Triang TT Technical advice

[sagaguy]

It`s the Phosphoric acid in regular Coke that does the deed.When i worked in the offset litho industry,we used to use bottles of dilute phosphoric acid as aluminium printing plate cleaner & i used it for derusting Meccano.Funnily enough,it never affected my fingers but after i retired,i had some at home ,it really did sting my fingers so whilst working,my fingers must have got desensitised to it.

 

 

                          Ray.

[NCB]

What's the track? Think I can see some Peco points there.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Is that an etched brass 4F or something different? It has a different look to it than the whitemetal Bec one I am waiting to finish.

 

Garry

[TT3]

The 4F is an unknown scratchbuild in brass, bought it off ebay and was most impressed as looks right.

 

Track is peco pointwork with 3mm society track bases for the flexible, all code 75 and surprisingly the triang runs on it very well. Just had to widen the checkrails as some were a little tight and set all the back to backs.

 

Comparison with BEC 4F, proper handrails and good detail, fits the standard chassis well enough

 

 

Different tender, unknown model but very nicely made

 

 

Most obvious from the front, has a great NER look to the boiler, but given the difference between this model and the standard 4F I have decided that the BEC kits can be 3Fs with the narrow boiler.

 

 

Next project, convert a BEC 4F into a SR Q class, just need a different cab, same trick as done with vintage Lima 0 gauge models and should look passable enough.

 

Edited March 30, 2017 by TT3

[Golden Fleece 30]

I can see what you mean about the Bec kit looking like a 3F size wise and it seems a good idea to use it that way.  My first thought on seeing yours was your boiler/firebox has a better straight handrail as opposed to the Bec kits cast one that follows the body contours.  We cannot complain though as these kits were made from the 60's and an easy option in those days to give something different when very few people were scratchbuilding.  I like the scenery and ballasted track.

 

Garry

[TT3]

It just shows what you can do to increase the range of locos for a pretty low cost. Those GEM/Wills Nu Cast Langley and other manufacturers made some great kits for RTR chassis when we were perfectly happy to have a J39 with a jinty chassis. Often thought about collecting sone of the 00 versions on triang chassis.

 

The layout is my current project Pylle, just trying to find some good pictures of buildings to replace the card kits. 

[TT3]

SR Q from BEC 4F and other bits on trusty Triang chassis of course

 

[Golden Fleece 30]

Looking at it there is not much difference between the Q and 4F classes.  I guess one may have been a development of the other.  Looking at a real one if it was not for the raised centre on the front buffer beam I would initially have said the loco was a 4F.

 

Garry

Edited March 31, 2017 by Golden Fleece 30

[Golden Fleece 30]

I have bought some Romford gears and would like to know what the distance should be between the axle and motor shaft should be for smooth running.  The gear wheel is 13.3mm dia and the worm 7.1 (30:1 and 60:1 sets) which tally's with an internet sites dimensions.  They then say the centres should be 9.53mm which is a calculation I cannot work out due to the worm sitting in the gear obviously but I know there needs to be a very small clearance.  Does any one know if this is correct or not before I do my drawings for the parts to be etched?  This is also posted in the Tri-ang Railway thread.

 

Garry

[NCB]

The late Jim Russell did a load of tests and came to the conclusion that these worked best when there was decent clearance between worm and gear, i.e. they only just meshed. This contrary to the habit of the time of bottoming out the worm in the gear and relying on running in to get the thing to loosen up. I'd suggest if the edge of the worm reaches about half-way down the depth of a gear tooth you can't go far wrong. So, for the gear and worm to just touch they would be 10.2mm apart. Subtract from that half the depth of a tooth. 9.53mm could be a little tight, at a guess. Think the 60:1 gear teeth are probably shallower so I'd work on that.

 

Nigel

[Golden Fleece 30]

My first Kitmaster coach body shell completed. It is Precision BR maroon with HMRS lining and Fox numbers/letters finished with gloss varnish, the upper lining had to be in two pieces and on one side you can see the join. The window bars were a nightmare but only 7 more sets to go. I have not decided how to fix the roof yet (which is not painted yet), my initial thoughts were small neo's and tinplate but I may look at glueing a nut in the centre to use a screw as per late Tri-ang ones. At the moment it is on Kitmaster bogies with Jackson wheels but they may get changed for Tri-ang ones as the running is not as I hoped for. I am reasonably pleased though especially as each kit worked out at £1.85 and at the moment I am looking at 6 in maroon and a couple in Blood and Custard. One window does have a mark "etched" into it so I cannot do much about it and one side has a "grey" spot that the paint would not cover but at 100 mph it will not be seen.

 

Garry

ps I do know the lettering on one side slopes a little.

[Golden Fleece 30]

My second Kitmaster coach with its bodyshell completed. Still on temporary bogies and roof fixing yet to be decided.  For some reason the end door window on one side seems to be frosted but too late to alter.

 

Garry

[NCB]

Nice. I managed to pick up a couple of unmade Kitmasters a few months ago, but haven't had time to do anything with them yet.

 

Did you remove the raised "lining bar" on the sides or use it to add the lining?

[Golden Fleece 30]

Thanks. I wanted to remove the raised bar but it would have been a nightmare to do keeping the sides smooth but leaving the door handles etc.  The lining used fits reasonably well on the ridge although it was a gamble trying to keep it straight and on it.  The gloss varnish shows the edges so the next one might be done with Satin to see how it looks.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here is the "third" Kitmaster coach. This is unassembled as at the moment I am in two minds whether to varnish as the others or not. I think the paint finish itself is the best you can get and varnishing spoils the appearance, gloss or satin makes no difference, varnish does not give the same finish as the paint. The only advantage of varnishing is the help in securing the transfers. Looks like it will be a day or so before I decide on this one, obviously if I leave it as is then it cannot be done after the windows are fitted.

 

Garry

[NCB]

Up until now I've never used varnish, partly because the transfers I use are pressfix type which require a matt finish anyway. I use Railmatch paint sprays, which are maybe dull rather than matt, but OK. There will come a time when I want to use waterslide transfers though, and I'm not sure what I'd do.

 

One possibility is to use Halfords gloss car sprays of around the right colour, if I can find one.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Nigel, are you saying that Pressfix transfers do not need a protective coat? Also are you saying that they are used on a matt finish or require a matt finish applying?

 

I can live with the coach numbers not being varnished over as unlikely to get handled much. I personally do not handle the sides anyway usually, it is mainly other operators at shows.

 

The paint I prefer for these is Precision gloss maroon but do use Railmatch for other items at times, plus some car sprays. The Precision gloss is between a high gloss and a satin finish which is an ideal finish and look to me. I know gloss varnish keeps the richness whereas satin and matt progressively lighten the colours.

 

Garry

Edited May 4, 2017 by Golden Fleece 30

[Robert Shrives]

Crikey, that takes me back - I have a model railway constructor article tucked away about cut and shunting Kitmaster kits and did two or three - a scale length Brake gangway and a buffet or two in maroon. Still have loads of parts tucked away and an ebay bargain of the year recently - 8 coaches and some Triang wagons for a tenner - only bidder... One chassis has triang bogies fitted with metal scale wheels and runs a dream so certainly worth looking at if the kitmaster bogies disappoint but these fitted with brass bearings and metal wheel sets do quite a few of mine and seem ok.

 

Robert   

[sagaguy]

I always give transfers(Decals!,where did we get that name from)a coat of Railmatch satin varnish to protect them.Halfords Acrylic satin varnish causes them to wrinkle.Enamel satin varnish is a safer bet.

 

                                       Ray.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Until now I have always varnished over transfers Ray. Locos nearly always Satin with the odd gloss one but my TT coaches are gloss. I am not keen on the lighter shade produced by Satin, and, Matt is always a definate no-no. I am interested to see what Nigel says about the accidental handling on unvarnished pressfix transfers.

 

Unless I use a car spray for a colour I never use acrylic, I have never been a fan of it preferring enamel, plus enamel does not give the peeling as acrylic can when used over enamel. What I have also discovered is some paint strippers do not work on acrylic as they do on enamels.

 

Garry

Edited May 4, 2017 by Golden Fleece 30

[NCB]

Garry, I never varnish my coaches or locomotives. This is using transfers from the range PC Models produced for the 3mm Society back in the mists of time. However, apologies, I made a mistake. These are Methfix, not Pressfix. But they still require a dull or matt finish (I think, never tried them on gloss).

 

So, for coaches I use Railmatch sprays which I think produce a dull finish. Then just apply the Methfix transfers. No varnish before or after. I have used pressfix-type transfers, from a different range, on wagons; I probably matt varnish afterwards, some time since I used them. I also use Modelmaster waterslide transfers on wagons; gloss varnish before applying them then matt afterwards.

 

Having said that just looked at Howes' Railmatch pages, and it appears that GWR coach brown has just been continued, so I'd better stock up if I can find some. If not, I'd use Precision sprays, but find these seem to clog more easily.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Nigel, Now you have mentioned Methsfix transfers I can understand.  I really like and prefer those to any others and used them on most of my Dublo locos.  I would certainly have liked them in 3mm scale and agree they are a lot stronger on a model wear wise and look better being thinner.  I will say I have only ever used them on gloss green locos without any problems or satin black.  I do have a YouTube video showing these being  put on an A4.

 

Railmatch are dull finishes which I don't mind on roofs or wagons but not on locos (or coaches if I can help it).  I do like the Precision gloss finishes though.

 

Regarding your GWR brown I have noticed the lighter/early EMU shade has also been discontinued although both are still available in the small brush on jars.

 

Garry

[NCB]

Garry

 

Here's a pic of a couple of GWR coaches (part of a Dean clerestory, plus Churchward toplight) done out in Railmatch:

 

 

I find I don't mind the dull finish. For one thing, it hides minor imperfections better (than gloss)!

 

The Dean is a Mallard kit reduced to 3mm, the toplight is Worsley Works sides stuck onto a body shell formed from a plastic B-set coach which the Society used to offer, but with the B coach sides replaced by Parkside clear coach sides.

 

The main problem I find with Methfix is that the finer detail can break up; I've lost quite a few GWR shirt-button totems that way. On the other hand, lettering is usually OK.

 

The brown is a bit darker than Precision brown.

Edited May 5, 2017 by NCB

[Golden Fleece 30]

Very nice Nigel.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

Kitmaster number 3. This one has been sprayed with a satin varnish finish. Looks like the roof needs something to help it stay down. The second side is not shown as on one end some of the glue somehow managed to get onto the outside and had a set to with the paint. Needless to say the paint lost, hopefully I will be able to do a touch up on it.

 

Garry