Driving standards

[Reorte]

When I drove in France for the first time and came off the ferry I went around the first roundabout the wrong way but quickly realised

I did have a moment driving abroad thinking "What's that idiot doing on the wrong side oh hell it's me who's the idiot..."

[caradoc]

Now I know I don't know all of the facts regarding the tragic crash on the M40 yesterday,but dashcam footage clearly shows a car pulling a caravan in the middle lane going in the opposite direction to the rest of the Traffic. I have to ask would most drivers not ask themselves, what am I doing wrong? Then make for the hard shoulder and stop, then await for the arrival of the Police and get helped safely off of the motorway. They would obviously receive a ticket and an inevitable driving ban, but 3 people would still be alive today. Dementia comes to mind I am afraid.

 

Correction :-  Outside Lane apparently. Foreign Number Plates.  I still fail to understand how he drove so far.

When I drove in France for the first time and came off the ferry I went around the first roundabout the wrong way but quickly realised

 

A most horrible and tragic accident. The dashcam footage I saw showed the vehicle plus caravan in the outside lane, so somehow they must have turned off the A329 at Milton Common onto the exit slipway from the northbound carriageway (which is long and bendy), and then crossed the lanes of traffic to get to the outside lane. As you say it is astonishing that the driver did not very quickly realise that something was badly wrong.

[Reorte]

A most horrible and tragic accident. The dashcam footage I saw showed the vehicle plus caravan in the outside lane, so somehow they must have turned off the A329 at Milton Common onto the exit slipway from the northbound carriageway (which is long and bendy), and then crossed the lanes of traffic to get to the outside lane. As you say it is astonishing that the driver did not very quickly realise that something was badly wrong.

How far would they have gone? Foreign plates so I assume used to driving on the other side, confused and in a panic could they have tried to move over to the side of the road they'd usually expect to find the hard shoulder on?

[dvdlcs]

Today I was approaching a roundabout behind a slow car. The roundabout approach opens up to 2 lanes.

 

From the right hand lane, you can only turn right. From the left lane, you can go left, straight or right. Marked clearly on the road.

 

I want to turn left, so the left lane is my target. Happily the car in front goes into the right lane - perfect. But no, he changes his mind and cuts straight in front of me, into the left lane and turns left.

 

There are two lanes in the new road, so I head into the right lane to pass him. So what does he do, cuts in front of me again to get into the right lane!

 

Twice in less than 10 seconds, both occasions required braking from me! Roundabouts here aren't as prevalent as in the UK, but they certainly aren't new.

 

Falcon driver by any chance?

 

Or was it a Camry?

 

:-)

Edited October 17, 2018 by dvdlcs

[dvdlcs]

A most horrible and tragic accident. The dashcam footage I saw showed the vehicle plus caravan in the outside lane, so somehow they must have turned off the A329 at Milton Common onto the exit slipway from the northbound carriageway (which is long and bendy), and then crossed the lanes of traffic to get to the outside lane. As you say it is astonishing that the driver did not very quickly realise that something was badly wrong.

 

In Australia there are large red signs with "Wrong Way - Go Back" written on them at the top of the exit ramps from the highways and freeways.Can't remember what is present in this position in the UK, the standard "No Entry" sign, I assume?

[caradoc]

In Australia there are large red signs with "Wrong Way - Go Back" written on them at the top of the exit ramps from the highways and freeways.Can't remember what is present in this position in the UK, the standard "No Entry" sign, I assume?

 

Looking at Google Maps there are indeed standard No Entry signs, plus road markings appropriate to the other direction only. However on the signs approaching the intersection, from the south anyway, the markings for the exit slip roads are much smaller (and therefore less prominent) than those showing the routes onto the M40. No doubt such factors will be fully considered by the Road Accident Investigation Branch, just as they would be by the Rail equivalent if a railway level crossing was involved.

[kevinlms]

Falcon driver by any chance?

 

Or was it a Camry?

 

:-)

I didn't really notice what was been driven, except it was much smaller than a Falcon, could have been Hyundai i30? I was driving a Falcon wagon, with headlights on as well & had been following him for about 4km, so he certainly ought to have I was about!

 

FWIW, I normally drive a Commodore, the Falcon belongs to the other half.

[duncan]

I wonder if the passenger realised or not ?

[ejstubbs]

Foreign plates so I assume used to driving on the other side, confused and in a panic could they have tried to move over to the side of the road they'd usually expect to find the hard shoulder on?

 

Given that they apparently travelled some distance going the wrong way I think it's at least equally likely that they thought they were in the correct lane for driving on a three-lane road in the UK.  You would expect to have traffic going the other way passing you on the right in that situation.  If three-lane roads are more common where they hailed from then it wouldn't necessarily seem odd to them, especially if they failed to notice the traffic going the same way as them on the other side of the crash barrier.  Even if they did notice that, it's conceivable to rationalise that away.  (IIRC there is, or was, a section of the Paris peripherique consisting of multiple lanes all going in the same direction, with a barriered reservation part way along that splits it into two carriageways both going the same way.  I remember it because I was travelling in convoy with a pal who changed lanes at the last minute, leaving me on the "wrong" side of the reservation.  I initially thought we were going to end up at opposite ends of the country, but a mile or so later it all joined up again.)

 

TBH I'm not sure how one could go about reaching the hard shoulder safely across two lanes of oncoming traffic, if one did ever did find oneself driving the wrong way along lane 3.  Stopping as far over on to the central reservation as possible might be preferable (although it would potentially make exiting the vehicle very unsafe if it ended up too close to the barrier to get the doors open on that side).

Edited October 17, 2018 by ejstubbs

[kevinlms]

From Australia - very dodgy and someone is going to get severely disciplined.

 

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/tale-of-a-fox-stirs-claims-of-blatant-cover-up-by-senior-police-20181017-p50a4b.html

[kevinlms]

 

When I drove in France for the first time and came off the ferry I went around the first roundabout the wrong way but quickly realised

I suspect the locals are only too aware of this one. It must happen every single day for them!

[Tony_S]

I suspect the locals are only too aware of this one. It must happen every single day for them!

I think perhaps the signage is better now. To make a mistake now you would have to be very very unobservant.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Tony_S

[PhilJ W]

I remember some large signs as you left the docks at Dover saying 'Drive on left', in several languages and IIRC similar signs as you left Calais (saying 'Drive on right).

[rembrow]

When I worked at Harwich in the early 90s, there were accidents on the A 120, which took traffic from Harwich to the A12 at Colchester, where foreign tourists had driven on the wrong side, the A120 being 2 lane for the first 5 miles. This was partly caused by some ferries arriving early morning at a time when there was little other traffic on the road, problem was there were hgvs heading to the port. Multi language drive on the left signs were erected for several miles, as warnings.

[TheQ]

Working abroad and the UK in the past it used to worry me when I came back here as a lot of local roads are single carriageway or single to double to single, all with no white lines. I was always teriffied I'd turn the wrong way..

 

Out in Saudi you always had to watch out for locals as they would go round about any way they felt like.

If it was pay day for the army in Tabuk then the 4 lanes of the centrally divided dual carriageway( supposedly two lanes each way), would have six lanes of traffic all heading one way for the banks...

Edited October 17, 2018 by TheQ

[caradoc]

Given that they apparently travelled some distance going the wrong way I think it's at least equally likely that they thought they were in the correct lane for driving on a three-lane road in the UK.  You would expect to have traffic going the other way passing you on the right in that situation.

 

But to get from the exit slip road to the outside lane they had already crossed the other two lanes in the face of traffic coming towards them at speed, without at that point causing a head-on collision (although sadly that did occur shortly afterwards of course). It seems incredible that the driver could have been that unobservant.

[dvdlcs]

But to get from the exit slip road to the outside lane they had already crossed the other two lanes in the face of traffic coming towards them at speed, without at that point causing a head-on collision (although sadly that did occur shortly afterwards of course). It seems incredible that the driver could have been that unobservant.

 

Wonder how feasible it would be to paint direction arrows in each lane prior to an exit?

 

Therefore if someone did somehow go down the exit slip (looking at the back of all the signs) and arrive on the main road facing the oncoming traffic, even if there was no other traffic around, the arrows on all the lanes would be pointing back the way they came.

 

Not sure how useful that would be, but if someone has managed to get that far I'd wonder if they would notice the road markings?

 

Drifting further into the realms of fantasy, those ramps that only allow passage in one direction, as the vehicles rolling over them in the intended direction push them down to the horizontal. But that is a lot of work, plus maintenance, plus if anything ever did need to traverse the slip road in the wrong direction (emergency vehicles etc.) that would be a problem.

[newbryford]

Note to little old lady on my commute this morning.

When driving into low sunlight, take extra care to make sure you stay on the correct side of the road...…

 

I had to slow right down before she finally saw me and took evasive action.

[jonny777]

But to get from the exit slip road to the outside lane they had already crossed the other two lanes in the face of traffic coming towards them at speed, without at that point causing a head-on collision (although sadly that did occur shortly afterwards of course). It seems incredible that the driver could have been that unobservant.

 

 

Yes, and if they had been on the A329 prior to joining the M40, surely they were not driving on the right along that road as well, because they would have had a head-on collision. Therefore it is not as if they were teleported onto the slip road and suddenly became confused. 

 

However, the slip road splits at the A329 end, in order for ex-motorway traffic to turn right (northwards). The driver may have mistaken this for the turning onto the motorway and continued along the slip road in the left hand lane (as he saw it) until reaching the northbound carriageway. But then, the hard shoulder would only be one lane away rather than the two lanes he had to cross to get to the fast lane. 

 

Edited to add that after a rather ghoulish trip along his route (on Streetview) I now realise the slip road has no hard shoulder, and the motorway one peters out just before the slip road begins - which reduces his options somewhat. 

Edited October 18, 2018 by jonny777

[PaulCheffus]

Wonder how feasible it would be to paint direction arrows in each lane prior to an exit?

Hi

 

From what I've witnessed people don't seem to take much notice of whats painted on the road so I don't think that would help.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[CUTLER2579]

A car which crashed killing three people after driving the wrong way on a motorway had been involved in a collision five days earlier, police have said.

The force said on 10 October a report of a damage-only road traffic collision involving the Subaru Forester in High Wycombe was made to them.

Seems that I again come back to questioning his state of mind.

 

Police said the Mondeo driver who died was Stuart Richards, 32 who was from Stockport in Greater Manchester. I wish his family and friends my heartfelt sympathy. If ever a driver was 100% innocent it was him.

Edited October 18, 2018 by CUTLER2579

[duncan]

Wonder how feasible it would be to paint direction arrows in each lane prior to an exit?

 

 

 

Many of the roads in Scotland used by foreign tourists have direction arrows painted on them, on either side of junctions and laybies.  Most of the foreign drivers seem to notice them. 

[ejstubbs]

My recollection is that most (quite possibly all) of the ferry terminals around the west coast of Scotland and the islands have big multi-lingual reminder signs as you depart towards the normal road network.  Which also goes to show how many non-UK visitors they do get round those parts.

 

Mind you, the concept of "keeping left" on some of the narrow roads in that part of the world is rather more theoretical than practical!

[Coryton]

My recollection is that most (quite possibly all) of the ferry terminals around the west coast of Scotland and the islands have big multi-lingual reminder signs as you depart towards the normal road network.  Which also goes to show how many non-UK visitors they do get round those parts.

 

Mind you, the concept of "keeping left" on some of the narrow roads in that part of the world is rather more theoretical than practical!

 

Which is why reminders at passing places and where they open out into two lane roads are quite useful.

[shortliner]

As long as the authorities get it right - I remember having to phone the roads department some years ago, when coming down the brae towards the Cromarty Bridge on the A9, I realised that the road had been re-surfaced and the road markings had been newly painted, and the arrows for " keep left" had been painted the wrong way and they were pointed right! You honestly would not believe it!