Driving standards

[John Isherwood]

A typical example taken from my forty year career in local government traffic management.

 

A small enclave of Victorian terraced housing provided a popular rat-run avoiding a congested, traffic-light controlled crossroads.

 

The residents, for once, were united - the rat-running traffic threatened their very existence, and MUST be stopped!

 

A residents' committee was formed; campaigns were organised; protestors blocked roads, etc., etc.

 

Eventually, it became an election issue - and suddenly shot to the top of the priority list.

 

I was briefed to come up with a once-and-for-all, cast iron, no-holds-barred solution.

 

Such a solution was obvious - the area in question had one entrance / exit onto each of the major roads in question.

 

I drew up detailed proposals, including artist's impressions, for physically closing one of the two entrance / exits to motor traffic; pedestrian and pedal cycle traffic would be unaffected.

 

When published, the proposal caused outrage! Such a scheme would add a quarter of a mile to 50% of their car journeys! Who had the effrontery to propose such an ridiculous idea?! A public poll rejected the scheme out of hand.

 

A subsequent meeting established that all that was required was a couple of 'NO MOTOR VEHICLES, EXCEPT FOR ACCESS' signs.

 

These were duly erected; totally ignored and unenforced; and the rat-run resumed as before.

 

This did not prevent the residents from once again demanding that 'SOMETHING MUST BE DONE'!

 

I could relate such episodes ad infinitum - suffice to say that opinions alter when the apparently obvious solution might adversely affect the interested parties!

 

CJI.

[Nick C]

11 hours ago, MrWolf said:

Or a really old Skoda.*

 

*Also handy for supermarket car parks.

 

Bundesarchiv 

What, like this?

 

https://www.basingstokegazette.co.uk/news/24012619.tank-outside-wickes-man-fumes-poor-quality-kitchen/

 

An Abbot self-propelled gun to be exact, and it stayed there over a month...

[John Isherwood]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

I think that I'd rather have my burglary investigated, given a choice.

 

CJI.

 

A hypothetical burglary, I hasten to add!

 

CJI.

[fulton]

15 hours ago, stewartingram said:

Our local PC (over 20 years since I moved away from there) was old school, and used to enforce it on our estate. Seen him issue tickets. Also cars parked on the wrong side of the road (facing traffic). Sadly he retired shortly before I moved. That's how it used to be, but times have changed.

I remember my Dad being very annoyed getting a fine because his parking light was not working, I think the car battery had gone flat, it was normally a bump start, you used to have to display a light at night, which normally clipped on the drivers window, displaying red to rear, white to front.

[Sidecar Racer]

 

 Here are a couple of real driving standards videos .

 

 

 

[MrWolf]

3 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

I think that I'd rather have my burglary investigated, given a choice.

 

CJI.

 

Good luck with that!

[Coldgunner]

I'm guessing where dashcam footage and a clear numberplate are given as evidence, then many cases can probably be triaged within minutes (theoretically) upon submission/review.

[John Isherwood]

20 hours ago, PaulCheffus said:

Hi

 

Not around here it isn’t unfortunately. People also think it’s a good idea to park right up to a blind bend so in order for you to get around it you have to be on the wrong side of the road.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

Let me pose a question.

 

Your employment hours mean that you don't arrive home until late evening. All of the non-dodgy parking spaces are full by that time.

 

The alternative option is to park three streets away, where there is usually spare capacity.

 

Please tell us what you would do.

 

CJI.

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

The alternative option is to park three streets away, where there is usually spare capacity.

 

The bloke who delivered two tonnes of hardcore to our house in a truck without rear axle steering had to park three streets away and drag it by pump truck because of all the people parked like nobbers.

He was quite sweary about it.

[MrWolf]

Last year we had some fool park across the gated tunnel to our garages and my workshop. It's clearly marked do not block, a single white line, signs and CCTV. Twelve people couldn't get in or out. The car belonged to one of the mobile home carer's companies and had their name and number on the side.

I phoned their head office, gave them the reg number and asked them to phone the driver to shift it. If it had been a civvy car it would have been a matter of getting the police to shift it. 

[Nick C]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Let me pose a question.

 

Your employment hours mean that you don't arrive home until late evening. All of the non-dodgy parking spaces are full by that time.

 

The alternative option is to park three streets away, where there is usually spare capacity.

 

Please tell us what you would do.

 

CJI.

Made worse by most modern housing estates deliberately being built without enough parking - there is one near my parents with the usual one or two spaces per house, despite being in a village with three buses a week - so every house has at least two cars...

[John Isherwood]

22 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

The bloke who delivered two tonnes of hardcore to our house in a truck without rear axle steering had to park three streets away and drag it by pump truck because of all the people parked like nobbers.

He was quite sweary about it.

 

I can't believe that a delivery of two tons of hardcore to a residential property is an everyday occurrence.

 

Are we to leave our streets empty of parked cars, just in case a three ton truck should require access?

 

The problem is that most residential streets were not designed to accommodate even one car per household, let alone the four belonging to my neighbour - and many others.

 

Can you imagine trying to limit car ownership to what an area can accommodate without 'dodgy parking'.

 

Accept it - 'dodgy parking' is an inevitable product of society's 'inalienable right' to have private transport - and that's not going to change any time soon.

 

CJI.

[PaulCheffus]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Let me pose a question.

 

Your employment hours mean that you don't arrive home until late evening. All of the non-dodgy parking spaces are full by that time.

 

The alternative option is to park three streets away, where there is usually spare capacity.

 

Please tell us what you would do.

 

CJI.

Hi

 

The person in question has an adequate drive but because they have multiple vehicles choose to leave one on the corner to save having to swap the cars over.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3595445,0.0994879,3a,75y,341.13h,81.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sV8zgAnDDL0zr3s1Rb0nrDA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

 

This is the corner and the owner of the cars lives in the house just to the right of the image with the car on the drive. I don't think your theoretical question applies here.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I can't believe that a delivery of two tons of hardcore to a residential property is an everyday occurrence.

 

Are we to leave our streets empty of parked cars, just in case a three ton truck should require access?

 

The problem is that most residential streets were not designed to accommodate even one car per household, let alone the four belonging to my neighbour - and many others.

 

Can you imagine trying to limit car ownership to what an area can accommodate without 'dodgy parking'.

 

Accept it - 'dodgy parking' is an inevitable product of society's 'inalienable right' to have private transport - and that's not going to change any time soon.

 

1. Yes it is. Go ask any Buildbase (called something different now) driver. That's why their trucks have rear axle steer

2. What? Like a fire engine for example?

3. Estate built in 2007

4. Japan does it. See. 'kei cars'

5. No.

[petethemole]

10 minutes ago, Nick C said:

Made worse by most modern housing estates deliberately being built without enough parking - there is one near my parents with the usual one or two spaces per house, despite being in a village with three buses a week - so every house has at least two cars...

This estate was built in the late 20s-mid 30s in the 'Garden city' style as social housing, now about a third freehold. It had no provision for parking except on street.  Subsequent provision of garages on former allotments and parking spaces cutting into green areas probably sufficed for the 60s.  Now many houses have two cars or more, and some a LGV van, and some of the garages are used for storage.  Parts of the green areas are regularly used for cars, paved front gardens are common and cars are frequently parked too close to junctions. The junction SWMBO uses to exit our bit often has a van parked right on the corner, obstructing the view to the left.  This is a problem because that is the one dead straight bit of road on the estate and the BMWs and hot hatches often tear up it, hidden by the van.  It's not the same van all the time, but it's a handy spot for delivery vans, tradesmen etc to park.

[Reorte]

41 minutes ago, Nick C said:

Made worse by most modern housing estates deliberately being built without enough parking - there is one near my parents with the usual one or two spaces per house, despite being in a village with three buses a week - so every house has at least two cars...

Definitely.

 

It's all very well people going on about things like "it's a privilege, not a right to have a car" but the simple fact is that we've built our current world around easy car availability, and it's simply not possible for most people to get by practically in this day and age without one. Yes, it's practical for some to manage, and a lot could change their circumstances so that they're one of those some, but only at the expense of someone being shifted the other way.

 

Centralisation of jobs, services, shops etc., unless that's all somehow reversed then a large proportion of car usage is here to stay. And it's hard to see how that can be reversed when the reason most of the local shops, jobs, and services have vanished is because they simply can't compete with the efficiencies of scale brought on by the centralisation. I don't think that's a good thing at all but I can't see what can be realistically done about it.

Edited February 13 by Reorte

[John Isherwood]

6 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

1. Yes it is. Go ask any Buildbase (called something different now) driver. That's why their trucks have rear axle steer

2. What? Like a fire engine for example?

3. Estate built in 2007

4. Japan does it. See. 'kei cars'

5. No.

 

1] So we leave all streets free of parked cars at all times for the once-a-year occasion when someone wants 3T of hardcore?

 

2] If the fire service have accessibility problems, they can and do contact the police and the highway authority in order to get parking restrictions imposed, (which simply displaces the problematic vehicles elsewhere).

 

3] Just because it was designed in 2007 is no guarantee whatsoever that adequate parking was provided for 2024 vehicle ownership levels.

 

4] Japan has a national propensity for being crammed, rammed and brow-beaten into whatever restrictions authority imposes on the population - I wouldn't recommend trying that on the typical UK 'I know my rights' citizen!

 

5] That is your choice - just don't complain here when you have a heart attack or nervous breakdown - CHILL.

 

CJI.

[Nick C]

4 minutes ago, petethemole said:

This estate was built in the late 20s-mid 30s in the 'Garden city' style as social housing, now about a third freehold. It had no provision for parking except on street.  Subsequent provision of garages on former allotments and parking spaces cutting into green areas probably sufficed for the 60s.  Now many houses have two cars or more, and some a LGV van, and some of the garages are used for storage.  Parts of the green areas are regularly used for cars, paved front gardens are common and cars are frequently parked too close to junctions. The junction SWMBO uses to exit our bit often has a van parked right on the corner, obstructing the view to the left.  This is a problem because that is the one dead straight bit of road on the estate and the BMWs and hot hatches often tear up it, hidden by the van.  It's not the same van all the time, but it's a handy spot for delivery vans, tradesmen etc to park.

Ours is mid-60s and has similar problems - the point I was making earlier, and is clearly shown up by @30801's last post, is that they're still doing it despite knowing modern car ownership patterns - in fact it was, for some time, general planning policy to deliberately restrict the number of parking spaces - it appears from our local council's documentation that this only changed in 2015.

[Nick C]

8 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Definitely.

 

It's all very well people going on about things like "it's a privilege, not a right to have a car" but the simple fact is that we've built our current world around easy car availability, and it's simply not possible for most people to get buy practically in this day and age without one. Yes, it's practical for some to manage, and a lot could change their circumstances so that they're one of those some, but only at the expense of someone being shifted the other way.

 

Centralisation of jobs, services, shops etc., unless that's all somehow reversed then a large proportion of car usage is here to stay. And it's hard to see how that can be reversed when the reason most of the local shops, jobs, and services have vanished is because they simply can't compete with the efficiencies of scale brought on by the centralisation. I don't think that's a good thing at all but I can't see what can be realistically done about it.

Which is of course what the concept of 15-minute cities was intended to alleviate, before getting hijacked by the hard-right...

 

Plus as we've seen with the push-back against remote working post-Covid, there are too many influential people with a vested interest in centralising everything and selling more cars and hydrocarbon fuel...

[Reorte]

4 minutes ago, Nick C said:

Which is of course what the concept of 15-minute cities was intended to alleviate, before getting hijacked by the hard-right...

That always seemed more stick than carrot.

Quote

Plus as we've seen with the push-back against remote working post-Covid, there are too many influential people with a vested interest in centralising everything and selling more cars and hydrocarbon fuel...

It's simply that it's more economically efficient, so that's what survives. It's not been forced by vested interests in selling cars and fuel.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

1] So we leave all streets free of parked cars at all times for the once-a-year occasion when someone wants 3T of hardcore?

 

I'm suggesting people don't park like complete tools. Not sure why you have a problem with that.

[John Isherwood]

Just now, 30801 said:

 

I'm suggesting people don't park like complete tools. Not sure why you have a problem with that.

 

'Complete tools' is a subjective opinion.

 

I still await an answer to my hypothetical, late arrival parking dilemma - which I suspect leads to quite a bit of 'dodgy, complete tool' parking.

 

It's all very well having strong opinions on such matters but, if you can't suggest a reasonable alternative, it achieves little.

 

CJI.

[Nick C]

2 minutes ago, Reorte said:

That always seemed more stick than carrot.

Exactly my point - the media decided to conflate "Low traffic neighbourhoods" (the stick) with "15-minute city" (the carrot) - the original proposals for the latter never included the former, merely making sure that residential districts ought to have everything they need locally.

 

2 minutes ago, Reorte said:

It's simply that it's more economically efficient, so that's what survives. It's not been forced by vested interests in selling cars and fuel.

I disagree - look at the huge push to get people back into central London. There's no way that's more economically efficient, London office space is way more expensive than elsewhere (A quick google finds this link suggesting that, per-desk, London is 4 times more expensive than Basingstoke), not to mention that staff need to be paid more to afford London living or commuting. A huge proportion of our traffic problems are caused by commuting and school runs, so anything that can reduce the number of cars used at these times has to be a good thing. 

[Reorte]

2 minutes ago, Nick C said:

Exactly my point - the media decided to conflate "Low traffic neighbourhoods" (the stick) with "15-minute city" (the carrot) - the original proposals for the latter never included the former, merely making sure that residential districts ought to have everything they need locally.

 

I disagree - look at the huge push to get people back into central London. There's no way that's more economically efficient, London office space is way more expensive than elsewhere (A quick google finds this link suggesting that, per-desk, London is 4 times more expensive than Basingstoke), not to mention that staff need to be paid more to afford London living or commuting. A huge proportion of our traffic problems are caused by commuting and school runs, so anything that can reduce the number of cars used at these times has to be a good thing. 

I'm not in London but the last couple of years has been a right PITA for getting stuff done due to people not being available on site, it being much harder to work through issues when people are scattered all over the place - remote calls are no substitute for face to face discussions when working through complex technical problems.

 

Anyway that sort of proves my point I think. Why aren't those offices in Basingstoke then? Businesses don't operate on sentiment (to be honest the level of rejection of it is frequently more of a curse than a blessing, but that's a digression). They've centralised to London, leaving other places not much more than dormitory towns. I'm actually against faster travel because it  exacerbates that effect. Businesses the idea for pretty much the same reason.

 

School runs? Need smaller, more local schools then. Which costs more...

 

[NBL]

8 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

* You would still get some twot/twotess in their chelsea tractor who would reverse into you saying they never saw you!

 

Mike.

16 hours ago, MrWolf said:

Or a really old Skoda.*

 

*Also handy for supermarket car parks.

 

Bundesarchiv 

 

Guaranteed a Dacia would drive right into the side of that.  Never known any other make attract such incompetent drivers.

 

They make Audi/BMW/Golf/Vectra drivers look like knights of the road.