Driving standards

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, 97406 said:

The thing about speed cameras is that they don’t rigidly enforce the limit, they are set to enforce from 10% +2mph over the limit (or 10% plus 4 in the Welsh 20mph zones). The whole enforcement thing is quite lenient over here. Speedometers generally overread too so it is worth checking your own speedo against GPS at different speeds throughout the range.

 

The main issues I see on smart motorways and dual carriageways are due to poor lane discipline with drivers not keeping left when not overtaking, or rolling roadblocks at speeds under the limit caused by one car driver deciding to overtake another vehicle at 0.05mph through a perceived fear of being prosecuted for straying 1mph over the limit.

 

People don’t always check blind spots properly before changing lanes and a being boxed in when another driver performs such an ill-judged manoevre is not a nice place to be. I do try and avoid sitting alongside other vehicles in traffic for this reason.

AIUI, it s a legal requirement that speedometers fitted to new vehicles read fast by a minimum of 5%, even though GPS technology would allow them to be dead accurate.

 

Your "slow overtake" comment is apposite, but I've noticed a large number of drivers who just won't overtake anything that's actually moving, even if there's a quarter of a mile of clear road ahead of a tractor and trailer doing 25. It's not just drivers of slow cars either. Last week, I passed two cars of equal or higher power to my own, plus the tractor etc. in one go without exceeding the 60 limit.    

[Deeps]

2 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

one if my pet hates is motorway drivers who slow to 65mph to pass a “Highway Officer” in a marked National Highways 4*4

 

these are civilians (road workers essentially) patrolling to help clear up incidents. They have no traffic enforcement ability / powers. The clue is the word POLICE is missing from their vehicle. 

This reminds me of an occasion where one of these vehicles passed me on the M5 then pulled in front, switched on his hazards and moved onto the hard shoulder. Although it wasn’t a police car I felt obliged to follow him, thinking perhaps he had spotted a problem with my car, and stopped behind his vehicle. After a few minutes he came back to ask why I had stopped. Apparently he had been tasked with picking up some rubbish on the hard shoulder!

[Reorte]

4 hours ago, SM42 said:

 

I'm not saying they are useless, just not very good at detecting any other risk factor.

They're not intended to detect any other risk factor.

[Reorte]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

AIUI, it s a legal requirement that speedometers fitted to new vehicles read fast by a minimum of 5%, even though GPS technology would allow them to be dead accurate.

From a quick search (so I may have missed something) nothing has changed since 1986. The regulations appear to be that they can't udner-read at all but can over-read up to 110% + 6.25 mph.

[MrWolf]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

AIUI, it s a legal requirement that speedometers fitted to new vehicles read fast by a minimum of 5%, even though GPS technology would allow them to be dead accurate.

 

Correct, speedometers in production cars have always read slightly fast to make drivers wary of their actual speed.

 

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

Your "slow overtake" comment is apposite, but I've noticed a large number of drivers who just won't overtake anything that's actually moving, even if there's a quarter of a mile of clear road ahead of a tractor and trailer doing 25. It's not just drivers of slow cars either. Last week, I passed two cars of equal or higher power to my own, plus the tractor etc. in one go without exceeding the 60 limit.    

 

I see a lot of this kind of thing, along with drivers struggling to park and giving up.

Many drivers of modern cars appear to have zero spatial awareness and no clue as to the dimensions of their car or its turning abilities.

That's despite having reversing cameras, power mirrors and power steering.

They also drive right up to a situation before thinking what do, (in the case of large slow vehicles, so close they can't see around it.) instead of hanging back and assessing that situation, observing and acting.

 

These are the same people who have a fit about dangerous driving when a motorcycle roars past seemingly out of nowhere.

 

He didn't come out of nowhere, you didn't check your mirror in the last half hour.

 

He's been watching the road a quarter mile ahead, hung back, checked everything is clear, dropped a gear and blown past safely, still within the limit.

 

Waking you up in the process. 😆

[Nick C]

4 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

post covid and perhaps with more WFH, I do find that the general population drives a lot slower and more hesitant than precovid

Not round here - during/post Covid there seems to have been a marked increase in the amount of people driving aggressively.

 

I almost got run off the road yesterday by a BMW SUV which seemed to take offence to my passing a group of cyclists safely and legally - unfortunately I don't currently have a rear dashcam and so don't have any evidence to report him to the authorities - I've now ordered one!

[PhilJ W]

4 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

one if my pet hates is motorway drivers who slow to 65mph to pass a “Highway Officer” in a marked National Highways 4*4

And those who when approaching a speed camera despite being within the limit slow down or even brake. What's wrong with glancing at your speedometer?

[Nick Holliday]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

And those who when approaching a speed camera despite being within the limit slow down or even brake. What's wrong with glancing at your speedometer?

Why bother when they probably have no idea what the speed limit is?
 

A recent phenomenon, at least locally, is many drivers cruising at 20 or slower in built up areas, even though the limit is actually 30. I think this is because of the inept, and probably illegal, installation of the 20 mph signage. Because of general incompetence the signs are often so poorly located that they are invisible or difficult to interpret, so I suppose it makes sense to assume the worst, but it is very frustrating for those who are aware of the correct limits.
 

Many years ago, whilst heading west on an almost empty M4 at slightly above the national limit, not that my car would do much more, I spotted in my mirror a blue Hillman Hunter in the outside lane, with a blue light, not flashing, on its roof. Discretion being the better part of valour, I dutifully reduced my speed whilst the Hillman very slowly overhauled me. Imagine my chagrin when I read the markings on its side “RAF Police”!

[Nick C]

9 minutes ago, Nick Holliday said:

A recent phenomenon, at least locally, is many drivers cruising at 20 or slower in built up areas, even though the limit is actually 30. I think this is because of the inept, and probably illegal, installation of the 20 mph signage. Because of general incompetence the signs are often so poorly located that they are invisible or difficult to interpret, so I suppose it makes sense to assume the worst, but it is very frustrating for those who are aware of the correct limits.

There are plenty of roads in built up areas where it's not safe to do 30, even though that's the limit - especially where there's lots of parked cars. One just round the corner from us with parked cars all along one side, and a park on the other - the likelihood of a small child unexpectedly running across chasing a football is pretty high there...

[bimble]

7 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

one if my pet hates is motorway drivers who slow to 65mph to pass a “Highway Officer” in a marked National Highways 4*4

 

these are civilians (road workers essentially) patrolling to help clear up incidents. They have no traffic enforcement ability / powers. The clue is the word POLICE is missing from their vehicle. 

 

Saw a good one last week on the M40, an actual police car doing 70mph and a collection of German salon cars who'd caught it up but didn't want to overtake because to do so would have meant doing +70mph 🤣

[jbqfc]

got stuck in traffic come home from the supermarket to find an ASDA home delivery van on the roundabout with most of its contents on the road 

must have forgotten to close the shutter after his last drop off 

 

John 

 

[PhilJ W]

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Presumably you only realised your error when the one on the rights garage door closed behind you?

 

Mike.

I really couldn't say.

[kevinlms]

19 hours ago, SM42 said:

 

 

Drink 1 litre of vodka, take some hallucinatory drugs, leave your glasses at home and forget to get a driving licence, as long as you go past the camera under the speed limit you'll be considered safe by the camera.

 

Andy

If the police aren't there in person, then they get away with it anyway.

 

Even if you had police stationed on every junction, the maniacs would still be able to do as they wished along the roads inbetween!

[PhilJ W]

4 hours ago, Nick Holliday said:

Many years ago, whilst heading west on an almost empty M4 at slightly above the national limit, not that my car would do much more, I spotted in my mirror a blue Hillman Hunter in the outside lane, with a blue light, not flashing, on its roof. Discretion being the better part of valour, I dutifully reduced my speed whilst the Hillman very slowly overhauled me. Imagine my chagrin when I read the markings on its side “RAF Police”!

I was doing 70 on a Motorway when a car came up behind me with a steady blue light or lights in the grill. I pulled over to let him pass and as he did so I realised that it was not a police car. Showing any other light than a white one forward is illegal in the UK (direction indicators excepted), thats why our numberplates are white at the front and yellow at the rear. 

Edited September 16 by PhilJ W

[GrumpyPenguin]

12 hours ago, SM42 said:

I would suggest that the time saving on blues and twos is not getting held up in traffic most of the time as they rarely travel hundreds of miles above the limit.

"Rare exception time! !

 

Some years ago (during some sort of "high level/important" conference in Scotland)Police Scotland asked for volunteer Dog Handlers from other forces to up the numbers. My neighbour (from a Garden of England Force) applied for a, laugh, was accepted & blue lighted it all the way.

[kevinlms]

7 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

 our numberplates are whit at the front and yellow at the rear. 

Does any other country have different colour plates front and rear? They can be different colours for different states in Oz, but they are matching.

In many US states, they only have one - archaic, but what can one say?

[Welchester]

5 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Does any other country have different colour plates front and rear?

 

France used to have white front and yellow rear plates, but now both are white. You very occasionally see a car with the old plates.

[GrumpyPenguin]

10 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

 

these are civilians (road workers essentially) patrolling to help clear up incidents. They have no traffic enforcement ability / powers. The clue is the word POLICE is missing from their vehicle. 

They are civilians, but I think you will find that they do now have the power to stop & issue PCN, NIP's & prohibitation notices.

They are allowed to display rear facing flashing red warning lights/beacons (currently, the Police are the only emergency service allowed to do so but I understand that it's due to change). Some of them even have electronic bullhorn/sirens for when they need to use the hard shoulder when the traffic is stationary.

Only a matter of time before they have blues.

[Dunsignalling]

Just followed some very old bloke in a white BMW (X1 or X3) for several miles down the A35, fortunately with a "barrier vehicle" between us. LOL.

 

He was doing a fairly unsteady 35mph in both the 60mph and 30mph sections, having a variable relationship to the centre line, and with much random braking.

 

He eventually pulled over to let his acquired retinue pass.

 

My judgement was he was either drunk or treating the cats-eyes as braille.

 

If I'd been a copper, I'd have breathalyzed him and referred him for a medical if he passed!

Edited Monday at 20:19 by Dunsignalling

[97406]

10 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

AIUI, it s a legal requirement that speedometers fitted to new vehicles read fast by a minimum of 5%, even though GPS technology would allow them to be dead accurate.

 

Your "slow overtake" comment is apposite, but I've noticed a large number of drivers who just won't overtake anything that's actually moving, even if there's a quarter of a mile of clear road ahead of a tractor and trailer doing 25. It's not just drivers of slow cars either. Last week, I passed two cars of equal or higher power to my own, plus the tractor etc. in one go without exceeding the 60 limit.    

 

I don’t mind drivers who don’t wish to overtake the vehicle in front so long as they stay behind said vehicle far enough to allow you to overtake them and nip back in. It’s those who follow too close and get irate if you have the cheek to try the above maneuver and I blame it a lot on the British queueing mentality! However, I’ve encountered a couple of slower drivers who have left the gap to facilitate an overtake in the Peak District this last week, so there is hope!

[SM42]

9 hours ago, Reorte said:

They're not intended to detect any other risk factor.

 

That's the problem. Bigger risk factors go undetected cos they are cheaper than a traffic officer.

 

In a local village the cameras, or rather the talivan, plug and pay, is set up after you've passed the two pubs  the village shop and it's car park, the pelican crossing, church, nursey and school and importantly out of sight due to the slight bend in the road.

 

It performs no safety purpose.

 

Blow through at 50  slow down just in case till you get to where you can see if its there, accelerate if it's not.

 

In fact many cameras round here and positioned on downhill stretches  where speed may creep up a little. 

Very few are at known accident sites.

 

I have seen the police out with the handheld before 6am to catch the early morning  wacky racers and on one occasion  at 2230ish, hiding in the dark just before a roundabout, but with a good view up the 40mph dual carriageway 

 

I did accuse them of being sneaky as I pulled up to wait at the roundabout. 

 

They just smiled. 

 

Andy

Edited September 16 by SM42

[Coldgunner]

I stick to the old adage that you can't get caught speeding, if you don't speed. I'm not slow by any stretch, but I don't get intimidated by tailgaters and pricks. Never such as had a ticket, any points or anything. Clean license that I'm rather proud of.

 

That said, the villages that go from 30 to 20 to 30 to 20 can get in the bin. 

[stewartingram]

4 hours ago, jbqfc said:

got stuck in traffic come home from the supermarket to find an ASDA home delivery van on the roundabout with most of its contents on the road 

must have forgotten to close the shutter after his last drop off 

 

John 

 

I did a bit of driving for Tesco.com a few years ago. I was delivering one evening, near the beginning of my round in a village about 10 miles away, and turned right within an estate. Now I'm definitely not a loony driver honest! But as I turned right, the shutters rolled upwards, and the blue trays of shopping slid out. T'was the week before Xmas, with a lot of wine on board, you can guess what happened!

That van suffered a few times with that fault. On another occasion, just leaving the store and going round the roundabout outside, I heard the shutters move. I quickly stopped, and slammed them shut again.....

[black and decker boy]

3 hours ago, GrumpyPenguin said:

They are civilians, but I think you will find that they do now have the power to stop & issue PCN, NIP's & prohibitation notices.

They are allowed to display rear facing flashing red warning lights/beacons (currently, the Police are the only emergency service allowed to do so but I understand that it's due to change). Some of them even have electronic bullhorn/sirens for when they need to use the hard shoulder when the traffic is stationary.

Only a matter of time before they have blues.

Incorrect I’m afraid. National Highways Traffic officers have no enforcement powers.

 

this is from National Highways website:

Our traffic officers have powers to stop traffic so that incidents can be safely dealt with, and sometimes pass on evidence to the police if they witness dangerous driving or other offences. However, we’re not an enforcement organisation.

If someone is breaking the law you should contact the police on 101, or on 999 if the situation is urgent or life threatening. 

 

https://nationalhighways.co.uk/about-us/what-we-do/

[MrWolf]

5 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

I really couldn't say.

 

Is it me*, or has a chunk of this thread been censored since this morning?

 

Are things really getting that bad?

 

 

*No, it's not me.