Driving standards

[PhilJ W]

100kph is 62mph, 56 is 90kph.

[dvdlcs]

It still irks me that trucks are speed limited compared to other vehicles.

 

Once I lived near Cambridge, and driving the A428 between Cambridge and St Neots (single carriageway, 60mph, enough twists and turns to keep it interesting) could be quite pleasant - until you hit the back of the queue behind a slow moving vehicle, usually a truck. Likewise, overtaking on dual carriageways and essentially blocking them for (seemingly) mile after mile. Not the truckies fault, they have to abide by the rules, but whoever thought that that was a good idea clearly doesn't have to deal with the consequences.

 

Currently living in Australia, where road trains (up to 5 trailers in the country, 2 or 3 in and around the metropolitan areas) are travelling to the same speed limits as me in my car. Seems to work OK there.

 

Rant over...

[Enterprisingwestern]

6 hours ago, dvdlcs said:

It still irks me that trucks are speed limited compared to other vehicles.

 

Once I lived near Cambridge, and driving the A428 between Cambridge and St Neots (single carriageway, 60mph, enough twists and turns to keep it interesting) could be quite pleasant - until you hit the back of the queue behind a slow moving vehicle, usually a truck. Likewise, overtaking on dual carriageways and essentially blocking them for (seemingly) mile after mile. Not the truckies fault, they have to abide by the rules, but whoever thought that that was a good idea clearly doesn't have to deal with the consequences.

 

Currently living in Australia, where road trains (up to 5 trailers in the country, 2 or 3 in and around the metropolitan areas) are travelling to the same speed limits as me in my car. Seems to work OK there.

 

Rant over...

 

You do have a tad more elbow room for such things in Oz though, in congested, cramped UK things happen in close proximity to each other and everybody gets in each others way.

 

Mike.

[Nick C]

7 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

100kph is 62mph, 56 is 90kph.

of course it is...

[rockershovel]

7 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

100kph is 62mph, 56 is 90kph.

 

I don’t doubt your arithmetic. Surely though, the point is that no speed, anywhere in that range, is anywhere near the speed OTHER traffic travels at.. when a motorist is driving along the A14 at 75-80mph, and a truck doing 20mph less swerves into his lane, a cars-length in front of him (as they are fond of doing), to conduct a (possible) overtaking manoeuvre over the next few miles; why, the EXACT speed of that truck, is unlikely to be high on said motorists list of key information. 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by rockershovel

[Billy Flathead]

15 hours ago, peanuts said:

except in scotland where the old limits apply 

Very easy to get caught out when you cross the border, particularly the A1 north of Berwick.

Like you, I run at 53/54mph. Much less stress and why rush when paid hourly.

[stewartingram]

The important thing to remember, is not the speed you can travel at, but the stopping capability you have at that speed.

 

Stewart

[pH]

On 04/01/2020 at 10:49, newbryford said:

They seem to get up to speed reasonably well on my local bypass roads and then hit the limiter.

 

I did say "depending on the situation'. I once got a lift on a heavily-loaded artic on the M5 when it was still two lanes per side. We got into the company of another artic. On the uphills, it crawled slowly past us - the speed difference was about 2mph. Downhill, we zipped past it (out of gear - 70mph+ ), getting up momentum for the next hill. If the driver of the truck I was on had backed off on an uphill to let the other complete the pass more quickly, he would never have been able to regain the speed he had given up before the top of that hill.

Edited January 5, 2020 by pH
Grammar

[PhilJ W]

The speed limiters are not as accurate as they could be. I have driven a couple of minibuses fitted with a limiter, supposedly set at 100kph. One was nowhere near that speed before it kicked in  and the other didn't kick in until nearly 110kph. There are also other factors such as tyre wear that can also affect the speed. Its not unknown for some transport operators to fit a set of worn (but just legal) tyres to a lorry going to have the limiter adjusted then swapping them for a brand new set. The extra centimetre or so of diameter increases the gear ratio and hence the speed of the vehicle. 

[johnofwessex]

18 hours ago, dvdlcs said:

It still irks me that trucks are speed limited compared to other vehicles.

 

................................

 

It still irks me that there is no mandatory speed limiting of all vehicles, and there still wont be post 2023, I cant imagine that it would be impossible to do this to all UK registered vehicles

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, johnofwessex said:

 

It still irks me that there is no mandatory speed limiting of all vehicles, and there still wont be post 2023, I cant imagine that it would be impossible to do this to all UK registered vehicles

 

Cue a ten fold increase in road accidents.

 

Mike.

[caradoc]

Just now, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Cue a ten fold increase in road accidents.

 

Mike.

 

Why would that be ?

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

Just now, caradoc said:

 

Why would that be ?

 

 

To oversimplify, once all vehicles can only go at one maximum speed the scope for advance recognition of hazards is removed, and the human element of the driving experience will switch off the part that requires the extra concentration required to not get into situations where avoidance is necessary.

Imagine most/every car on a motorway going at exactly the same speed.

 

Mike.

[caradoc]

23 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

To oversimplify, once all vehicles can only go at one maximum speed the scope for advance recognition of hazards is removed, and the human element of the driving experience will switch off the part that requires the extra concentration required to not get into situations where avoidance is necessary.

Imagine most/every car on a motorway going at exactly the same speed.

 

Mike.

 

Although as discussed above, not every vehicle on the motorway will be going at the same speed. I have lost count of the number of times I have, after checking nothing was approaching from behind, pulled out to overtake another vehicle, only to also immediately have a car grossly exceeding the speed limit race up behind me.

[Nick C]

Just try driving for any distance in a '50 limit with average cameras' stretch to see why compulsory limiters would be a bad idea - it's a lot harder to concentrate when everyone is doing almost exactly the same speed (and it'll only ever be almost, as discussed the calibration will always be slightly different on each vehicle), limiters would make that worse as they'd encourage the idiots to concentrate less while they do their makeup/read the paper/eat breakfast/etc while their cruise control keeps the car on the limiter...

 

The solution is better enforcement - get more police out there to stop the idiots (and remember there are plenty of people out there who can manage to drive like morons without exceeding the limit...)

[Reorte]

I'd also worry with every vehicle being limited the bad drivers would still attempt the overtakes they shouldn't and be even more likely to get caught out on the wrong side of the road (maybe I'm being selfish but if I've got someone hanging six inches off my bumper I prefer them to get past me and for them to move on and be nowhere near me...)

[caradoc]

So, what we're saying is allow motorists to drive fast, ignoring the 70 mph speed limit, because it keeps them and the unfortunate others sharing the road with them alert ?

[Nick C]

11 minutes ago, caradoc said:

So, what we're saying is allow motorists to drive fast, ignoring the 70 mph speed limit, because it keeps them and the unfortunate others sharing the road with them alert ?

Not at all, we're saying that, in this case, technology isn't the solution.

[boxbrownie]

16 hours ago, stewartingram said:

The important thing to remember, is not the speed you can travel at, but the stopping capability you have at that speed.

 

Stewart

When I first started at Ford R&E we were still developing the Intercontinental truck, a very advanced truck for the day and one of my first jobs was a braking test at Boreham with the Chief engineer of trucks, after several very err shall we say......entertaining runs we had got all the balance and pressures right on the braking system, but the one thing that stuck in my mind was what he said......never get in front of a truck if you can help it, because we just cannot fit enough tyres on a 40 tonne truck to stop the thing, the brakes will work perfectly but they just cannot get the friction on the road, that still hold true today.......they will stop.....but.

 

Having said that the view from the cab does give a considerable advantage in forward warning of incidents.......if your lucky.

[caradoc]

1 hour ago, Nick C said:

Not at all, we're saying that, in this case, technology isn't the solution.

 

I disagree; Not limiting vehicles to 70mph gives anyone the freedom to break the law and speed, whether or not is safe (or rather, less unsafe) and regardless of their ability to drive fast, or of others to appreciate and react to their speed.

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, caradoc said:

So, what we're saying is allow motorists to drive fast, ignoring the 70 mph speed limit, because it keeps them and the unfortunate others sharing the road with them alert ?

 

Welcome to the real world.

It's a maybe unpalatable fact that that sort of driving helps the flow of traffic.

 

Mike.

[bimble]

1 hour ago, caradoc said:

So, what we're saying is allow motorists to drive fast, ignoring the 70 mph speed limit, because it keeps them and the unfortunate others sharing the road with them alert ?

 

In all fairness, setting up permanent average speed cameras on the motorway & A road system would be easier and cheaper than trying to retrofit limiters to the 33 million vehicles on the UK's roads. That would also give people the ability to overtake safely and quickly without hitting a maximum allowed speed halfway through the move.

[StuAllen]

limiting cars to 70mph is focusing on the wrong limit. Which is more dangerous and likely to kill people? -  40mph in a 30mph limit or 80mph in a 70mph limit. 

[caradoc]

16 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Welcome to the real world.

It's a maybe unpalatable fact that that sort of driving helps the flow of traffic.

 

Mike.

 

But does it ? Is it not just as likely to cause the unexplained slowing-downs seen on the motorways, where one vehicle brakes due to going faster than anything else, and other drivers react by braking too, so the traffic flow progressively gets ever slower ?

 

[kevinlms]

2 hours ago, Nick C said:

(and remember there are plenty of people out there who can manage to drive like morons without exceeding the limit...)

This. A vehicle pulling out of a T junction in front of you causing you to T-bone them, is far more dangerous, yet virtually impossible to set up public cameras to record such events, for starters.