Driving standards

[polybear]

If lane 1 is empty then why are you in lane 2?

 

Rule 264 of the Highway Code states:

“You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slow-moving vehicles, you should return to the left-hand lane as soon as you are safely past.”

 

I didn't mention lane 1 being empty.  It's easy to be overtaking slower vehicles in lane 1 (trucks etc) that are often doing 10 - 20mph slower than the 70 limit; pulling in to a gap maybe a hundred or so yards long (as Mr. Speeder insists you should) just results in having to drop your speed right down or smash into the back of a truck.  I've had clowns in a hurry then suddenly drop their overtaking speed right down cos' they think it's funny to block you in and force you to drop your speed right down.  As a consequence I've learnt to stay put in lane 2 until such time as there is a decent enough gap in lane 1; however I'm always doing the limit if traffic allows etc.  If Mr Speeder wants to bomb about then turning the steering wheel a few degrees to get into lane 3 shouldn't tax them too much; they may even get adventurous and use the indicators too (though owners of certain marques of car may struggle with that....).

My point is:  Why is the guy in lane 2 wrong, yet the guy doing 80 is squeaky clean?

[polybear]

I'm frequently amazed by drivers who will sit right on your back bumper whlie you are passing traffic in lane one, but won't use the empty lane 3 to go past.

 

I've worked in Kuwait a few times; out there a 4x4 (often a big yank) make Range Rovers look like Mini's.  The limit out there is 75 (give or take) and it's a daily occurrence that they'll sit (literally) about 24" off your back bumper, even though you're on the limit.  Not keen on that, strangely

One fine day my Boss noted a woman driving along with a baby on her lap.  She was texting at the time...

[stewartingram]

One idiot this evening on the A13. I was driving east approaching the Pitsea flyover having pulled out to the outside lane to avoid the queue of cars that usually forms there in the rush hour. A lorry in the nearside lane indicated that he wanted to pull into the outside lane (due to said queue). So I flashed my headlights to allow the lorry to pull out. As he did so this idiot in a Fiesta sped up alongside me only to have to brake sharply to avoid hitting the queue of cars.

 

But a flash of the headlights is NOT a signal to permit the lorry to pull out. In fact, it is just the opposite. Like a horn, it is a signal to show your presence in case the other driver has not seen you.

 

Stewart

[PhilJ W]

But a flash of the headlights is NOT a signal to permit the lorry to pull out. In fact, it is just the opposite. Like a horn, it is a signal to show your presence in case the other driver has not seen you.

 

Stewart

I am aware of that but it is accepted use and practice, so much so as to make the original meaning misunderstood.

[Titan]

But a flash of the headlights is NOT a signal to permit the lorry to pull out. In fact, it is just the opposite. Like a horn, it is a signal to show your presence in case the other driver has not seen you.

 

Stewart

 

 

I am aware of that but it is accepted use and practice, so much so as to make the original meaning misunderstood.

 

Indeed some unscrupulous fraudsters use the "correct" use of the headlamp flash to deliberately cause a crash, so that on paper they are not at fault, and can claim whiplash for all five occupants of the car.

 

it has got to the point where the "correct" use of the headlamp flash is far more likely to cause a crash than not using it at all, something the advocates of "doing it by the book" should bear in mind before getting on their high horse...

[avonside1563]

I didn't mention lane 1 being empty.  It's easy to be overtaking slower vehicles in lane 1 (trucks etc) that are often doing 10 - 20mph slower than the 70 limit; pulling in to a gap maybe a hundred or so yards long (as Mr. Speeder insists you should) just results in having to drop your speed right down or smash into the back of a truck.  I've had clowns in a hurry then suddenly drop their overtaking speed right down cos' they think it's funny to block you in and force you to drop your speed right down.  As a consequence I've learnt to stay put in lane 2 until such time as there is a decent enough gap in lane 1; however I'm always doing the limit if traffic allows etc.  If Mr Speeder wants to bomb about then turning the steering wheel a few degrees to get into lane 3 shouldn't tax them too much; they may even get adventurous and use the indicators too (though owners of certain marques of car may struggle with that....).

My point is:  Why is the guy in lane 2 wrong, yet the guy doing 80 is squeaky clean?

My mistake, I took your original post as implying that lane 1 was empty as you didn't say you were overtaking. But I agree with you on the point that people are strange, I have had people happily following me in lane 2 whilst lane 3 was empty only to speed up as soon as I move over and look at me as if I was holding them up. We become a very strange breed when we get behind the wheel.

 

Last saturday evening on the M5 I had someone come tearing up behind me at some ridiculous speed in lane 3 whilst I was in the process of overtaking a car in lane 2, not content that I was going faster than the car in lane 2 (at the posted speed limit of course!) he proceeded to flash me and then both driver and passenger gave a non-complimentary gesture once I had completed the overtake and moved back to let them past.

 

I do think part of the problem is the level of traffic means it is often perceived as safer to remain in the lane you are in than move over, and some driving agencies actaully recommend avoiding excessive lane changing in heavier traffic. I think that there should be a 2 part driving test with the second part dealing with motorway driving.

[boxbrownie]

Headlamp flashing........can be a warning (long continuous flash) or a polite gesture (one or two quick flashes), it is custom and practice regardless of the Highway Code.

 

Everybody knows which is which, same as long strident horn blasting or a quick bip to say thank you.

[caradoc]

I think that there should be a 2 part driving test with the second part dealing with motorway driving.

 

That's a valid point; I found it strange after passing my test back in 1989 that I could go from never having driven alone, or on a motorway, to immediately doing both those things. However a problem would arise in those areas a long way from the nearest motorway.

 

The sheer impatience of so many motorists amazes and worries me; Just on Monday evening, on the way home, in the dark, along a 30mph road with houses and side roads, a car was right behind me and as soon as we got to a straight stretch they put their foot down and flew past me. Where are they going that needs such desperation ? 

 

Personally I am glad that having retired I no longer have to drive most days.

Edited November 15, 2018 by caradoc

[TheQ]

The problem being large areas of the country have no Motorways, and I've lived in many of them. The Hebridies, Inverness, Northumberland, Norfolk, (Wiltshire when I lived there).

Equally  in all those places we have single track roads, and from the behaviour of the summer tourists many don't know how to drive on them either..

[Reorte]

Headlamp flashes are arguably another form of language, shaped by usage rather than definition.

 

That said perhaps to some the headlamp flash to mean "I'm letting you move" is the equivalent of saying "train station".

[Enterprisingwestern]

they put their foot down and flew past me. Where are they going that needs such desperation ?

 

Home from the pub?

 

Mike.

[dvdlcs]

Driving to work this morning:

 

Two lane road, I'm in the left lane. Sparse traffic in the right lane.

 

Up ahead, a bus in a layby signals right and starts to move out. Seeing this I signal right with the intention of moving into the right lane.

 

At this point a Toyota Prado in the right lane accelerates hard and closes the gap that I was intending to move into. I have no choice but to hit the brakes reasonably hard to not merge with the rear of the bus. Fortunately there was nobody behind me in lane 1.

 

 

Driving home this evening:

 

First set of traffic lights on the way home. Single lane, I'm number three in line.

 

Light turns green, first car takes off. Second car doesn't move. After a moment I flash my lights at them (I don't like using the horn in these situations - seems more likely to provoke 'rage'). Still nothing. Eventually looks forward after the lights have returned to red - she has missed an entire cycle. Moves up to the red light.

 

[i know it is a she because she drove past me before I turned out of a side road and followed her down to the lights.]

 

Light turns green a second time. No movement from the car in front. Again I flash the lights after a moment of inactivity. This time she looks forward shortly before the lights turned red for a second time. This time both of us passed through the lights. At this point I had decided that as we were turning on to a two lane road I was going to take the other lane and pass her. She can do whatever it is that she is doing *behind me*. I had a home to go to.

 

FFS.

 

Hopefully I've had my weekly quota today and there isn't more waiting for me tomorrow.

[kevinlms]

Driving to work this morning:

 

Two lane road, I'm in the left lane. Sparse traffic in the right lane.

 

Up ahead, a bus in a layby signals right and starts to move out. Seeing this I signal right with the intention of moving into the right lane.

 

At this point a Toyota Prado in the right lane accelerates hard and closes the gap that I was intending to move into. I have no choice but to hit the brakes reasonably hard to not merge with the rear of the bus. Fortunately there was nobody behind me in lane 1.

 

 

Driving home this evening:

 

First set of traffic lights on the way home. Single lane, I'm number three in line.

 

Light turns green, first car takes off. Second car doesn't move. After a moment I flash my lights at them (I don't like using the horn in these situations - seems more likely to provoke 'rage'). Still nothing. Eventually looks forward after the lights have returned to red - she has missed an entire cycle. Moves up to the red light.

 

[i know it is a she because she drove past me before I turned out of a side road and followed her down to the lights.]

 

Light turns green a second time. No movement from the car in front. Again I flash the lights after a moment of inactivity. This time she looks forward shortly before the lights turned red for a second time. This time both of us passed through the lights. At this point I had decided that as we were turning on to a two lane road I was going to take the other lane and pass her. She can do whatever it is that she is doing *behind me*. I had a home to go to.

 

FFS.

 

Hopefully I've had my weekly quota today and there isn't more waiting for me tomorrow.

Probably more important things to do, like check her phone/make up!

[jonny777]

It always amuses me that when you're doing 70 in lane 2, someone comes bombing up behind you and proceeds to get mightily p1ssed that you won't get out of their way.  However, they won't overtake using (the empty) lane 3 and the fact that they want to (continue) speeding doesn't put them in the wrong, oh no..... 

 

 

I'm frequently amazed by drivers who will sit right on your back bumper whlie you are passing traffic in lane one, but won't use the empty lane 3 to go past.

 

 

 

I find this happens all the time these days. I believe there are lazy motorway drivers who can't be bothered to change lanes and just travel their entire journey in lane 2 but speeding up and slowing down depending on the speed of the vehicle in front. 

 

I presume it saves having to do such 'tedious' things as checking rear view mirrors, indicating and moving steering wheel; so they don't bother. What really annoys me is when I am in lane 1 approaching an HGV but the middle lane brain-dead has just overtaken me when the HGV pulls out to overtake another lorry. Even with long gaps in lane 3, the brain-dead will not overtake the lorries, but just hits the brakes and slows down to 56mph (or thereabouts) causing me to be stuck in lane 1 for many miles, while a queue of other brain-deads forms in lane 2 and the lorries take 5 minutes to overtake.

 

Fortunately, I am a patient type and have seen it all many times before; so I just chug along in lane 1 until all the weirdos have finally vanished up the road and I can get by the lorries. The alternative, which I have occasionally in the past, is to see this situation approaching and move out in stages to lane 3 and overtake the lot - but this can be even more annoying if I time it all wrong and the lane 2 HGV finished overtaking the lane 1 vehicle just as I am overtaking them all in lane 3; because as soon as the first lorry moves out of lane 2, the brain-deads following it all speed up to 80mph and I am left in the fast lane looking stupid, and with a nutter in an Audi/Mercedes/BMW fast approaching from behind. 

 

It is for this reason that I can't be bothered any more. 

[ejstubbs]

I am aware of that but it is accepted use and practice, so much so as to make the original meaning misunderstood.

 

Not everywhere.  Try interpreting a headlamp flash as "after you" in Italy and you'll likely find yourself on the wrong end of an insurance claim.

 

The point about not flashing, waving, or giving any other such signals to other road users is that you very likely do not have an adequate appreciation as to whether it is actually safe for them to proceed.  The classic example being the driver who flashes another to turn right across them, unaware that another vehicle is passing them on their left.  Yes, it's up to the person being flashed to make that call, but it's surprising how often people seem to get agitated if you don't go when flashed at.

 

I don't flash people to go, and I rarely 'obey' other people's flashes.  I leave more than adequate space to let waiting vehicles in to queues and such like but if they don't want to take the opportunity, or don't notice it, or think I might just be busy on my mobile (I won't be) and will suddenly close the gap when I notice what's going on, that's up to them.

 

I don't regard it as a courtesy to effectively pester people to accept my giving way to them.

 

Headlamp flashing........can be a warning (long continuous flash) or a polite gesture (one or two quick flashes), it is custom and practice regardless of the Highway Code.

 

Doing 80mph on motorways is "custom and practice" but that argument won't get you very far in court.

Edited November 15, 2018 by ejstubbs

[Nick C]

I didn't mention lane 1 being empty.  It's easy to be overtaking slower vehicles in lane 1 (trucks etc) that are often doing 10 - 20mph slower than the 70 limit; 

 

That's exactly what I had on Sunday - steady stream of slower (60ish indicated) traffic in lane 1, with only the occasional gap big enough to move back into, I was doing 70 (admittedly 70 on the speedometer, so probably about 65 actual) and had several people come flying up behind me, sit far too close until I reached a gap and moved back in, then accelerate off, only to do the same again to the next car a couple of hundred meters ahead - when in almost every case lane 3 was clear and they could have easily passed me without having to change their speed at all. But as has been mentioned, they would have had to think and use their mirrors...

 

The sheer impatience of so many motorists amazes and worries me; Just on Monday evening, on the way home, in the dark, along a 30mph road with houses and side roads, a car was right behind me and as soon as we got to a straight stretch they put their foot down and flew past me. Where are they going that needs such desperation ? 

 

That's unusual. I find they usually come right up behind me being all impatient, then I reach the end of the village/speed limit, accelerate back up to road speed (most of the country A/B roads round here it's quite safe to do NSL), and find they've dropped a long way back - only to catch me up again when I slow down for the next speed limit in the next village...

Edited November 15, 2018 by Nick C

[avonside1563]

That's unusual. I find they usually come right up behind me being all impatient, then I reach the end of the village/speed limit, accelerate back up to road speed (most of the country A/B roads round here it's quite safe to do NSL), and find they've dropped a long way back - only to catch me up again when I slow down for the next speed limit in the next village...

 

Ah the good old 'I go everywhere at 40mph no matter what the speed limit is so that my average speed works out' How many times have I come up behind someone doing 40mph along a road fit for the national speed limit ony to find they disappear in front of me when we reach a 30mph!

 

[PatB]

Driving to work this morning:

 

Two lane road, I'm in the left lane. Sparse traffic in the right lane.

 

Up ahead, a bus in a layby signals right and starts to move out. Seeing this I signal right with the intention of moving into the right lane.

 

At this point a Toyota Prado in the right lane accelerates hard and closes the gap that I was intending to move into. I have no choice but to hit the brakes reasonably hard to not merge with the rear of the bus. Fortunately there was nobody behind me in lane 1.

 

 

This is pretty standard behaviour here in WA. To the extent that I will often seriously consider not indicating for a lane change if I judge that I can complete the manoeuvre without conflict.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I saw the most bizarre performance this morning from a 'white van' driver stuck in a side street made single lane by the usual solid line of parked cars (the same cars too every weekday) because there were three cars coming in the opposite direction, from which it is inadvisable to reverse because of a blind corner. As I walked toward him I could see he patently had no ability to reverse himself, continually overcorrecting; so he then elected to get off the road onto the grass verge, but mounted the kerb with such brio that he then slid down the small grassy slope into the hedge, from which he could not move.

 

I checked he was OK, and at least he had his mobile phone and a signal so was able to tell his employer's office where he had 'delivered' the van to. Do I believe he had ever passed anything like a real test in Ruritania?

... I think that there should be a 2 part driving test with the second part dealing with motorway driving.

To which add driving in the dark, driving in a downpour, driving when snow and ice are on the road surface. It's always in my mind at this time of year that quite probably anything up to 5% of the drivers on the road are not only relatively new to driving, but many will not have had to drive in the 'difficult' conditions particularly applicable to winter.

 

My wife's experience is a case in point. She took lessons and passed her test over a particularly fine summer in Aberystwyth, where she was studying. As such she felt confident of a thorough grounding in the art of the hill start and watching out for stray livestock on unfenced roads, but had not at any time exceeded 30mph or ever been on the road in less than ideal visibility. (Happily her dad then had her drive him about during the summer vacation to build some fast road, longer distance and night driving experience.)

[Guest]

To which add driving in the dark, driving in a downpour, driving when snow and ice are on the road surface. It's always in my mind at this time of year that quite probably anything up to 5% of the drivers on the road are not only relatively new to driving, but many will not have had to drive in the 'difficult' conditions particularly applicable to winter.

I'm sure that in at least one of those Nordic countries where rally drivers come from you can't get your full licence until you've done some sort of winter driving test.

[stewartingram]

I am aware of that but it is accepted use and practice, so much so as to make the original meaning misunderstood.

Not by those who keep to the law. Those that don't confuse others.

[stewartingram]

Not everywhere.  Try interpreting a headlamp flash as "after you" in Italy and you'll likely find yourself on the wrong end of an insurance claim.

 

The point about not flashing, waving, or giving any other such signals to other road users is that you very likely do not have an adequate appreciation as to whether it is actually safe for them to proceed.  The classic example being the driver who flashes another to turn right across them, unaware that another vehicle is passing them on their left.  Yes, it's up to the person being flashed to make that call, but it's surprising how often people seem to get agitated if you don't go when flashed at.

 

I don't flash people to go, and I rarely 'obey' other people's flashes.  I leave more than adequate space to let waiting vehicles in to queues and such like but if they don't want to take the opportunity, or don't notice it, or think I might just be busy on my mobile (I won't be) and will suddenly close the gap when I notice what's going on, that's up to them.

 

I don't regard it as a courtesy to effectively pester people to accept my giving way to them.

 

 

Doing 80mph on motorways is "custom and practice" but that argument won't get you very far in court.

And of course the only person that can give you a "right of way" signal is a Police Officer Take notice of a flash have an accident - it is your fault.

[Reorte]

Not by those who keep to the law. Those that don't confuse others.

I don't think it is law. Yes, it's in the Highway Code but that's essentially a guide to best practice, not a legal document. When it's talking about legal requirements it uses the word must, which isn't used when talking about flashing headlights (rule 110). The online version (and I admit I've not seen a paper copy for ages) also has links to the relevant legislation where appropriate, and there isn't a link for rule 110.

 

As a complete aside, looking on from that I saw in rule 113 "You must ...use headlights at night, except on a road which has lit street lighting," which suggests lights aren't actually required on lit roads, which rather surprises me. Not having them on at night certainly sounds like a bad idea whether or not the road's lit. It goes on to say you should also use them on such roads at night, but only with a should, not a must.

[Titan]

And of course the only person that can give you a "right of way" signal is a Police Officer Take notice of a flash have an accident - it is your fault.

 

Not specifically aimed at Stewart but...

 

So when you are approaching a joining road at a reasonable speed on a 60mph road and you are concerned that the person waiting to join has not seen you as he is edging forwards. You flash your lights to tell him you are there and he pulls out in front of you. You try to avoid him but clip him and collide with the oncoming traffic. You and the totally innocent driver coming the other way die, whilst the man at fault walks away unscathed. But hey that does not matter, and you will die content knowing you were using your lights correctly and it was not your fault...

Edited November 15, 2018 by Titan

[rockershovel]

I wouldn’t take ANYTHING AT ALL as meaning “after you” when driving in Italy.