RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted November 7, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 7, 2015 I think that I'm getting a bit of a reputation for kit-bashing and cut-&-shuts - so I thought that I'd go the whole hog and cover ALL of the ex-GWR and LMS sausage, milk and cream vans that were based on the six-wheeled PALETHORPES van, produced years ago by Tri-ang Hornby. I've had a few van bodies and a collection of 'bits' in bags for years, earmarked for some of these prototypes, but I set to researching the following vans to see what would be involved in modelling them. Ex-GWR Diagram O46 sausage van Ex-LMS Diagram 1936 6-wheeled milk van Ex-LMS Diagram 1955 6-wheeled sausage van Ex-LMS Diagram 1957 bogie sausage van Ex-LMS Diagram 1958 4-wheeled sausage van Ex-LMS Diagram 2001 bogie corridor sausage van Ex-LMS Diagram 2002 bogie corridor cream van Having produced a side elevation of the Tri-ang Hornby body moulding, and scanned and rescaled to 4mm. scale side elevations of all of the above vehicles, I was able to set to digitally cutting-&-shutting sections from the body moulding and fitting them together to produce the various vans. Each representation of the moulding was colour coded, so that I could keep track of which bit from which body went where in each model. It transpired that ten body mouldings would be required to produce the seven models, and that even the six-wheeled vans would have to be cut-&-shuts as the moulding is somewhat short in length. I also realised that I'd need chassis components, and that the collection of etchings and castings accumulated over the years would need substantially augmenting. 4-wheeled and 6-wheeled chassis were easily sourced - Roger Chivers 6-wheeled LMS fish van chassis being ideal; (shortened in the case of the 4-wheeled van). The bogie vans required LMS 50' chassis - sourced from Comet / Wizard and fitted with Dapol LMS bogies. The two bogie corridor vans would need standard LMS Stanier coach windows and double doors on one side - these would be sourced from Airfix / Dapol Stanier BSK and CK coaches; (the remainder of which would be fitted with Comet coach sides and end up as something completely different) ! I would only be able to use the upper coach sides as the corridor vans were flat-sided; the tumblehome would need to be cut off and replaced with scribed plastic card. So, a few sessions on Ebay and some on-line purchases resulted in delivery of the necessary donor bodies, etc., and I am at the point of taking razor saw to plastic. More in due course ......... Regards, John Isherwood. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted November 7, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 7, 2015 I am at the point of taking razor saw to plastic. More in due course ......... Regards, John Isherwood. Well - an hour or so's work and the principle is proved to be viable. The first body (colour code BLUE) has been carefully cut into four sections, and three of them have been reassembled into a body for the 4-wheeled ex-LMS Diagram 1958 sausage van. I used some slabs of 2mm. thick styrene sheet to overlap the joints and form a rebate into which the floor of the cut-down Chivers chassis kit will fit. Whilst the joints dry, the sides are braced apart at the correct overall width to ensure that there are no 'steps' between the components. Photos tomorrow, when the body has dried and been tidied up a little. I'm really enjoying this so far; whether I'll feel the same after all seven vans have been completed remains to be seen !! Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) Having read the topic title, I'm hungry now. Will there now be a shortage of Hornby sausage vans on eBay now? Edited November 7, 2015 by Horsetan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted November 8, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) Photos tomorrow, when the body has dried and been tidied up a little. Regards,John Isherwood. As promised, a couple of photos showing yesterday's progress. This is the basic shortened body for the ex-LMS Diagram 1958 4-wheeled sausage van. At a later stage the joints and gaps will be filled with Milliput; ice hatches, (which are cut from the body mouldings prior to the shortening / lengthening process), will be refitted in the correct locations; missing strapping and rainstrips will added using plastic strip; and then a coat of Halfords primer will be applied to reveal any blemishes. Today, I lengthened an ex-LMS Diagram 1955 6-wheeled sausage van, by combining components cut from two body mouldings; (colour codes green and turquoise). Whilst the lengthened body is straight and square, it's ended up just 1mm. too long ! Tomorrow, when the joints have hardened, I'll have to recut the centre splice and remove a little from both halves before rejoining - hopefully producing a body measuring 124mm. long ! That's it for today. Regards, John Isherwood. Edited November 9, 2015 by cctransuk 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted November 9, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2015 Tomorrow, when the joints have hardened, I'll have to recut the centre splice and remove a little from both halves before rejoining - hopefully producing a body measuring 124mm. long ! Regards, John Isherwood. The corrected 6-wheeled ex-LMS Dia.1955 sausage van, now exactly 124mm. long. Some dodgy joints - which will disappear after an application of Milliput; (the kit-basher's cure-all) !! Also, the centre sections are trying to bow inwards at their bottom edge - but the floor of the chassis kit will keep them at the correct distance apart. This afternoon I stretched another 6-wheeler; this time for the ex-GWR Dia.O46 sausage van. Tomorrow will be the last of the six-wheelers; the ex-LMS Dia.1936 milk van. Regards, John isherwood. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I never understood why when they made this model which had new running gear, a new floor and a new body, they manged to get the length wrong Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted November 11, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 11, 2015 Tomorrow will be the last of the six-wheelers; the ex-LMS Dia.1936 milk van. Regards, John Isherwood. It's been a couple of days since my last update, but there's been plenty of progress. This afternoon I finished the last of the seven basic body cut-&-shuts. In the photo, the sanding of the roof to remove the rainstrips makes it appear that some joints don't line up too well; in fact they do, and in each case the overall length is correct !! (Lesson learned). From the back; 4-wheeled ex-LMS Dia. 1958 sausage van; 6-wheeled ex-LMS Dia. 1955 sausage van; 6-wheeled ex-LMS Dia. 1936 milk van; 6-wheeled ex-GWR Dia. O46 sausage van; bogie corridor ex-LMS Dia. 2001 sausage van; bogie ex-LMS Dia. 1957 sausage van & bogie corridor ex-LMS Dia. 2002 cream van. The latter will have both sides filed smooth, and then it will swap a smooth side for a door side with the bogie corridor sausage van. The smooth sides will each have two pairs of guard's double doors and four standard sliding vent windows inserted; these components being donated by Airfix / Dapol RTR Stanier coaches. That should complete the body construction other than filling and sanding the joints, and fitting ice hatches, roof vents and corridor connections as appropriate. That will all have to wait until next week; we're taking a break from the Royal Duchy to visit family in the Principality ! Regards, John Isherwood. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted December 3, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 3, 2015 Some progress to report. The four and six-wheeled vans now have chassis and have been detailed. Ex-LMS Palethorpes van; cut-down Chivers six-wheeled fish van chassis with web milled into the solebars plus cast underframe fittings and etched ladders. Ex-LMS Palethorpes van; Chivers six-wheeled fish van chassis plus cast underframe fittings and etched ladder. Note the unusual reversed brake lever on this side. Ex-LMS milk van; Chivers six-wheeled fish van chassis. Again, a reversed brake lever on this side. Ex-GWR Palethorpes van; Chivers six-wheeled fish van chassis with web milled into the solebars plus cast underframe fittings and etched ladder. All still looking a bit rough, but we'll see what remains to be done after a waft of Halfords grey primer !! Regards, John Isherwood. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mick Bonwick Posted December 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2015 Just read this thread with interest, John. I'd clicked somewhere else in order to get here. Is that known as following the links? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium The White Rabbit Posted December 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 3, 2015 Some years ago, I operated a 'Breakfast Special' goods train using RTR stock - I'm lazier than Mr I ... Hornby produced a Weetabix box van, a Grimsby Fish long wheel base van and a Golden Shred box van which I'd run with a Palethorpes Sausages and a milk tanker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted December 9, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 9, 2015 At last - the four and six-wheeled vans are completed !! Ex-LMS four-wheeled Palethorpes van Ex-LMS six-wheeled Palethorpes van Ex-GWR six-wheeled Palethorpes van Ex-LMS six-wheeled milk van The six-wheeled chassis are equalised on the 'bogie-and-a-half principle; ie. one end axle runs in pin-point bearings - the other two axles comprise an equalised bogie which is free to swivel and take up track undulations in all planes; (see drawing below). It seems to be important that six-wheeled vehicles with chassis built on this 'three-legged stool' principle have a significant weight, so I glued a sizeable piece of roofing lead onto the floor. Even so, quite a bit of fiddling was involved before the bogie was sufficiently free to flex without being so loose that it slopped all over the place! The completed models were then sprayed with Halfords Satin Black and Ford Burgundy Red. When this was dry the roof and details were hand painted; a coat of Klear laquer was applied when the paint was fully dried. I was very pleased at how easily the transfers went on; the entire bodysides comprising one transfer each. Application of Microscale Microset and Microsol made the transfers snuggle down over the raised detail with no problem at all. (I had learned in the past not to panic when the Microsol turned the underlying Klear milky; it dries perfectly clear as you can see)! Anyway, the next part of the project will involve assembling three Comet LMS 50' underframes, so don't hold your breath waiting for the next episode! Regards, John Isherwood. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieS Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 At last - the four and six-wheeled vans are completed !! IMG_1473 small.JPG Ex-LMS four-wheeled Palethorpes van IMG_1481 small.JPG Ex-LMS six-wheeled Palethorpes van IMG_1478 small.JPG Ex-GWR six-wheeled Palethorpes van IMG_1483 small.JPG Ex-LMS six-wheeled milk van The six-wheeled chassis are equalised on the 'bogie-and-a-half principle; ie. one end axle runs in pin-point bearings - the other two axles comprise an equalised bogie which is free to swivel and take up track undulations in all planes; (see drawing below). EQUALISED BOGIE FOR 6-WHEELERS.JPG It seems to be important that six-wheeled vehicles with chassis built on this 'three-legged stool' principle have a significant weight, so I glued a sizeable piece of roofing lead onto the floor. Even so, quite a bit of fiddling was involved before the bogie was sufficiently free to flex without being so loose that it slopped all over the place! The completed models were then sprayed with Halfords Satin Black and Ford Burgundy Red. When this was dry the roof and details were hand painted; a coat of Klear laquer was applied when the paint was fully dried. I was very pleased at how easily the transfers went on; the entire bodysides comprising one transfer each. Application of Microscale Microset and Microsol made the transfers snuggle down over the raised detail with no problem at all. (I had learned in the past not to panic when the Microsol turned the underlying Klear milky; it dries perfectly clear as you can see)! Anyway, the next part of the project will involve assembling three Comet LMS 50' underframes, so don't hold your breath waiting for the next episode! Regards, John Isherwood. Nice. I always wondered if the MILK VANS were white or maroon! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted January 14, 2016 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 14, 2016 At last - the four and six-wheeled vans are completed !! Regards, John Isherwood. ....... and the bogie vans !! The non-corridor bogie Palethorpes van. Cut & shut sides, ends and roof from Tri-ang Hornby Palethorpes vans; Comet 50 ft. LMS chassis; Dapol bogies; Hornby wheels; my transfers. The corridor bogie Palethorpes van. This side, plastic card plus sections of Airfix corridor Stanier coaches; ends and roof from Tri-ang Hornby Palethorpes vans; Comet 50 ft. LMS chassis; Dapol bogies; Hornby wheels; my transfers. The other side is identical to the non-corridor van and comprises cut & shut sides from Tri-ang Hornby Palethorpes vans The corridor bogie cream van. Plastic card plus sections of Airfix corridor Stanier coaches, with ends and roof from Tri-ang Hornby Palethorpes vans; Comet 50 ft. LMS chassis; Dapol bogies; Hornby wheels; my transfers. The other side of the bogie cream van. All in all, a very interesting project !! Regards, John Isherwood. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 (edited) Presumably for those of us not so good at constructing comet chassis we could get away with the chassis from a Hornby or Bachman 50ft parcels van. Are the units on the rooves the ones from the original models or castings? great models by the way Dean Edited April 6, 2016 by rovex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted April 6, 2016 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 6, 2016 Very nice model! Can I ask, where did you get the drawings for the bogie vehicle? John I'm pretty sure that it was from the LMS Coaches books - the one with NPCCS in it. Regards, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted April 6, 2016 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 6, 2016 Presumably for those of us not so good at constructing comet chassis we could get away with the chassis from a Hornby or Bachman 50ft parcels van. Are the units on the rooves the ones from the original models or castings? great models by the way Dean I don't see why not. The roof hatches are from the original models, cut off with a razor saw. Regards, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 I've just realised that this thread is what has made me go and buy a sausage buttie... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 16, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2016 A very useful thread, I have a feeling that the old Hornby LMS milk van I had on my childhood train set will now need to be dug out and converted into something more useful! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 11, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 11, 2018 Presumably for those of us not so good at constructing comet chassis we could get away with the chassis from a Hornby or Bachman 50ft parcels van. Are the units on the rooves the ones from the original models or castings? great models by the way Dean Reviving this topic rather than start a new one I am looking at doing the bogie versions for my South Staffs based layout. I have some bodies and a couple of Mainline 50' vans but the chassis on those models seem to be a bit wide. Can anyone please confirm the width of the bodies of the prototype Palethorpes bogie vans or what the prototype width across the solebars should be? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted March 11, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 11, 2018 Reviving this topic rather than start a new one I am looking at doing the bogie versions for my South Staffs based layout. I have some bodies and a couple of Mainline 50' vans but the chassis on those models seem to be a bit wide. Can anyone please confirm the width of the bodies of the prototype Palethorpes bogie vans or what the prototype width across the solebars should be? I'm afraid that I don't have that information to hand, but I can see no reason why the solebars could not be sawn off, the inner chassis narrowed, and then the solebars refixed in place. The sausage / milk van bodies are pretty accurate for width; I suspect that the Mainline chassis were made over-width in order to allow the bogies to turn on tight radii. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 11, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 11, 2018 I'm afraid that I don't have that information to hand, but I can see no reason why the solebars could not be sawn off, the inner chassis narrowed, and then the solebars refixed in place. The sausage / milk van bodies are pretty accurate for width; I suspect that the Mainline chassis were made over-width in order to allow the bogies to turn on tight radii. Regards, John Isherwood. Thanks John. I was thinking that two cuts along the chassis and sticking back together would be the best solution. I've measured several LMS coach models and all seem to be 1-2mm over wide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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