Karhedron Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 The 322s and 321/3s need, I think, another bodyshell. When we looked at the possibility of modular tooling to allow 319s too it got very messy very quickly as there are surprising numbers of annoyingly disparate detail variations, as bigP has mentioned. Just a thought, rather than trying to tool everything in one go, would it be possible to incorporate slides for the window patterns into the tooling. This means that if you want to go back in the future and do a 319, you will be able to reuse most of the tooling and would only need to tool up new slides for the windows. This might cost a bit more but it would future proof the tooling and open up lots of possibilities. I don't know if you or Rapido will own the eventual tooling but if it is Rapido, they might even be willing to absorb the cost of incorporating slides so as to have a more useful tooling for future products. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I think the biggest problem with the 320, 321 and 322 units is due to the difference in the windows behind the cab. You have the large window/small window, small window/small window. These would cover the 320, 321/4 and the WYPTE 321/9. If you can change the windows behind the cab for the medium window/small window or the small window/medium window you would also have the 321/3 and the 322 (ps the 322 also work Doncaster/leeds runs). If you can change the cabs, using the large window/small window you can also do the 319. How many liveries would this allow if you could do all these cab/window versions? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigP Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) -- Edited January 30, 2021 by bigP Deleted 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted September 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 10, 2015 In my usual mouth-frothing excitement I've not seen where I can express my interest. But I'd absolutely have a London Midland 321! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stuart A Posted September 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2015 I would put my name down for a NSE 321. It could re-invigorate the AC electric market.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkie Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Wow, this is great news. I for one would love a NSE 321. Nice to see some emu's from the 90's Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted September 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2015 I can't make Leamngton this weekend but all the best for getting plenty of interest. I don't have a use for one of these but I can see me getting one but which livery!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted September 10, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2015 Just a thought, rather than trying to tool everything in one go, would it be possible to incorporate slides for the window patterns into the tooling. This means that if you want to go back in the future and do a 319, you will be able to reuse most of the tooling and would only need to tool up new slides for the windows. This might cost a bit more but it would future proof the tooling and open up lots of possibilities. I don't know if you or Rapido will own the eventual tooling but if it is Rapido, they might even be willing to absorb the cost of incorporating slides so as to have a more useful tooling for future products. Hi Matthew, Incorporating slides for the different windows was something we thought about, but can be tricky with plain liveries (eg Abellio) because no matter how good the tooling is, there can be very fine witness marks at the join which will spoil the model. It may be those lines can be removed at the factory, but introducing such a process inevitably increases the cost. We decided it was better to just bite the bullet and focus on doing the best model we can of a particular type; and if this model flies then maybe one of the other manufacturers will take up the lead and produce the 319 et al. cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Just on the subject of Windows the class 320s in the latest scotrail livery have a different window arrangement at the non driving end of the DTS at A end (furthest from the pantograph) This is due to them being fitted with toilets during refurbishment. A toilet retention tank was also fitted underneath the coach at the same time. They were painted in the latest scotrail livery at the same time. Until refurbishment the 320s didn't have toilets. So you will be looking at the original window layout for the other two liverys Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Country Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Fantastic news, count me in for at least one orange/black 320. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted September 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2015 We've spent a lot of time looking at the different variants of Mk3 units and how much is common (and how much is annoyingly subtly different), so we are reasonably confident we can do at least the 320 (pre-refurb?), 321/4 and 321/9. Come and talk to us about a 456 (either at TINGS or Warley) - we have a few ideas (though of course they were refurbed and lost their toilets). As Ben said we'd rather get one lot right than compromise or try to offer too many variations making tooling either difficult or (more) expensive. Cheers, Mike 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted September 10, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2015 I can't make Leamngton this weekend but all the best for getting plenty of interest. I don't have a use for one of these but I can see me getting one but which livery!! Hi Ian, There's always a works train: http://bit.ly/1KdniKEthough I accept that isn't Banbury! cheers Ben A. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted September 10, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) Hi Ian, There's always a works train: http://bit.ly/1KdniKEthough I accept that isn't Banbury! cheers Ben A. You can run most things through Banbury with a diesel on the end or both ends but have you seen the size of my stock boxes these days Some how I need to find room for the Pendolino and the tanks! Ian PS Its good to know that you had already considered various options for similar types but yes get at least the ones you are doing right and that may well lead to further variants in future either by yourselves or others. Edited September 10, 2015 by roundhouse 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash39 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Excellent choice of model which compliments many existing releases! I'd be in for an original WYPTE 321/9, though I can see this maybe getting dropped as it's not a widely modelled area. Is there going to be an official way to express your interest Ben? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted September 10, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2015 Hi Ash, Yes, MIke is busy sorting the website with new buttons to allow anyone interested in this model to delclare it. In the first instance we'll just list all the liveries we can (there are some I haven't listed in this thread - such as the dark grey demonstrator unit; which in some ways might be useful because I think it has run more widely to fulfil its function - but as time goes by I suspect it will become fairly obvious fairly quickly which are the most popular. Then, if we reach the minimum order threshold, we willl start to do more serious development work. At this time we will ascertain the minimum order number for any given livery and then by the time we put in an order for the production models any that reach that number will get proiduced, and anyone backing others will be asked if they wish to reselect. I think that, given the sheer number of liveries, it's the only sensible way. One caveat to that is that we'll only anticipate producing "main" liveries as variations eg First Capital Connect. If anyone wants interim rebranded versions that's something they can do wiith decals or vinyls - much like the real thing. cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted September 10, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2015 Just on the subject of Windows the class 320s in the latest scotrail livery have a different window arrangement at the non driving end of the DTS at A end (furthest from the pantograph) This is due to them being fitted with toilets during refurbishment. A toilet retention tank was also fitted underneath the coach at the same time. They were painted in the latest scotrail livery at the same time. Until refurbishment the 320s didn't have toilets. So you will be looking at the original window layout for the other two liverys Hi Darrel, Yes, that's right. I did wonder whether any had received the Saltire colours before refurbishment, but if not it depends on demand as to whether it makes sense to tool this variation. I think it's unlikely we will TBH, more likely is that we will offer the standard 320 in Saltire with an acknowledgement of the compromise. After all, that would be correct when viewed from one side. Then, IF people decide they can live with it and order enough we will produce them, and if they don't we won't.. On another note, it occurs to me that the very plain white Abellio livery may be a good basis for decals/vinyls/repaints. cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha230 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I think if these were done in oo scale, they would be a very good seller considering all the liveries they have carried The Bratchell class 321 is £239.00, that's for the pre-printed sides version plus its £64.00 for wheels , couplings and bearings, another £64.00 if you buy the ready to motorize version, that built up by them, then you need to buy a motor also and pantograph plus seating from other suppliers plus lighting. So if it was done in oo scale , I don't think Bratchell Models would be selling many class 320, or class 321 kits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Ben if you need any photos of 320s there are some here https://darrels.smugmug.com/Trains/Class-320 I have others if you need them or if you need anything in particular let me know, I drive them so it's easy enough for me to get photos for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I know you already have enough liveries to be looking at, but some Anglia ones also carried versions of National Express. 321429 at least had the full version...Towards the end of the franchise they were getting a plain white with black doors version... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted September 11, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 11, 2015 Intriguing news: good luck with it. And nice to see Rapido steadily building a good business here. I have never seen these units on the Ely-King's Lynn section (which doesn't mean they have never served it); I'm curious, in case it is ever released in 00, when they might have been used there? Paul Hi Paul, When trawling through photos online I did see one referencing Kings Lynn; having gone back and double checked this was a driver training run. I can't say for sure that the 321s have ever operated service trains to Kings Lynn, though. It occurs to me that the map does not include the works runs to and from Doncaster for refurbishment etc, of the Scotrail units either. cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arran Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 HI All Looks good to me I will have 2 strathclyde ones for Law. Regards Arran Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eddie reffin Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Hi Darrel, Yes, that's right. I did wonder whether any had received the Saltire colours before refurbishment, but if not it depends on demand as to whether it makes sense to tool this variation. I think it's unlikely we will TBH, more likely is that we will offer the standard 320 in Saltire with an acknowledgement of the compromise. After all, that would be correct when viewed from one side. Then, IF people decide they can live with it and order enough we will produce them, and if they don't we won't.. On another note, it occurs to me that the very plain white Abellio livery may be a good basis for decals/vinyls/repaints. cheers Ben A. Hi Ben, With regards to the modified windows on the Saltire Livery, I for one would be more than happy to accept that small compromise if it meant getting a choice of Scottish liveries. The more I think about these units, the more I am hoping it goes ahead. Ultimately I would have need for 4 320s and perhaps the same in 318 if demand allows. Best wishes Eddie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted September 11, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 11, 2015 PS here is the link to the expressions of interest form: http://www.revolutiontrains.com/class-320-and-class-321/class-320321-expressions-of-interest/ Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomag Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) I would update the page to make it clear you are not doing a 321/3 - I may be interested in 321/9 and 322 but definitely would buy several (4+) NSE 321/3. As for the point about Kings Lynn and 321s an additional six units were ordered for KL services but these ended up as 443 to 448 (which is why the vehicle numbers are lower than sets 431 to 442). Some 321s were used during the testing of the wires but I am not aware of any being used on services once the through trains switched to KX. Edited September 11, 2015 by Bomag Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigP Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) -- Edited January 30, 2021 by bigP Deleted Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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