Driving standards

[johnofwessex]

22 minutes ago, Nick C said:

 

 

That makes things rather impossible for self-employed tradespeople...

 

Well, its a business expense

[NBL]

1 hour ago, Nick C said:

 

 

That makes things rather impossible for self-employed tradespeople...

Not always, the houses in my bros estate all have double driveways, you can park your trade vehicle there, just not on the street.

 

Admittedly it is a very nice estate and it's done to keep the place looking nice.

[NBL]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

If the issue is fire access, the restrictions ARE enforced.

 

CJI.

Not always!  

 

I know of 1 car in particular that parks across a fire access track every day of the year, for years, and nothing is done, even when the emergency services tried to attend an incident!

[kevinlms]

2 hours ago, Nick C said:

 

 

That makes things rather impossible for self-employed tradespeople...

Why just self-employed? Any one that needs to attend, is going to have the same problem.

[kevinlms]

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Because, in most cases, there simply aren't enough parking spaces for the number of vehicles owned by the residents.

 

The antis here are very good at telling us what people SHOULDN'T do - but not so good at coming up with practical solutions.

 

CJI.

OK I'll bite!

 

If parking is as bad as you claim that people have to park dangerously illegally, because there is no alternative.

Then it's time someone decided to build a pay to park, car park! Problem solved until the whinging tight-fisted so and so's start up.

[John Isherwood]

4 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Why just self-employed? Any one that needs to attend, is going to have the same problem.

 

As far as new design is concerned, land values mean that developers will cram in as many units as possible, with no regard for such things as increased vehicle ownership.

 

Planning authorities could impose higher standards, but central government imposes stringent quotas for new houses - especially unprofitable 'affordable' ones - so higher standards would reduce their ability to fulfil house-building targets.

 

It's a seemingly insoluble conundrum!

 

CJI.

[kevinlms]

2 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

 

Well, its a business expense

No, it's a customer expense, if I have to pay parking to attend. If it's a short time at a meter, then I wouldn't bother. I had one in Melbourne CBD, where I had to attend for 3 separate 1/2 days and a corporate parking operator - total cost $270!

I billed the customer and he rang and asked why. I told him that was what it cost me and I have the receipts and remember before I came, I asked if you had off street parking available and you said no? He wasn't thrilled, but he paid.

It was the worst place in the city to park and I knew it was expensive there. This was at least 10 years ago.

[kevinlms]

2 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

It's a seemingly insoluble conundrum!

 

CJI.

Absolutely, but where developers are allowed to get away with it, what other outcome is there going to be? Of course anything 'done' is going to make the development more expensive to buy/rent. Another conundrum!

[John Isherwood]

7 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

OK I'll bite!

 

If parking is as bad as you claim that people have to park dangerously illegally, because there is no alternative.

Then it's time someone decided to build a pay to park, car park! Problem solved until the whinging tight-fisted so and so's start up.

 

In my professional experience, the worst problems of obstructive parking occur in older Victorian terraced streets.

 

Such properties tend to have minimal frontages - many are one room wide, with the front door opening into that room. Literally two up, two down.

 

During the late 20th century, such properties became 'gentrified', commanding high prices amongst the upwardly mobile - ideal for a couple, each having a demanding but well paid career.

 

Each need a car for work, but their property has a frontage of less than the length of a modern car.

 

Result - traffic and parking chaos, especially when you add in parking by workers in surrounding commercial premises.

 

Land usage is such that there is zero off-highway land available for parking.

 

So, I'd be delighted if anyone can tell me what the ultimate solution is - because I never found it in forty years of trying!

 

CJI.

[John Isherwood]

9 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

No, it's a customer expense, if I have to pay parking to attend. If it's a short time at a meter, then I wouldn't bother. I had one in Melbourne CBD, where I had to attend for 3 separate 1/2 days and a corporate parking operator - total cost $270!

I billed the customer and he rang and asked why. I told him that was what it cost me and I have the receipts and remember before I came, I asked if you had off street parking available and you said no? He wasn't thrilled, but he paid.

It was the worst place in the city to park and I knew it was expensive there. This was at least 10 years ago.

 

Kevin,

 

I now understand your problem - you live in Oz.

 

Having visited your wonderful country, I appreciate that it is impossible for you to visualise the density of housing in urban UK. Even in your older districts, the occupation density is a fraction of that typical in the UK.

 

As I've explained above, Victorian terraced development had tiny frontages - they were built for workers who walked or took the tram. Nowadays, two car ownership is the norm, and there's no prospect of changing that.

 

UK and Australasian residential circumstances simply don't translate!

 

CJI.

[Nick C]

3 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

 

Well, its a business expense

 

1 hour ago, kevinlms said:

Why just self-employed? Any one that needs to attend, is going to have the same problem.

The posts I was quoting were referring to vans parked over the weekend/not on a job, i.e. tradespeople taking their work vehicle home - for many self-employed people (e.g. a plumber or electrician) home is often their only premises, so where else could they park? Adding extra expenses for someone who is already struggling to get by isn't going to help much, especially when things like insurance are going up at record rates.

 

A bigger problem is people with huge SUVs when they only really need a hatchback, and households with multiple cars in areas that don't have space for them. I used to live in a Victorian terrace like those described by @cctransuk above - one neighbour had three cars, all on the road - even though they had room round the back where they could have made a driveway.

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Kevin,

 

I now understand your problem - you live in Oz.

 

Having visited your wonderful country, I appreciate that it is impossible for you to visualise the density of housing in urban UK. Even in your older districts, the occupation density is a fraction of that typical in the UK.

 

As I've explained above, Victorian terraced development had tiny frontages - they were built for workers who walked or took the tram. Nowadays, two car ownership is the norm, and there's no prospect of changing that.

 

UK and Australasian residential circumstances simply don't translate!

 

CJI.

Except you don't know that I'm a POM and have been back and yes there are some Victorian type terraces here too and there is exactly the same issues with parking.

I don't live in such an area, but have worked as a tradie, in those areas and it is nothing but a PITA. So much so I wouldn't live like that. At least not to expect to drive a vehicle. The last is the important bit.

 

The next door neighbour, currently has 3 cars, 2 of them SUV's, 1 boat and a caravan, all kept within his property.

 

As for parking, there was a news item here a while back, about an apartment style building with an underground car park. However the developer to squeeze the car park to the minimum size had down a deal with the council, to have a car stacker and traverser, thus allowing more cars. However, a vehicle fell off and is well and truly wedged in and it can't be got out!

It has trapped other collectors item cars inside and the last I heard there had been 18 months worth of 'negotiations' to resolve the issue.  As you can imagine, no one is happy!

So just because Australia is large, doesn't mean there aren't parking issues.

 

FWIW, I still don't agree that dangerous parking is acceptable!!

[John Isherwood]

2 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

FWIW, I still don't agree that dangerous parking is acceptable!!

 

I agree - and have not suggested that it is.

 

I do, however, understand the reasons why it happens, and I have yet to discover a practicable solution.

 

CJI.

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Nick C said:

 

The posts I was quoting were referring to vans parked over the weekend/not on a job, i.e. tradespeople taking their work vehicle home - for many self-employed people (e.g. a plumber or electrician) home is often their only premises, so where else could they park? Adding extra expenses for someone who is already struggling to get by isn't going to help much, especially when things like insurance are going up at record rates.

 

A bigger problem is people with huge SUVs when they only really need a hatchback, and households with multiple cars in areas that don't have space for them. I used to live in a Victorian terrace like those described by @cctransuk above - one neighbour had three cars, all on the road - even though they had room round the back where they could have made a driveway.

 

There is a growing disease of car owners/users failing to think of anyone other than themselves, certainly its most apparent in the under 30's and those with expensive cars, many don't park their cars anymore, they abandon them, the plague of white van man/delivery drivers and HGV drivers thinking they are Lewis Hamilton with their lane changing maneuvers. There are exceptions in all of these categories, the road I live in has about 22 houses, 2/3rds owner occupiers, the other third rented, sadly 2 out of the 6 or 7 rented properties have younger visitors who just park where they want, even in the middle of a turning circle of blocking a driveway, sadly with it being an un-adopted road little can be done. I am just relieved I don't live and work in North London anymore  

 

Does the requirement of having to pass a driving test not exist anymore?

[johnofwessex]

26 minutes ago, hayfield said:

............................sadly 2 out of the 6 or 7 rented properties have younger visitors who just park where they want, even in the middle of a turning circle of blocking a driveway, sadly with it being an un-adopted road little can be done. ...............

 

Get on to the landlords/agents 

 

The requirement not to cause a nuasance to adjoining neighbours is standard in tenancy agrfeements

 

Also try the Local Authority, there may be issues around licensing

[Hroth]

Passing appropriate driving tests, and having proper insurance is still a legal requirement.  However, making the effort to pass tests and spend money on tests and insurance seems to be viewed as an optional extra by many "drivers".

 

[Reorte]

5 minutes ago, Hroth said:

Passing appropriate driving tests, and having proper insurance is still a legal requirement.  However, making the effort to pass tests and spend money on tests and insurance seems to be viewed as an optional extra by many "drivers".

Even if someone passes the test it doesn't mean they're going to carry on driving in a manner that would pass a test. Some will do whatever is needed to get through it and regard it as no more than that.

[Hroth]

6 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Even if someone passes the test it doesn't mean they're going to carry on driving in a manner that would pass a test. Some will do whatever is needed to get through it and regard it as no more than that.

 

Thing is, they're more likely to be disqualified in their first two years, then continue to drive without licence or insurance.  Selfish twunts.

 

[johnd]

12 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Even if someone passes the test it doesn't mean they're going to carry on driving in a manner that would pass a test. Some will do whatever is needed to get through it and regard it as no more than that.

Sadly society has now breed so called humans with the attitude of " I will do what I want, when I want and how I want and nobody can tell me to do anything  otherwise " 

There is only one thing that sort it all out and that would bring about much suffering !

Enough said 

[Deeps]

3 hours ago, cctransuk said:

I agree - and have not suggested that it is.

 

I do, however, understand the reasons why it happens, and I have yet to discover a practicable solution.

We have to deal with human nature on a daily basis, which means that even the most morally upstanding member of society will ‘bend’ the rules when necessity demands. 

 

One solution to parking in terraced streets would be for the council to compulsorily purchase a block of the houses, demolish them and turn the space into a residents only car park. I should imagine the uproar would be significant, and I doubt the council in question would be too happy at the resultant reduction in council tax income.

 

Please excuse my somewhat mad thinking on this, and I had a similar plan to provide designated cycle roads, but at the end of the day when we pay our taxes we expect something in return. Therefore the councils should be helping us to accommodate the realities of the modern world. 

 

There again, with the current drive (no joke intended) towards ridding the roads of private vehicles, the problem may become academic in the  coming years!

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Deeps said:

One solution to parking in terraced streets would be for the council to compulsorily purchase a block of the houses, demolish them and turn the space into a residents only car park.

 

I've lived somewhere like that. The downside is people are still tools when it comes to parking. You end up with enough dings down the side of your car it looks like a zip.

[Pete the Elaner]

34 minutes ago, Deeps said:

 

One solution to parking in terraced streets would be for the council to compulsorily purchase a block of the houses, demolish them and turn the space into a residents only car park. I should imagine the uproar would be significant, and I doubt the council in question would be too happy at the resultant reduction in council tax income.

 

 

I live in an area built like that: A cul-de-sac of garages with houses behind them, but, aside from the corner spots, each garage has space for a car in front.

Many households now have 2 cars (including mine) but also most of the residents use their garages for storage, so their second car is....? The area is becoming increasingly untidy & I occasionally find somebody has blocked me in, or parked in the space in front of my garage while I have been out shopping.

[IWCR]

Back  in  the  80's  I  worked  for  a  local  council.  Their  Policy  then  was  a  minimum  of  1 1/2  off  road  parking  spaces  per  property  includung flats.  One  developer  didnt  want  this,  wanting  to  jam  more  properties  in  and  they  appealled  the  planning  condition..  He  won,  central  government  granted  the  appeal  and  also  awarded  costs  against  the  council.  This  was  of  course  followed  by  a  free  for  all,  I  dont  know  the  current  rules.

 

Pete

[Deeps]

26 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

I've lived somewhere like that. The downside is people are still tools when it comes to parking. You end up with enough dings down the side of your car it looks like a zip.

Again, we deserve to be provided with the necessary facilities to avoid such things. It’s never going to happen of course.

 

I consider myself fortunate to live in the country, with ample parking, but the issue has been eased since retirement and we now only need one car. If I lived in a town, in an area with the problems mentioned, then I might well revert to an old Series 3 Landrover and not be bothered by the occasional ‘zip’ mark (and the tow hitch on the back is a very useful gauge when reversing in to a tight spot).

[petethemole]

3 hours ago, hayfield said:

those with expensive cars, many don't park their cars anymore, they abandon them,

The late Michael Winner would park his Roller wherever he liked in London (allegedly).  Apparently it was cheaper to pay one parking ticket than for several hours parking.  This was in the '90s.