Driving standards

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, kevinlms said:

True, but teamwork works best. But many will never understand that concept.

 

 

Totally agree with you and I think there is a thing about motoring "Karma" do unto others what you wish on yourself.

 

On the other hand drive an old bashed up car, surprisingly enough Chelsea tractors, beamers and mercs do give way !!! 

[Coldgunner]

I do ease up if I see someone coming up the slip and making an attempt to join the flow of traffic. What happened last night is the person had come to a near stop on the carriageway. The person letting the guy in made the dangerous mistake of (nearly) stopping. Some slips on the A1 between Grantham and Peterborough are short but my technique is to drop to 3rd or occasionallly 2nd to give myself the acceleration to join traffic at a sensible speed in a short run.

 

I sometimes hold back and give a quick flash if I want them to know I'm holding back to give them time, and I've seen them.

[Reorte]

15 hours ago, kevinlms said:

True, but teamwork works best. But many will never understand that concept.

 

Means that coming down the slip road you need to accelerate or slow to match a gap, and be prepared for the possibility of their not being one whilst drivers on the main road should ideally help create space if they can without inconveniencing anyone else already on the main road. Ultimately the responsibility is for joining traffic to give way but it's good manners to help, up to a point (the point probably being if you make anyone else on the main road brake).

 

I find in general that in most traffic conditions drivers in this country are pretty good at helping each other, it's the occasional selfish one that stands out though. Because of the amount of traffic around even a fraction of a percent of bad drivers means you'll see one fairly often.

[bimble]

in theory people in lane one shouldn't be travelling so close together that a car can't slip in between them... especially if they've managed to get up to speed on the slip road. Merging requires space.

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, bimble said:

in theory people in lane one shouldn't be travelling so close together that a car can't slip in between them... especially if they've managed to get up to speed on the slip road. Merging requires space.

 

Motorways are running at way above their original intended capacity, and if motorists kept the "correct" distance apart one of two things would happen, either some twot would jump into the space or there would be a backlog of cars at the beginning of the motorway waiting to get on and commence their journey.

 

Mike.

[Compound2632]

9 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Motorways are running at way above their original intended capacity, and if motorists kept the "correct" distance apart one of two things would happen, either some twot would jump into the space or there would be a backlog of cars at the beginning of the motorway waiting to get on and commence their journey.

 

 

What you are saying there is in fact that they are unsafe at the national speed limit - which is exactly why we're seeing the move to managed motorways with variable speed limits.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Compound2632

[Ian Abel]

On ‎19‎/‎01‎/‎2020 at 16:27, JDW said:

ADVANCE WARNING!

Today I, in a brief moment of insanity, and led astray from the path which I intended to take (Jaguar XE/XF, Peugeot 508, Volvo S90, Infiniti Q50, VW Passat CC), accidentally bought a BMW 5-series. This is therefore an advance warning, to prevent shock and temporary incapacity, that anyone seeing a BMW with registration starting JD should expect indicators to be used at all times, and in a correct manner. I apologise for any confusion this may cause, I can only ascribe this temporary insanity to the grief following the writing off of my 607... 

I apologize in advance, but felt the need for someone to provide the obligatory "cor blimey , you paid for the indicator option then, eh!"

 

Coat, hat, on me bike

 

[royaloak]

On 19/01/2020 at 22:27, JDW said:

ADVANCE WARNING!

Today I, in a brief moment of insanity, and led astray from the path which I intended to take (Jaguar XE/XF, Peugeot 508, Volvo S90, Infiniti Q50, VW Passat CC), accidentally bought a BMW 5-series. This is therefore an advance warning, to prevent shock and temporary incapacity, that anyone seeing a BMW with registration starting JD should expect indicators to be used at all times, and in a correct manner. I apologise for any confusion this may cause, I can only ascribe this temporary insanity to the grief following the writing off of my 607... 

Thats 2 of us using the STANDARD fitment indicators on our BMWs as intended then, welcome to the club.

[stewartingram]

On 20/01/2020 at 19:18, Coldgunner said:

 

 

I sometimes hold back and give a quick flash if I want them to know I'm holding back to give them time, and I've seen them.

Which is actually very dangerous. If interpreted correctly (as per the Highway Code) it indicates your presence to remind the other driver; it is NOT a signal to to give the other driver permission to join. Even more pedantic, the only indication that can be used to instruct a driver to do anything can only be given by a Policeman.

[Coldgunner]

Fair play, I rarely flash mind, but I do try to ease up the speed to give space to merge. I've been forced to brake sharply many times due to folks merging at 30/40 mph into 60/70mph traffic. I was always taught that the slip road is for building speed to merge and match at the carriageway speed. I've nearly been shoved into the RH lane many times due to people merging on the left and not looking over their right shoulder. I simply don't trust other drivers to see me.

 

Tonights rant - lights (or lack of)

 

GRRRRRRR

Edited January 21, 2020 by Coldgunner

[royaloak]

9 minutes ago, Coldgunner said:

I was always taught that the slip road is for building speed to merge and match at the carriageway speed.

My instructor called it the acceleration lane, quite self explanatory really.

 

Quote

I've nearly been shoved into the RH lane many times due to people merging on the left and not looking over their right shoulder. I simply don't trust other drivers to see me.

Thats what the horn is for if you cant safely move over.

[Coldgunner]

6 minutes ago, royaloak said:

Thats what the horn is for if you cant safely move over.

 

Exactly, they often find that out. I think some people drive in a 'tunnel' and don't see anything outside of there own little world.

[royaloak]

2 minutes ago, Coldgunner said:

 

Exactly, they often find that out. I think some people drive in a 'tunnel' and don't see anything outside of there own little world.

I genuinely believe that some people think they have got the right of way regardless of lane markings, indicators or the highway code, you know that book they read a week before passing their test!

[Coldgunner]

I do wonder about those 5-day courses and how beneficial they truly are? I spent over a year learning, with weekly lessons and I got to do a bit of rain, one or two lessons in snow and other day to day weather occurrences and I feel all the better for it. I think technology also doesn't help a great deal and we're becoming too reliant on it. Window sills in some cars are shoulder height, really limiting the view. A and B pillars having airbags (this is still a good idea), make them fatter and obstruct your vision. Sat navs, funky screens and HUD's flooding the cabin with light at night and driver assist technologies lulling people into a false sense of security.

 

5 star euro ncap on your expensive volvo ain't gonna do jack when you're sideswiped by a 40t arctic.

 

edit: oh yeah, is it also fashionable to sit so low as you can barely see over the steering wheel?

Edited January 21, 2020 by Coldgunner

[royaloak]

29 minutes ago, Coldgunner said:

I do wonder about those 5-day courses and how beneficial they truly are?

Especially when they do them in the Spring with the result the first time they see any proper slippery conditions is after they have been driving for 9 months and are well into cocky 'I am a good driver' mode.

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, Coldgunner said:

 

Exactly, they often find that out. I think some people drive in a 'tunnel' and don't see anything outside of there own little world.

 

Situational awareness of your surroundings and what's going on around you is an essential skill but one that's rather hard to effectively teach and test. Maybe the armed forces could give some pointers, I imagine it's crucial for their job.

[jcm@gwr]

15 minutes ago, Reorte said:

 

Situational awareness of your surroundings and what's going on around you is an essential skill but one that's rather hard to effectively teach and test. Maybe the armed forces could give some pointers, I imagine it's crucial for their job.

 

but for some it comes naturally, it is a logical extension of self-preservation!

[Sir TophamHatt]

16 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

What you are saying there is in fact that they are unsafe at the national speed limit - which is exactly why we're seeing the move to managed motorways with variable speed limits.

That isn't what the person is saying at all.

 

It's that people travel too close together and if they didn't, there would be a backlog of people wishing to join the motorway - nothing to do with speed limits or those funny signs, which nobody cares about.
 

[Sir TophamHatt]

What gets me about slip roads (particularly on joining the motorway), is that people don't use them to speed up to an appropriate speed.

Joining a motorway at 40mph isn't safe (unless there's slow moving traffic already of course!).

 

Similarly people who think joining the motorway from the hard shoulder at 20mph is a good idea.

I really don't understand their thought process with that action.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

12 hours ago, royaloak said:

Especially when they do them in the Spring with the result the first time they see any proper slippery conditions is after they have been driving for 9 months and are well into cocky 'I am a good driver' mode.

Worse yet than that. Even for those that spent months on a course of instruction, in the Southern UK they might go several years never encountering a properly icy/snow covered road. And then, all to pieces! I reckon on 10% of drivers being completely new to this when there is snowfall, and the numbers simply sliding into stationary objects or off the road I think bears that out. Even HGV pilots. On 10th December 2017 I watched as three going about 35mph on the A1 North bound just after junction 6, all one after the other slid off the carriageway into the shrubbery on the very slight curve. Full control was impossible above 15mph.

 

I had evaluated that within 50 yards of home. It took three hours for the twenty some miles we went (off to a wedding!) much of it evading more ambitious drivers to get to their accident. And many of them did!

 

12 hours ago, Reorte said:

Situational awareness of your surroundings and what's going on around you is an essential skill but one that's rather hard to effectively teach and test...

Contrariwise I think a very simple method is now on offer. Insist that the applicant for a provisional licence has been riding a pedal bike a thousand miles a year on public roads for five years. This is now possible with automated monitoring, registered mobile phone with GPS automatically recording that it is this person (filmed) riding these routes, with a scheduled download link to DVLA to build up the qualification for a provisional licence. And do it again before another test can be taken, if you commit a major blooper while driving a powered vehicle. (Because if riding a bike hasn't given you situational awareness, then the likelihood is you will be culled in an accrued ten years on a bike, problem terminated.)

[TheQ]

Try getting your test on any of the UK Islands.

Depending on which one, you may have some or more likely none of the below.

Traffic lights,

Roundabouts,,

Dual carriageways,

Motorways. 

Zebra crossings,

Hills,

Much traffic , other than sheep.

 Yet they can leave their island and drive to any populated area with all of the above..

[Reorte]

46 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

What gets me about slip roads (particularly on joining the motorway), is that people don't use them to speed up to an appropriate speed.

Joining a motorway at 40mph isn't safe (unless there's slow moving traffic already of course!).

 

Similarly people who think joining the motorway from the hard shoulder at 20mph is a good idea.

I really don't understand their thought process with that action.

 

There are (or were) one or two exceptions - joining the M6 north at J34 was horrendous because there was no acceleration lane whatsoever, so you had to be able to stop if there was no gap. Thankfully gone now with recent-ish major rebuilding of the that junction due to the Heysham link. Junction 15 north was also pretty terrible, a very tight bend leading up to it made it impossible to get up to speed, but quite a while back some of the hard shoulder was pinched to give a much longer acceleration lane.

 

But in general I completely agree with you.

[Nick C]

35 minutes ago, Reorte said:

 

There are (or were) one or two exceptions - joining the M6 north at J34 was horrendous because there was no acceleration lane whatsoever, so you had to be able to stop if there was no gap. Thankfully gone now with recent-ish major rebuilding of the that junction due to the Heysham link. Junction 15 north was also pretty terrible, a very tight bend leading up to it made it impossible to get up to speed, but quite a while back some of the hard shoulder was pinched to give a much longer acceleration lane.

 

But in general I completely agree with you.

The slip from the A34 to the A303 eastbound is like that - sharp bend, then a very short acceleration lane, combined with very poor visibility. I'm constantly surprised that there hasn't been a big accident there. Luckily if you know the area it's quite easy to avoid it, and use the much safer junction a couple of miles further east.

[Reorte]

57 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Contrariwise I think a very simple method is now on offer. Insist that the applicant for a provisional licence has been riding a pedal bike a thousand miles a year on public roads for five years. This is now possible with automated monitoring, registered mobile phone with GPS automatically recording that it is this person (filmed) riding these routes, with a scheduled download link to DVLA to build up the qualification for a provisional licence. And do it again before another test can be taken, if you commit a major blooper while driving a powered vehicle. (Because if riding a bike hasn't given you situational awareness, then the likelihood is you will be culled in an accrued ten years on a bike, problem terminated.)

 

Far too Big Brother for my liking! Being tracked makes my skin crawl.

[rockershovel]

I generally reckon Coventry has the worst ring road around, a very early design crammed in amongst the wartime devastation, although Birmingham is another shocker. 

 

But, let’s call a spade, a spade.

 

We have allowed a vast influx from countries not generally noted for excellence of driving standards.

 

Our tv networks show frequent programmes in which driving like a lunatic on public roads, forms the principal subject matter. What better daytime viewing, for our sizeable population of unemployed and under-employed? 

 

Our road network is grossly overloaded, far beyond the point where cutesy tricks like variable speed limits and driving on the hard shoulder offer solutions. Some roads (the M56 comes to mind) spend long periods of the day in gridlock. Much of the NorthEast and NorthWest have road networks comprising endless mazes of slip roads and multi-way junctions. 

 

Large numbers of those still employed, are in contract work which generates huge traffic volumes over and above the working day (because that’s a common side-effect of having no fixed place of work) and does nothing to encourage courtesy behind the wheel. Large numbers of mostly unregulated couriers swarm along our roads, parking wherever they can at times. 

 

There is staggering volumes of HGV traffic, much of it driving furiously to reach destinations on the limits of permitted driving hours (the origin and purpose of the “Golden Triangle” around Daventry)

 

Long sections of road are under protracted repair, reconstruction or just temporary closure for no visible reason; some, like the Oldbury viaduct, appears to have defeated their original purpose and become effectively, permanent obstructions. 

 

Anyone who can afford it, drives around in a 2-ton 4x4 or 150mph German saloon. Most cars under about 15 years old have performance which was once confined to racing circuits, 

 

Our police have mostly abandoned the attempt to police this chaos, unless they can put up some cameras and generate some money, and this is common knowledge. 

 

Frankly, I’m only surprised that driving standards are at their present level.