link to a picture I found as part of my research on Stranraer https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/42465312420 Looking at your pictures I’d be tempted to mix some fine sand with some dark grey paint and just paint the bits in between where you have ballasted the tracks. To me your track ballast looks great. Edited January 7, 2019 by danstercivicman 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BobM Posted January 7, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) Hello All....... I think what I going to attempt it is - to lay some fine sand (medium) between the ballast already down..... add some to the ballast as well to provide a 'finer appearance' fix in the normal pva/ water method.... lightly use DAS clay rubbed to infill to a suitable level then weather and paint to ash / grime colour If it goes 'pear-shaped then 'hey ho...! Regards always... Bob Edited January 7, 2019 by BobM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Good luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BobM Posted January 7, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) Evening Guys.... As anyone who does so will testify and surely agree....there are sadly many, many disadvantages to living alone......? One advantage though, (unless you have a very understanding t'othe half) is that you can 'bake' damp sand in your oven without that 'certain look'.......? I've acquired horticultural silver sand to uses as a base for the yard ash effect, by its very nature it being slightly damp... but this has been sieved into baking tins placed into the oven on a high heat to drive off the excess moisture (effectively turning it into kiln dried sand') and now cool is a very fine dry medium....as shown in the lower image....will let you know how I get on......with Chris Nevard suggested method I could have gone down the builders yard and acquired 'kiln dried' sand but this was far too expensive for the quantities required... After driving initial moisture off ...... Sieved through then 'rebaked'........ Final dry, sieved and fine 'baked sand'...... Regards always.... Bob Edited January 7, 2019 by BobM 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb67 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 That certainly looks fine sand Bob. I'd definitely do a small bit first and less is more, you do have to be paitient using that method, have you been looking at the pictures of how he does it on his website? Steve. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BobM Posted January 7, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) That certainly looks fine sand Bob. I'd definitely do a small bit first and less is more, you do have to be paitient using that method, have you been looking at the pictures of how he does it on his website? Steve. Hi Steve.....Thank you to you and all for the posting and continued encouragement.........(above all your patience with me)...! Yep, I've read and reread his blog on this method and will continue to read it at every step....... Just spreading the sand now...... ..... going down well bringing it up to even sleeper height...... ......some of the ballast is mixing in slightly...but this gives it a 'rougher' texture in parts which looks okay...... ......there's no point really in me taking images of it (although I may try) as the sand is the same hue as the baseboard and you can't differentiate between the hues at the moment..... This may take some time by the look of it......will update when I'm happy with the spreading of the sand....prior to fixing..... Regards always...... Bob Edited January 7, 2019 by BobM 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BobM Posted January 7, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) Hi ..... Working slowly and steadily to spread the ('baked') fine sand across the yard and track areas...... Next update and image may be when happy with this layer, when evenly spread and I've applied the pva/ water setting mix...... It'll be after that (as it says on Chris Nevard's site) the fun begins... Regards always..... Bob Edited January 7, 2019 by BobM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BobM Posted January 7, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) Hi..... There are some very useful images and tips from Chris N in reply to questions on this old thread..... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/25693-ner-ash-ballast/ Regards always..... Bob Edited January 7, 2019 by BobM 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) I’m going to try this on my Stranraer layout: https://www.howardscenicsupplies.co.uk/busch-7069-track-ballast-dark-grey-00-ho-230g/ I’m ordering some to try it looks quite a good colour and hopefully quite fine. Your new method looks good also and will be good to see it develop Edited January 8, 2019 by danstercivicman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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