Driving standards

[62613]

2 hours ago, Welly said:

Careful, the driver might just reverse suddenly while you are on the bonnet.

Not if there's someone immediately behind him, he won't! Gender for illustrative purposes only.

 

Edited January 18, 2020 by 62613

[PhilJ W]

A question about bikes/footpaths. My friends young son had a scooter for Christmas. Its not an ordinary scooter as the footboard is a treadle which by moving it up and down propels the scooter so like a bicycle the riders feet do not have to touch the ground to propel it. So would it be considered the same as a bicycle? 

[Compound2632]

There's a whole class of popular power-assisted vehicles of the scooterish sort which cannot be legally used on either the carriageway or the footway - I was recently nearly mown down by an adult on one coming at a brisk pace around a blind corner...

[rockershovel]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

A question about bikes/footpaths. My friends young son had a scooter for Christmas. Its not an ordinary scooter as the footboard is a treadle which by moving it up and down propels the scooter so like a bicycle the riders feet do not have to touch the ground to propel it. So would it be considered the same as a bicycle? 

 

the regulations simply state that the that the vehicle in question is propelled by muscular effort, by means of pedals, rather than some sort of motor (or, presumably, sail?). You might feel that operating a treadle was different from a pedal, in that one rotates and the other reciprocates, but I greatly doubt that a magistrate would be much impressed by such reasoning. Then again, that's why lawyers drive Lexus and I drive a Skoda.. I get paid to be right, they get paid not to be demonstrably wrong; in which case, they are paid just the same...

 

Nor do the regulations differentiate between a bicycle or scooter; saddles are referenced but there is no apparent requirement for a bicycle to be so equipped, so a scooter is presumably a bicycle within the intent of the regulations. 

 

This presumably means that all scooters should be fitted with a bell, although I've never seen one so fitted. 

 

Edited January 18, 2020 by rockershovel

[Compound2632]

37 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

This presumably means that all scooters should be fitted with a bell, although I've never seen one so fitted. 

 

 

When my younger son was about three, he had a horn - the squeezy variety - on his scooter. I see now that his use of this was frequently illegal as he would sound it for sheer pleasure rather than just to warn other footway users of his approach.

[ejstubbs]

3 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

My friends young son had a scooter for Christmas.

 

If the young son in question is under the age of legal responsibility (12 in most of the UK, 8 in Scotland IIRC) then nothing can be done about them riding it on the footway anyway.  This is, I think, a more sensible instance in which the police will tend to use reasonable discretion.

 

1 hour ago, rockershovel said:

This presumably means that all scooters should be fitted with a bell

 

Technically I believe you are only required to possess an "audible means of warning" - for which the voice is adequate in the case of a bicycle (or scooter).  In fact a stentorian bellow can be much more effective than a tinkly bell if the road user needing to be warned is cocooned within a modern motor vehicle.

 

In my experience plenty of pedestrians seem to be oblivious to a bell but will respond promptly enough to a vocal warning.  In either case, early and polite use of the warning, followed by observation of those being warned, possibly a further warning, and passing in an appropriately considerate manner including slowing down and even stopping if necessary are to be expected.

 

I believe (not 100% sure about this) that pedal cycles have to be sold with a bell but, per the above, it's not illegal per se to ride one that doesn't have one.  I don't believe the the law says anything about scooters in this regard.

[PhilJ W]

3 hours ago, ejstubbs said:

 

If the young son in question is under the age of legal responsibility (12 in most of the UK, 8 in Scotland IIRC) then nothing can be done about them riding it on the footway anyway.  This is, I think, a more sensible instance in which the police will tend to use reasonable discretion.

 

 

 

The lad is 11 but has a mental age of only 7 or 8. He wouldn't be allowed out on public footpaths or roads on the scooter anyway without supervision. I was asking if such a scooter was regarded the same as a bicycle in the legal sense and it appears that all scooters are. He did ask for an electric scooter but for many reasons apart from the legal ones that was a no-no. When he tried the treadle scooter he was won over completely.

Edited January 18, 2020 by PhilJ W

[rockershovel]

9 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

The lad is 11 but has a mental age of only 7 or 8. He wouldn't be allowed out on public footpaths or roads on the scooter anyway without supervision. I was asking if such a scooter was regarded the same as a bicycle in the legal sense and it appears that all scooters are. He did ask for an electric scooter but for many reasons apart from the legal ones was a no-no. When he tried the treadle scooter he was won over completely.

 

I rather think that the REAL point is that the police have long since abandoned any pretence of taking an interest in such matters. 

 

[boxbrownie]

I believe these electric scooters are not legal for either road or pavement/footpath......well basically anywhere not private ground!

 

Very useful then  

[stewartingram]

I believe there is a minimum wheel size ibvolved somewhere, so for instance electric buggies with small wheels are legal on paths, but above a certain size are (supposed to be )road use only. This may be a rule that applies only to motor powered things?

[stewartingram]

Whilst I was working in London, I sometimes passed along the top edge of Regents Park by London Zoo. I think it might be Prince Alberts Road? Somewhere near the zoo entrance is a side turning, with traffic lights and a crossing, and due to the volume of pedestrians, railing on the path edge. Every time I went down there, there was an ice cream van, hard up against the railings, selling ices to punters on the path. And of course where he was parked was in the middle of the traffic lights and junction!

 

Stewart

[Coldgunner]

Today I experencied something not very new, people who can't use slip roads to build up speed in addition to the pratt who comes to a near stop to 'let them in', forcing 65mph me to change to the overtaking lane. Thankfully it was quiet enough that I could move, but had it not been I'd have to drop anchor pretty sharpish. I wasn't following all that close either, pitch black A1 and a pair of red lights makes judging distances all the more tricky.

[PhilJ W]

25 minutes ago, Coldgunner said:

Today I experencied something not very new, people who can't use slip roads to build up speed in addition to the pratt who comes to a near stop to 'let them in', forcing 65mph me to change to the overtaking lane. Thankfully it was quiet enough that I could move, but had it not been I'd have to drop anchor pretty sharpish. I wasn't following all that close either, pitch black A1 and a pair of red lights makes judging distances all the more tricky.

I've had a similar experience, only I was on the slip road behind the idiot. There was heavy traffic on the road that I was trying to enter and it was fortunate that there was a gap at the right moment. If that gap wasn't there at the right time there would have been an accident.

[JDW]

ADVANCE WARNING!

Today I, in a brief moment of insanity, and led astray from the path which I intended to take (Jaguar XE/XF, Peugeot 508, Volvo S90, Infiniti Q50, VW Passat CC), accidentally bought a BMW 5-series. This is therefore an advance warning, to prevent shock and temporary incapacity, that anyone seeing a BMW with registration starting JD should expect indicators to be used at all times, and in a correct manner. I apologise for any confusion this may cause, I can only ascribe this temporary insanity to the grief following the writing off of my 607... 

[kevinlms]

22 minutes ago, JDW said:

ADVANCE WARNING!

Today I, in a brief moment of insanity, and led astray from the path which I intended to take (Jaguar XE/XF, Peugeot 508, Volvo S90, Infiniti Q50, VW Passat CC), accidentally bought a BMW 5-series. This is therefore an advance warning, to prevent shock and temporary incapacity, that anyone seeing a BMW with registration starting JD should expect indicators to be used at all times, and in a correct manner. I apologise for any confusion this may cause, I can only ascribe this temporary insanity to the grief following the writing off of my 607... 

Don't worry, it won't take long to join the club!

[JDW]

Just now, kevinlms said:

Don't worry, it won't take long to join the club!

...It does have those weird flappy-paddle indicators where the stalk doesn't stay up or down, so who knows what might happen...!

[Phaeton]

12 hours ago, Coldgunner said:

Today I experencied something not very new, people who can't use slip roads to build up speed in addition to the pratt who comes to a near stop to 'let them in', forcing 65mph me to change to the overtaking lane. Thankfully it was quiet enough that I could move, but had it not been I'd have to drop anchor pretty sharpish. I wasn't following all that close either, pitch black A1 and a pair of red lights makes judging distances all the more tricky.

 

But is this not the issue of those coming down the slip road not willing to ease off & join the flow of traffic & expect a gap to mysteriously open up like Moses at the Red sea, I had it the other day when a young woman in a Clio came barrelling down the slip road, there was 3 lines of traffic, nowhere to go, HGV behind me, she ended up driving down the hard shoulder swearing profusely at me along with many fingered gesticulations.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, JDW said:

...It does have those weird flappy-paddle indicators where the stalk doesn't stay up or down, so who knows what might happen...!

 

Years ago I had a Vectra with those.

 

I still have nightmares about it.

[ianwales]

14 hours ago, Coldgunner said:

Today I experencied something not very new, people who can't use slip roads to build up speed in addition to the pratt who comes to a near stop to 'let them in', forcing 65mph me to change to the overtaking lane. Thankfully it was quiet enough that I could move, but had it not been I'd have to drop anchor pretty sharpish. I wasn't following all that close either, pitch black A1 and a pair of red lights makes judging distances all the more tricky.

 

And why is it some people insist on toddling up the outside lane of a slip road at 35mph when the inside lane is clear therby stopping  some people accelerating quicker?

 

Ian

[hayfield]

14 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

I've had a similar experience, only I was on the slip road behind the idiot. There was heavy traffic on the road that I was trying to enter and it was fortunate that there was a gap at the right moment. If that gap wasn't there at the right time there would have been an accident.

 

 

I use the A12 most days, I like to think I am proactive in assisting folk to join from the slip road, what is the best option , change lanes, speed up to create a space or slow down to let them in

 

Conversely what is annoying are those in the outer lane(s) cutting in at the last moment, especially when there is plenty of room behind me, on an A road you are given 1/2 a mile warning, so take action earlier!!!  

[kevinlms]

1 minute ago, hayfield said:

I like to think I am proactive in assisting folk to join from the slip road, what is the best option , change lanes, speed up to create a space or slow down to let them in

Any, all of them or none, depending on the circumstances. Changing lane is probably the best, but if it's full of vehicles, obviously you can't do that.

[Phaeton]

7 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Any, all of them or none, depending on the circumstances. Changing lane is probably the best, but if it's full of vehicles, obviously you can't do that.

 

Agreed but isn't the onus on the person coming down the slip road to be prepared to stop if there isn't a gap rather than barrelling down expecting somebody to make room

[PhilJ W]

59 minutes ago, ianwales said:

 

And why is it some people insist on toddling up the outside lane of a slip road at 35mph when the inside lane is clear therby stopping  some people accelerating quicker?

 

Ian

I allways try to keep to the right on slip roads but I don't dither, this makes it easier for drivers on the road I'm entering to see me and for me to see them, I try to match my speed to the traffic I'm pulling into. I also keep out of the nearside lane if possible when passing a slip road. 

 

14 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

 

 

Conversely what is annoying are those in the outer lane(s) cutting in at the last moment, especially when there is plenty of room behind me, on an A road you are given 1/2 a mile warning, so take action earlier!!!  

Thats one thing that does realy annoy me. Having overtaken me cutting in in front of me forcing me to slow down when there is plenty of room for them to pass clear of me. When I'm overtaking on a motorway or dual carriageway I indicate* that I'm going to pull back in again but I do not pull in until I can see both sides of the car I've just overtaken in my mirror. (*This is for the benefit of the clown sitting on my back bumper at 70mph. Even then some of them attempt to undertake me.)

Edited January 20, 2020 by PhilJ W

[kevinlms]

19 minutes ago, Phaeton said:

 

Agreed but isn't the onus on the person coming down the slip road to be prepared to stop if there isn't a gap rather than barrelling down expecting somebody to make room

True, but teamwork works best. But many will never understand that concept.

[PhilJ W]