Driving standards

[PhilJ W]

I am also frequent user of the A127, I usually move into the outside lane as I approach junctions on that road and a few others as well.

[raymw]

They probably thought along the lines that you weren't going fast enough, thought they could accelerate and get in front of you, there being plenty enough room behind you, for you to slow down, if you had to. Maybe they estimated your speed wrong, not concentrating wrt chatting to each other/children, whatever. Maybe, since you thought they'd get in behind you, you slightly increased your speed, perhaps they ran out of slip road, and couldn't get up to the speed needed to safely get past you, and had to brake sharply to be able to get in behind you. I'm guessing, but if it had been a truck, you'd have seen it accelerating to get in front of you, and you would have given way. It is easier for a vehicle to accelerate down a ramp, than to brake, and you have to always allow for others who do not view the situation the same way as yourself, for various reasons. It would be interesting to know which vehicle you were driving, and theirs, such is my preconceived ideas wrt young 'ladies' driving standards being related to the cars they drive.

Edited November 13, 2018 by raymw

[kevinlms]

Fair enough when there are gaps in the traffic on the main carriageway but if the flow is continuous how do those on the slip road safely enter the main road ? There is a junction near Oxford (at Botley onto the Western bypass heading north) that I simply do not use any more because the slip road is so short and the main carriageway is often nose-to-tail traffic.

These are going up all around Australian busy freeways. They do work well, most of the time. The bus lanes are usually for trucks as well.

 

[ejstubbs]

Joining traffic is crossing a line (I'd need to go back to the Highway Code to remind myself the precise legal definition of the lines at the end of a sliproad though, sadly - are they give way?).

 

Those broken white lines don't seem to fit within any of the categories laid down in rules 127-132.  However, the guidance for joining a motorway is pretty clear:

 

Rule 259

 

You should

• give priority to traffic already on the motorway
• check the traffic on the motorway and match your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/motorways-253-to-273

Edited November 13, 2018 by ejstubbs

[jjb1970]

Annoying to drive past a Police car parked facing traffic with main headlights (not side lights) left on this morning, it doesn't really set much of an example for others when the Police do stuff like that.

[TheQ]

Annoying to drive past a Police car parked facing traffic with main headlights (not side lights) left on this morning, it doesn't really set much of an example for others when the Police do stuff like that.

Nick them under rule 239...

Use off-street parking areas, or bays marked out with white lines on the road as parking places, wherever possible. If you have to stop on the roadside

•do not park facing against the traffic flow

•stop as close as you can to the side

•do not stop too close to a vehicle displaying a Blue Badge: remember, the occupant may need more room to get in or out

•you MUST switch off the engine, headlights and fog lights

•you MUST apply the handbrake before leaving the vehicle

•you MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door. Check for cyclists or other traffic

•it is safer for your passengers (especially children) to get out of the vehicle on the side next to the kerb

•put all valuables out of sight and make sure your vehicle is secure

•lock your vehicle.

Laws CUR reg 98, 105 & 107, RVLR reg 27 & RTA 1988 sect 42

Edited November 13, 2018 by TheQ

[mezzoman253]

They probably thought along the lines that you weren't going fast enough, thought they could accelerate and get in front of you, there being plenty enough room behind you, for you to slow down, if you had to. Maybe they estimated your speed wrong, not concentrating wrt chatting to each other/children, whatever. Maybe, since you thought they'd get in behind you, you slightly increased your speed, perhaps they ran out of slip road, and couldn't get up to the speed needed to safely get past you, and had to brake sharply to be able to get in behind you. I'm guessing, but if it had been a truck, you'd have seen it accelerating to get in front of you, and you would have given way. It is easier for a vehicle to accelerate down a ramp, than to brake, and you have to always allow for others who do not view the situation the same way as yourself, for various reasons. It would be interesting to know which vehicle you were driving, and theirs, such is my preconceived ideas wrt young 'ladies' driving standards being related to the cars they drive.

Me Ford Bmax, they some type of people carrier, possibly a Renault.

 

At some point they should have realised they would not get in front of me and backed off, not braked, but backed off allowing them to slip in behind me. I was doing about 50-60MPH. I think you are being extremely charitable as to why they did what they did. Had it been a truck I'd have eased off to let it out, inertia et al. They just misjudged the situation, and took the wrong option.  

 

I think you can judge their attitude by immediately overtaking me to the peril of other drivers.

 

But we all make mistakes, some with less consequences than others.

 

Rob

[boxbrownie]

I would change many to most and include joining A road dual carriageways.

 

While attending a speed awareness course several years ago I raised this with the "instructor". They expressed the view that, as you are behind the car coming down the slip road, it is your responsibility to slow down and make way for them. That is not what I have always believed and is contrary to the Highway Code. It is also dangerous.

 

With such experts advising "delinquent" drivers incorrectly, is it surprising that driving standards are so poor.

Driving home from the Midlands to Cornwall at the weekend we were in the 2nd lane on the M5 slowly overtaking slower traffic in the 1st lane, there was a on slip road merging and a BMW (sorry but it was ) joined the Motorway onto the 1st lane along side us as we were just approaching a slower car in the 1st lane, the BMW driver joined so fast he had to brake behind the slower car in the 1st lane, as we went past he gestured to us that we should have pulled out into the 3rd (overtaking lane) of the Motorway just so he could overtake the slower car in front of him.......I didn’t pull over as there was faster traffic overtaking us in the 3rd lane, what made this worse was that after just a few hundred yards there was a off slip to another close junction, he overtook the slower car then had to pull in quickly as he wanted to pull off at the junction......he was on the Motorway for 20-30 seconds if that, didn’t bother me at the time, just another idiot you have to drive aware of, but it happens all too often.

[Happy Hippo]

When I am cycling, I try and use cycle tracks: not always convenient due to the lack of priority for cyclists at various road junctions, so you have got to be aware of what is happening all around the bike.

 

Over the last few days have seen some really sensible drivers,and yes, I live in Telford!

 

Cycling on a main road through the local industrial estate, an LGV was following and declined to squeeze past me as some have done in the past, but patiently waited.  I was turning left at the next roundabout, and having signalled my intention to turn off, gave him a thumbs up.  I got a friendly two toots of the horns and we parted company.

 

Today in the winding lane near to our house, a number of cars also waited for me instead of riskily pushing on:  As soon as I could see the road ahead was clear, I waved them through.  On each occasion the car passed me with plenty of clearance.

 

I thought I'd mention this as it makes a refreshing change to the usual list of complaints about the idiots we oft see described on these pages.

 

There really are some careful and considerate drivers out there!

[PhilJ W]

One idiot this evening on the A13. I was driving east approaching the Pitsea flyover having pulled out to the outside lane to avoid the queue of cars that usually forms there in the rush hour. A lorry in the nearside lane indicated that he wanted to pull into the outside lane (due to said queue). So I flashed my headlights to allow the lorry to pull out. As he did so this idiot in a Fiesta sped up alongside me only to have to brake sharply to avoid hitting the queue of cars.

[MarkC]

A127 dual carriageway, westbound approaching the Halfway House on-slip. This slip road is about a quarter mile long and has complete visibility of the traffic on the main carriageway.

 

I'm on the inside lane and check nearside mirror for any traffic coming down the slip road as they can get up to quite a speed. There's one vehicle coming down and at the time was well behind me, so I carry on in the inside lane as they'll slip in behind as there's little traffic behind me on the inside and back aways.

 

Next thing I know is they're up the side of me trying to push out. I can't go out to the second lane as traffic is passing me, so I carry on. They have to slip in behind, then immediately overtake, causing traffic to brake, and then proceed to give me the "finger" out the driver and passenger windows.

 

Why on earth they didn't ease up and slip in easily in the first place is beyond me.

 

They just happened to be "ladies" in the offending car, with children. 

 

Rob

 

Perhaps the driver had been on a speed awareness course with an instructor with the same opinion as the one that Jol commented on? Who knows, other that the fact that they were in breach of the Highway Code...

 

[MarkC]

 

 

I've heard one or two stories about people giving speed awareness courses that give the impression they're clueless and don't know enough to be behind the wheel or in front of a classroom.

That old saw "Them as can, do. Them as can't, teach" springs to mind here

[shortliner]

That old saw "Them as can, do. Them as can't, teach" springs to mind here

...and them as canna do either, examine! 

[kevinlms]

Meanwhile in NSW, Australia!

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-14/man-charged-after-allegedly-using-mobility-scooter-to-tow-boat/10497606

[rembrow]

About 9 months ago my daughter and son-in-law were driving on the A14 south of Ipswich towards Felixstowe and were overtaking a vehicle in the inside lane. They were passing the Copdock Interchange junction where another car joined at speed, in front of the car they had nearly overtaken and continued across into their lane, causing them to brake sharply to avoid a collision. The occupants of the joining vehicle, made gestures to the sounded horn. Son-in-law submitted dash cam evidence to Suffolk Police who agreed an offence had occurred and asked if he wished them to warn the other driver, or fine the driver with licence points, the later could only apply if son-in-law was willing to give a statement. He requested a fine provided a statement, and understood a fine and 3 penalty points were awarded. Since then he has submitted three other potential unsafe suspect driving offence dash cam evidence and each one has been used by the relevant Police force. Worth thinking about.

[polybear]

About 9 months ago my daughter and son-in-law were driving on the A14 south of Ipswich towards Felixstowe and were overtaking a vehicle in the inside lane. They were passing the Copdock Interchange junction where another car joined at speed, in front of the car they had nearly overtaken and continued across into their lane, causing them to brake sharply to avoid a collision. The occupants of the joining vehicle, made gestures to the sounded horn. Son-in-law submitted dash cam evidence to Suffolk Police who agreed an offence had occurred and asked if he wished them to warn the other driver, or fine the driver with licence points, the later could only apply if son-in-law was willing to give a statement. He requested a fine provided a statement, and understood a fine and 3 penalty points were awarded. Since then he has submitted three other potential unsafe suspect driving offence dash cam evidence and each one has been used by the relevant Police force. Worth thinking about.

 

Mind you, does the accused have visibility of the statement given, and by whom?  It's ok until the accused turns out to be bitter and twisted and intent on revenge....

[dvdlcs]

I was under the impression, perhaps wrongly, that when crossing a white line to move from one road to another, whether stationary from a junction or merging via a slip road that you should be able to do this without causing any traffic on the road that you are joining to change its speed or direction. Possibly an ideal that than a practicality in most congested areas, though.

 

When in the left lane on a motor/high/freeway if I am approaching an on ramp and particularly if I can see traffic on the ramp I will move right if possible so that the merging traffic has one less obstacle to contend with. Has to be safer all round, particularly for me :-)

 

Seen so many instances where people are driving (cruising) along in the left lane approaching an on ramp and suddenly realise that there is merging traffic only when they arrive in the zone. Sometimes the right lane has a suitable space for them too.

 

One of those situations where although you may have the right of way it can make sense to "give way" (slow down / change lanes) to make life easier for all concerned.

[rembrow]

Mind you, does the accused have visibility of the statement given, and by whom? It's ok until the accused turns out to be bitter and twisted and intent on revenge....

AFAIK when the police offer the penalty/points option, it is to avoid prosecution. They probably send the offender the dssh cam footage but not the statement of the complainent. The statement would have to be provided if the driver opted for a court hearing, majority won't as the court fines are likely to be greater.

[avonside1563]

My pet peeve currently is people who cannot work out how to use lanes correctly on multiple lane roads, particularly now that sections of the M6 and M5 that I travel regularly are 4 lane managed motorways! Commonly lanes 1 and 2 are almost empty and lane 3 is crammed full of the usual suspects happily pottering along at 65mph causing hold ups to everyone as they have to cross from lane 1 to 4 overtake them! The absolute classic I see almost every day is the person who is pottering along in lane 1 until I overtake them in lane 2 and in my mirror I see they have suddenly realised they must be in the wrong lane and move to lane 2 just as I move back to lane 1!

 

Where the M6 becomes 4 lanes at Jct 13 southbound is a classic example that even 'professional' drivers (such as HGV) cannot work out how to use lanes correctly. I often follow lorries that sit in lane 2 for miles, sometimes until they reach the M6 Toll junction and suddenly realise they can move over to lane 1!

[Nick C]

My pet peeve currently is people who cannot work out how to use lanes correctly on multiple lane roads, particularly now that sections of the M6 and M5 that I travel regularly are 4 lane managed motorways! Commonly lanes 1 and 2 are almost empty and lane 3 is crammed full of the usual suspects happily pottering along at 65mph causing hold ups to everyone as they have to cross from lane 1 to 4 overtake them! 

 

There was an awful lot of that on the M3/M25 on Sunday on the way to & from Tolworth. Along with the people who insist on driving in lane 2 regardless - not only will they not move back to lane 1, they also won't go to lane 3 to overtake other traffic in 2...

[polybear]

There was an awful lot of that on the M3/M25 on Sunday on the way to & from Tolworth. Along with the people who insist on driving in lane 2 regardless - not only will they not move back to lane 1, they also won't go to lane 3 to overtake other traffic in 2...

 

 

It always amuses me that when you're doing 70 in lane 2, someone comes bombing up behind you and proceeds to get mightily p1ssed that you won't get out of their way.  However, they won't overtake using (the empty) lane 3 and the fact that they want to (continue) speeding doesn't put them in the wrong, oh no..... 

[avonside1563]

It always amuses me that when you're doing 70 in lane 2, someone comes bombing up behind you and proceeds to get mightily p1ssed that you won't get out of their way.  However, they won't overtake using (the empty) lane 3 and the fact that they want to (continue) speeding doesn't put them in the wrong, oh no..... 

If lane 1 is empty then why are you in lane 2?

 

Rule 264 of the Highway Code states:

“You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slow-moving vehicles, you should return to the left-hand lane as soon as you are safely past.”

[johnlambert]

It always amuses me that when you're doing 70 in lane 2, someone comes bombing up behind you and proceeds to get mightily p1ssed that you won't get out of their way.  However, they won't overtake using (the empty) lane 3 and the fact that they want to (continue) speeding doesn't put them in the wrong, oh no..... 

I'm frequently amazed by drivers who will sit right on your back bumper whlie you are passing traffic in lane one, but won't use the empty lane 3 to go past.

[bimble]

If lane 1 is empty then why are you in lane 2?

 

Rule 264 of the Highway Code states:

“You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slow-moving vehicles, you should return to the left-hand lane as soon as you are safely past.”

 

Who said Lane 1 was empty...?? Polybear could be overtaking a line of HGVs...

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

which, if the nose-to-tail traffic is travelling at speed, must be travelling at well under the ~2 second gap, which would leave enough room for cars that have matched the speed of the main flow* to merge...

 

 

* - driving slowly down slip roads and then joining at speeds 15-20mph lower than the flow traffic and only THEN accelerating to speed is another issue entirely

 

I once did a non scientific, self generated mathmatical exercise on the volumes of traffic leaving London village onto the M!, the figures were from a Gov,uk website or something similar.

Assuming an average 63 mph to allow for lorries and faster cars being at different speeds and correct gaps being left between vehicles, and assuming vehicles hit the beginning of the M1 at full speed, if everyone drove correctly and left the correct gaps between vehicles, starting at 7 am, by 12 noon there were something like 5000 cars at Cricklewood waiting to start their journey.

All this really proves is that there are too many cars on the road or that there isn't enough capacity on the roads which do exist, therefore making it impossible to drive within the rules of the road.

 

Mike.