Driving standards

[Hobby]

Was amused yesterday on the antics of people when driving in the 50 limits roadworks, it's obvious that a fair percentage of drivers don't understand the principle of "average" speed cameras, slowing down (by braking!) every time you come to one then speeding up again to over 60 ain't going to save you!

[Baby Deltic]

4 hours ago, stewartingram said:

Like I said, you drive to the conditions, always. If you can't for definite see what is ahead, you slow down. Last word on the subject from me.

 

Stewart

 

That's right! If the road sign says 60mph then go for it!

[TheQ]

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/pulham-st-mary-driver-has-car-seized-1-5996497

 

 

[kevinlms]

5 hours ago, stewartingram said:

Like I said, you drive to the conditions, always. If you can't for definite see what is ahead, you slow down. Last word on the subject from me.

 

Stewart

You can still get caught by the unexpected. Nearly came of the road once, where I could see the road continuing straight in the distance. I came over the slight summit and there was a hard right, with the road curving down to a pair of T junctions.

 

The right turn was totally unmarked. Not sure if an earlier driver had taken out the warning signage, but fortunately I was travelling a little under the speed limit.

[TheQ]

I drove into someones  driveway in the fog, the road did a ninety right imediately before it.. My speed.... about 10MPH. it was that foggy..

[Hobby]

16 minutes ago, TheQ said:

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/pulham-st-mary-driver-has-car-seized-1-5996497

 

Tip of the iceberg!

[rockershovel]

Well that all got rather metaphysical! 

 

I know more than anyone could reasonably wish about the terminology or risk, hazard and the rest of it, and don’t propose to discuss it. 

 

Nonetheless the fact stands that Lincs has the worst accident figures in the land, and much of that us due to local conditions. I’ve driven far too many miles, for far too many years, in every corner of these sceptr’d isles and the Fens give me the creeps every time. I honestly can’t think of any other area where you can routinely see cars screaming into blind bends, whilst overtaking convoys of three to five HGV, nose to tail on two-lane roads with no verges ..

 

[PhilJ W]

4 hours ago, TheQ said:

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/pulham-st-mary-driver-has-car-seized-1-5996497

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

Tip of the iceberg!

The cars weren't seized because the drivers were using mobile phones but because they were uninsured.

[Reorte]

3 hours ago, rockershovel said:

Nonetheless the fact stands that Lincs has the worst accident figures in the land, and much of that us due to local conditions. I’ve driven far too many miles, for far too many years, in every corner of these sceptr’d isles and the Fens give me the creeps every time. I honestly can’t think of any other area where you can routinely see cars screaming into blind bends, whilst overtaking convoys of three to five HGV, nose to tail on two-lane roads with no verges ..

 

Sounds like the local conditions you're describing are the people there rather than the roads themselves.

[jollysmart]

On 12/04/2019 at 19:44, rockershovel said:

 

I take your point, but I’d forgotten how downright dangerous fenland roads are - and the roads where they rise onto the Wold and the chalk uplands are no better. They are sufficient for their primary purpose, of providing access for the heavy, slow-moving agricultural plant and lorries which are the economic drivers of the area. 

 

The problem now is that most people drive cars which have performance which twenty years ago was only found in a minority of expensive upmarket sporting cars, and are accustomed to driving at motorway speeds, and appear to think they can do so wherever they go. Large numbers of people make frequent journeys for work, far in excess of distances which were usual fifteen or twenty years ago. There are very large numbers of tourists at certain times of year, and sizeable populations of migrant workers from countries where driving standards are, shall we say, more a matter of opinion than fact. 

 

There’s also the not-so-small matter of the place itself. If you leave the road in Lincolnshire, you can be in big trouble very quickly. Deep, wide dykes border long stretches of road. Many roads, even quite new ones, have little or nothing in the way of verges, let alone hard shoulders, and the general absence of topography coupled with winding road layouts means that even quite minor obstructions cause serious blind spots. Dense mist hangs in the air most mornings, at some times of year; localised micro-climates produces sudden patches of wet surfaces or even unthawed frost. Strong  winds arrive, largely unobstructed from Scandinavia and the Baltic. 

 

You’d need a copper on every junction to make any difference.

 

 

 

 

When you go off the roads into the dykes the car often rolls into the dyke landing upside down, the banks of the dyke prevents the doors being opened and the water fills the car and this often ends up with a drowning unless there is outside assistance able to gain entry. Often the vehicles crashed on remote roads are not discovered for hours.

 

I commuted for 30 years on the A15 and A46 roads from the Humber bank to Lincoln and there was not a week when there wasn't an accident, frequently several, often with HGV's in the fields some times a long way from he carriageway. Cars overtaking where they shouldn't and the HGV's having to take avoiding action to miss the car on their side of the road meaning the  HGV goes onto the soft verge and then rolls onto its side. 

 

My understanding is that the A46 and A15 are the most dangerous roads in Lincolnshire, with the A46 having a TV programme about the accidents on it. The best times to drive these roads are school holidays, petrol shortages and following the 2008 recession when traffic levels were significantly reduced. Very glad I don't have to use them every day now.

[Baby Deltic]

A lot of the roads in Lincolnshire are dangerous. The A15, A16, A17, A52 and A153 in particular.

[rockershovel]

HGV also suffer from wind conditions. Put one wheel on the soft, narrow verge and that’s all she wrote.. the HGV are also doing immense damage to the frequently weak formations of these roads. The A16 Spalding bypass was constructed on an old railway formation for part of its length, as the only local ground capable of taking the load and high enough to be above water level year round.... hence it’s dangerously narrow cross-section. 

 

 

[JDW]

Just gonna leave this here...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-scotland-47942016/road-runner-emu-filmed-sprinting-along-a82

 

(Or should it be in the "Prototype for everything" thread?

[Baby Deltic]

3 hours ago, JDW said:

Just gonna leave this here...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-scotland-47942016/road-runner-emu-filmed-sprinting-along-a82

 

(Or should it be in the "Prototype for everything" thread?

 

He's really gone off the rails and started running amok since Rod Hull died.

[Coldgunner]

Been driving 4 years, which is nothing compared to some of the others here I'm sure. But I've grown to love long distance night drives. Its so much more peaceful and less stressful than any other time of day its amazing. Can't really add much more to the conversation apart from what has already been said, but the one thing that concerns me is van drivers. I've seen good and bad drivers but the bad ones speeding seem to be the ones heavily loaded. When they tailgate me, I don't think they quite understand how the cement mixer and portable generator on their flatbed is going to affect their brake distance.

[chriswright03]

17 hours ago, rockershovel said:

Well that all got rather metaphysical! 

 

I know more than anyone could reasonably wish about the terminology or risk, hazard and the rest of it, and don’t propose to discuss it. 

 

Nonetheless the fact stands that Lincs has the worst accident figures in the land, and much of that us due to local conditions. I’ve driven far too many miles, for far too many years, in every corner of these sceptr’d isles and the Fens give me the creeps every time. I honestly can’t think of any other area where you can routinely see cars screaming into blind bends, whilst overtaking convoys of three to five HGV, nose to tail on two-lane roads with no verges ..

 

Come on admit it you just don't like Lincolnshire.  Is it because we like to give people High Sixes instead of High Fives?

 

Mention of the A15 as being dangerous between Lincoln and Brigg is in part due to the undulations in the road (don't forget Lincolnshire is flat)!  These undulations can and do hide even large vehicles.  Hence people overtake because they can see nothing coming and then lo and behold hidden in the dip is some poor sod coming the other way.  Those hidden dips are protected by solid white lines to warn the motorist not to overtake yet they still do often to their or the other poor sod's peril.

 

I don't for for a minute doubt your knowledge and expertise in Health and Safety Rocker but it is simply not possible to change the topography of every road in the land let alone the Fens to cater for those who take it upon themselves to ignore signs, speed limits and training and risk life.  Never mind about a Police Officer on every corner you would need a lot of bubble wrap or cotton wool to protect everyone.  Accidents will always happen but they are more often than not due to someone doing something that is stupid.  If you can find a way of changing that you will be a very rich man.

 

Just for the record I retired from Lincolnshire Police well over 20 years ago and have no connection with the Force whatsoever.  When I was on Traffic as it was called in my days even longer ago each division (and there were four) put out four Traffic cars per shift at least three of which would be 24 hour cover.  They were supplemented by at least four motorcycles in each Division as well.  Lincs at that time was well known to HGV drivers who would know full well the risk of getting caught if they were speeding or over their hours. Other motorists would see the Patrol cars on a very regular basis and be aware of the presence.  These days the Roads Policing Unit is shared with other forces and is based in the very South of the County well away from the rest.  I cannot recall the last time I saw a Patrol car in the East of the County.  If you did see one it could just as easily be from one of the other forces who share the partnership and therefore those officers would have little, if any local knowledge about the roads, where they go and what are the risks on them.  They would also have no knowledge of the locals known to be disqualified or driving without documents.  Various Governments have reduced the strength of manpower to such an extent that the Police are virtually working like the Fire Service now i.e. emergencies only.  Not wanting to enter into Politics I think that is best left as it is without a discussion but "I know more than anyone could reasonably wish about the terminology or risk, hazard and the rest of it, and don’t propose to discuss it. 

[Hobby]

I suspect the cost of a traffic car has changed somewhat since then as well, the amount of electronics they seem to have in them these days (based on what we see in those TV docs) must make them damned expensive things, not to mention the initial cost of the car... I don't understand why ours don't have those "rubber" over-riders they seem to have in NZ (and USA?), seems a sensible idea?

[TheQ]

1 hour ago, Coldgunner said:

Been driving 4 years, which is nothing compared to some of the others here I'm sure. But I've grown to love long distance night drives. Its so much more peaceful and less stressful than any other time of day its amazing. Can't really add much more to the conversation apart from what has already been said, but the one thing that concerns me is van drivers. I've seen good and bad drivers but the bad ones speeding seem to be the ones heavily loaded. When they tailgate me, I don't think they quite understand how the cement mixer and portable generator on their flatbed is going to affect their brake distance.

it's the genny or mixer on it's own two wheels being towed, dancing from one wheel to the other that worries me..

[Coldgunner]

While the trailer has no plates too, or as I've seen the bike rack obscuring the numberplate and lights.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Coldgunner

[rockershovel]

The dips in the road screening oncoming vehicles are a whole ‘nother Fenland thing!  I didn’t mention them because they are difficult to describe if you aren’t familiar with them. The virtual absence of topography out there can be very deceptive, it’s like the blind bends screened by nothing more than a couple of bushes, or the abrupt turns for no geographical reason, or the way lights of other vehicles can be seen for huge distances, or not at all! 

 

The HGV are a menace, though. It’s the way they bunch up, nose to tail, often two or three together - I saw a convoy of seven near Spalding last week. They WILL NOT allow other vehicles to drop in between, they WILL NOT pull aside to allow tailbacks to clear and  the frequent LHD ones probably have no idea they are being followed or overtaken. 

 

I don’t have a thing particular against the Fens, my good wife and all three of her grandparents come from that way, but driving out there give me the heebie-jeebies..

Edited April 16, 2019 by rockershovel

[rockershovel]

Re policing Lincolnshire, one very real problem with HGV is the number which are neither local nor regular, don’t know the roads or the police, and aren’t known in return. It’s quite usual to see artics displaying two or even three different registration plates, none from the U.K. Cambs police are well acquainted with the problem of drivers of such vehicles making no real attempt to comply with Road Traffic Act or driving hours - in a recent accident involving such a vehicle near Peterborough, the driver was found to have been driving for at least 36 hours with his only breaks being the TML Ferry...

 

 

[Reorte]

2 hours ago, Coldgunner said:

Been driving 4 years, which is nothing compared to some of the others here I'm sure. But I've grown to love long distance night drives. Its so much more peaceful and less stressful than any other time of day its amazing. Can't really add much more to the conversation apart from what has already been said, but the one thing that concerns me is van drivers. I've seen good and bad drivers but the bad ones speeding seem to be the ones heavily loaded. When they tailgate me, I don't think they quite understand how the cement mixer and portable generator on their flatbed is going to affect their brake distance.

 

For long distance drives (and where it's reasonably possible) I find it far more pleasant to avoid the main roads and motorways as much as possible. It might take a fair bit longer but it doesn't seem to matter.

[Coldgunner]

Oh definitely, heading from Quorn back to Peterborough after a gala can be quite nice, nice and windy roads for a bit of fun. I'll be heading up to Doncaster in a few weeks and I'll pop an audiobook on. Though this is during the day so won't be cruise-control quiet!

[chriswright03]

2 hours ago, rockershovel said:

The dips in the road screening oncoming vehicles are a whole ‘nother Fenland thing!  I didn’t mention them because they are difficult to describe if you aren’t familiar with them. The virtual absence of topography out there can be very deceptive, it’s like the blind bends screened by nothing more than a couple of bushes, or the abrupt turns for no geographical reason, or the way lights of other vehicles can be seen for huge distances, or not at all! 

 

The HGV are a menace, though. It’s the way they bunch up, nose to tail, often two or three together - I saw a convoy of seven near Spalding last week. They WILL NOT allow other vehicles to drop in between, they WILL NOT pull aside to allow tailbacks to clear and  the frequent LHD ones probably have no idea they are being followed or overtaken. 

 

I don’t have a thing particular against the Fens, my good wife and all three of her grandparents come from that way, but driving out there give me the heebie-jeebies..

Yes but they didn't used to do that when there was a visible Police presence on the roads.  Admittedly there were fewer foreign drivers in my day but we did have them.  Stopping motorists when they are seen to do something that is stupid/dangerous/illegal or all three whether it be to give advice or to prosecute the word gets around and the habits change.  If you know there is a good chance of getting caught doing anything you are not so keen to do it whereas if there is no chance then it is open season.

 

I spent the majority of my service in plain clothes but even then many of my prisoners came from routine stops by Traffic officers of motorists that were seen to be doing something worthy of a word in the ear.  These days if you see a Police car at all the chances are the occupants are on their way to or from a job.  They seldom have time to stop anyone and the section of public that benefit from that are the ones who have no intention of sticking to any laws if they can get away with it.

 

You may be able to tell this is a subject that I feel strongly about.  There are no officers out there doing the basics these days and that just means that laws are broken on a daily basis by many more than used to be and I cannot see it getting any better.   I can only say that as much as I find the situation a disgrace I am delighted I am no longer having to do what was a difficult job in my day when I had one hand tied behind my back.   Now they have both hands tied behind their backs with their legs tied together and a huge target on their back.

[Hobby]

2 hours ago, Reorte said:

 

For long distance drives (and where it's reasonably possible) I find it far more pleasant to avoid the main roads and motorways as much as possible. It might take a fair bit longer but it doesn't seem to matter.

 

That's where adaptive cruise control comes into its own, it's far easier now for our drives to Scotland and across Germany than it used to be...