Driving standards

[Enterprisingwestern]

And that statement can equally apply to the wilful damage of anothers property. Just because they're selfish in their attitude to parking doesn't mean the answer is to damage the vehicle.

 

Defining wilful is tricky, as long as you make every effort to get by without intentionally doing damage, then in the eyes of the law you've done no wrong.

 

Mike.

[PaulCheffus]

Hi

 

Defining wilful is tricky, as long as you make every effort to get by without intentionally doing damage, then in the eyes of the law you've done no wrong.

 

Mike.

 

This suggests deliberate.

 

I quite often carry a bag with zips, buckles etc. on it and if someone is parking so far on the pavement that I have to squeeze past I ensure the bag drags along the side of the car.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Horsetan]

Well, I suppose he's technically an honest offender. You don't get many who are honest about criminal behaviour!

[melmerby]

And that statement can equally apply to the wilful damage of anothers property. Just because they're selfish in their attitude to parking doesn't mean the answer is to damage the vehicle.

OK, so I have to squeeze between a vehicle and a wall or thorny hedge etc. and It just happens I scratch the paintwork with my clothes, bag, walking stick, or whatever. What do you do about that?

I know I have caused damaged to another's property but are you going to prosecute me?

 

"Honest Guv it was unintentional, but it was the only way past the obstruction"

 

They will not prosecute the drivers for causing the obstruction although in many cases they know who they are and they are even sometimes seen doing it.

 

In the case with the driver on the pavement in the icy conditions the Police did visit him and the excuse was "I was only trying to keep the car off the snowy road" which the Police decided was a sound reason for driving/parking on the pavement. He said he didn't normally do it! As this vehicle is/was and probably always will be parked on the pavement I think that was a pretty lame excuse and reason for allowing it, especially as most of the other vehicles in the road were parked sensibly.

 

Maybe we could get some local residents association or such like to be given powers (under police supervision) to clamp illegally/dangerously parked vehicles.

 

Mind you it will probably be like a similar group that campaigned for years to get something done about people speeding through their village and when the police set up a trap, one of the first caught was one of those locals!

 

As you can see by my comments pavement parking really gets my goat as in many cases it is totally unnecessary and is just down to lazy/idle/slovenly driving.

 

Keith

[stewartingram]

Locally we had a problem with cars parked on the path. Local Police reaction was that they could not prosecute them for parking, only driving on the path. But how else do they get there?

 

Stewart

[chris p bacon]

OK, so I have to squeeze between a vehicle and a wall or thorny hedge etc. and It just happens I scratch the paintwork with my clothes, bag, walking stick, or whatever. What do you do about that?

I know I have caused damaged to another's property but are you going to prosecute me?

 

"Honest Guv it was unintentional, but it was the only way past the obstruction"

That is unintentional.

 

I quite often carry a bag with zips, buckles etc. on it and if someone is parking so far on the pavement that I have to squeeze past I ensure the bag drags along the side of the car.

There is absolutely no comeback as I should not be put in that position by inconsiderate parking in the first place.

I am not walking in the road, only to have the horn sounded at me and be put in danger by equally inconsiderate drivers that wont let you get past.

 

That is intentional.

 

Parking on the pavement is a PITA, but wilfully damaging someone else's property is no better, and the sort of behaviour that isn't acceptable.

 

Earlier in the thread I mentioned a person parking inconsiderately in front of the war memorial every day, one note on the windscreen explaining this and why it showed a lack of respect and the car has never parked there again.

[luckymucklebackit]

Pavement parking was on the cards to be made illegal by the Scottish Parliament until the bill failed in 2016, it hasn't gone away as this document suggests.  https://consult.scotland.gov.uk/road-policy/improving-parking-in-scotland/user_uploads/improving-parking-in-scotland.pdf.  A lot of the content of this document clarifies the legal position as it currently stands.

 

Jim

Edited June 16, 2017 by luckymucklebackit

[Coryton]

Locally we had a problem with cars parked on the path. Local Police reaction was that they could not prosecute them for parking, only driving on the path. But how else do they get there?

 

See earlier in this thread. Someone no doubt drove it there, but who? You can't tell by looking at a parked car who put it on the pavement and  - apparently - the police have no powers to insist that that car's keeper tells them.

 

The Police could of course stake it out and wait until someone drives off the pavement, committing the offence again, but it's not very practical.

 

Parking on the pavement is a PITA, but wilfully damaging someone else's property is no better, and the sort of behaviour that isn't acceptable.

 

Earlier in the thread I mentioned a person parking inconsiderately in front of the war memorial every day, one note on the windscreen explaining this and why it showed a lack of respect and the car has never parked there again.

 

I would not attempt to justify damaging other people's cars, but I'm sure there are many cases where a polite note on the windscreen wouldn't achieve much.

 

Some people don't realise they are being inconsiderate and will stop when it's pointed out, but plenty just don't care. 

[TheQ]

During term time one of the local primary schools I go past at kick out time, gets invaded by pavement parkers, which gradually builds up and up. until after a few weeks a PCSO / policeman gets put there on patrol and a few tickets are issued. Then it stops it a few days  but then it  build up again.

 

Sadly all the legs and sometimes more, that I witness outside the schools in the hot weather, will now stop for the holidays, It's frightening when I realise I'm 3 times the age of the yummy mummies...

[Coryton]

During term time one of the local primary schools I go past at kick out time, gets invaded by pavement parkers, which gradually builds up and up. until after a few weeks a PCSO / policeman gets put there on patrol and a few tickets are issued. Then it stops it a few days  but then it  build up again.

 

I used to live near a primary school where a lot of parents drove onto the pavement to park while they went into the playground to collect/drop off their children, regardless of the other parents and small children trying to use the pavement as a pavement.

 

At one point they had a policeman standing there for a few days and everyone behaved, but as soon as they had gone it all started again (which shows that people knew they shouldn't have been doing it....)

 

I came back a few years later and they had provided a drop off/pick up area which no doubt made things much better (I can't remember where they got the space from but probably from the playground, which was plenty big enough).

 

The ironic thing was that the only time it was unsafe for children to cross the "main" road near the school was when they needed to - the rest of the day there was hardly any traffic. A pedestrian crossing was apparently not allowed because it would have been on the brow of a hill and therefore unsafe due to poor visibility. (But of course people had to cross anyway, visibility or no).

[Jol Wilkinson]

During term time one of the local primary schools I go past at kick out time, gets invaded by pavement parkers, which gradually builds up and up. until after a few weeks a PCSO / policeman gets put there on patrol and a few tickets are issued. Then it stops it a few days  but then it  build up again.

 

Sadly all the legs and sometimes more, that I witness outside the schools in the hot weather, will now stop for the holidays, It's frightening when I realise I'm 3 times the age of the yummy mummies...

In our village, the "yummy mummies" delivering their offspring to the popular primary school (about 85% of the children attending live outside the village) are recognised by driving a large 4X4, can't park it,  park in the road if they can, don't keep an eye on their children as they walk the few yards along the road to the lane leading to the school  ignore the speed limit through the village, etc. Bare flesh isn't on show, they are too upper class for that.

 

They used to be allowed to use the pub car park until one of them told the publican to f**k of when he asked if they would move their car so he could get into his store. The chains across the entrance during school arrival and departure time went up that that day.

[Jinty3f]

Outside our local primary school, the yummy mummies are wearing rumpled pyjamas, have last night's curlers in their hair and a fag dangling from their lips as they chuck the kids out of the car.

[jjb1970]

I must admit that I often felt tempted to force my kiddies pushchair between hedges and cars parked on the pavement so the carless owners would have to fork out for a respray but never did it as it would have been profoundly wrong and to have done it would have deprived me of any right to whinge about the problem. That said, it really did **** me off that I was expected to walk down the middle of the street with the kiddy in the pushchair by some selfish driver.

[Reorte]

I do try to keep my fingers away from the keyboard on this thread, but I'll pop out from behind my computer screen again for parking on pavements... As regular readers will already know, I drive buses.  Now sometimes, parking ON pavements actually helps me, its true. It makes it a bit easier to get past. 

Please don't take this as implying any criticism of yourself, the post just reminded me of it. I was parked in the station car park at Penrith (waiting to pick someone up) once only to get some "move or I'll bash your car" comments from a bus driver, and I was parked in a marked space. Apparently there should've been some cones in it to keep cars out so the bus had room, but it didn't leave me with much sympathy for bus drivers; if he'd asked politely I wouldn't have had a problem at all. Anyway I don't want to tar all bus drivers because of one awkward individual.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Anyway I don't want to tar all bus drivers because of one awkward individual.

 Oh, please do, tarring everybody with the same brush is an affectionate trait of RMWeb!

 

Mike.

[Coryton]

I must admit that I often felt tempted to force my kiddies pushchair between hedges and cars parked on the pavement so the carless owners would have to fork out for a respray but never did it as it would have been profoundly wrong and to have done it would have deprived me of any right to whinge about the problem. 

 

Careless they might have been, but they certainly weren't carless unless you did something more drastic than scrape the sides...

 

Sorry, but that typo was too good to resist.

[Horsetan]

Oh, please do, tarring everybody with the same brush is an affectionate trait of RMWeb!.

You may find the feathering a bit hard to take, though.

[melmerby]

Further to the bit about yummy mummies blocking everything with their selfish need to park right outside the school gates

 

I've been using a bus stop several times recently which is right outside a school, there is another opposite and a light controlled crossing between them.

Although I have been at the bus stop at "throwing out" time there has not been, in 2 weeks, one single child using the bus in either direction, meanwhile the yummy mummies have parked their vehicles on every available piece of the tarmac including the bus stops and the crossing. Nothing will be done as pleas to the local authority have fallen on deaf ears in the past.

 

A similar occurence featuring another school was on the local TV news a few nights ago.

Mothers collecting their little darlings had been blocking the roads in a housing estate so they could use the side entrance to a school and save 10 yards of walking.

A local resident even shot some footage of a fire engine on an emergency that couldn't get down the road due the inconsiderate parking.

After the concerns were raised with the school they promptly closed the side entrance forcing the mothers to use the proper entrance and not block the side roads.

Whinge? Boy did they whinge. Everyone else was at fault - not them. Bitter complaints about having to walk a few yards extra from proper parking areas.

 

They don't seem to get it that the most dangerous time on the road for a child is at school run time, without all this chelsea tractor aggression which they are creating the roads would be safer for all including their own children.

 

With the increase in inconsiderate school run parking more and more schools are getting restrictions applied to combat it.

Maybe children will eventually go back to walking to school (where distance allows) or use the bus.

 

(No more deliberate attempts to scratch cars!) Keith

[JDW]

I can think of one school where we actually have to sit blocking the road if there are too many cars parked nearby to pick up the kids.  The marked stop is barely long enough for two buses, we send 3 artics, as you approach there are cars parked on the left, and the road is just wide enough for a car + bus side by side.  then the bus stop, then cars parked on the right.  If there's nowhere to stop between the parked cars on the left, the first bus has to sit alongside the cars beyond the bus stop, the second and third into and partly into the marked bay.  Car drivers often try and drive up to (and presumably expect to drive through) the buses, even though they can see them there, and know that they'll be there, and then get very annoyed at having to reverse back out again... <smile> <wave politely> :-D

[Coryton]

Further to the bit about yummy mummies blocking everything with their selfish need to park right outside the school gates

 

I've been using a bus stop several times recently which is right outside a school, there is another opposite and a light controlled crossing between them.

Although I have been at the bus stop at "throwing out" time there has not been, in 2 weeks, one single child using the bus in either direction, meanwhile the yummy mummies have parked their vehicles on every available piece of the tarmac including the bus stops and the crossing. Nothing will be done as pleas to the local authority have fallen on deaf ears in the past.

 

A similar occurence featuring another school was on the local TV news a few nights ago.

Mothers collecting their little darlings had been blocking the roads in a housing estate so they could use the side entrance to a school and save 10 yards of walking.

A local resident even shot some footage of a fire engine on an emergency that couldn't get down the road due the inconsiderate parking.

After the concerns were raised with the school they promptly closed the side entrance forcing the mothers to use the proper entrance and not block the side roads.

Whinge? Boy did they whinge. Everyone else was at fault - not them. Bitter complaints about having to walk a few yards extra from proper parking areas.

 

They don't seem to get it that the most dangerous time on the road for a child is at school run time, without all this chelsea tractor aggression which they are creating the roads would be safer for all including their own children.

 

With the increase in inconsiderate school run parking more and more schools are getting restrictions applied to combat it.

Maybe children will eventually go back to walking to school (where distance allows) or use the bus.

 

(No more deliberate attempts to scratch cars!) Keith

 

It's not quite one-sided though.

 

The head of a local primary was bombarded with complaints at one point by someone objecting to parents briefly parking entirely legally outside his house, fully on the road, not blocking his drive, while they dropped off/collected children...

[Baby Deltic]

Further to the bit about yummy mummies blocking everything with their selfish need to park right outside the school gates

 

I've been using a bus stop several times recently which is right outside a school, there is another opposite and a light controlled crossing between them.

Although I have been at the bus stop at "throwing out" time there has not been, in 2 weeks, one single child using the bus in either direction, meanwhile the yummy mummies have parked their vehicles on every available piece of the tarmac including the bus stops and the crossing. Nothing will be done as pleas to the local authority have fallen on deaf ears in the past.

 

A similar occurence featuring another school was on the local TV news a few nights ago.

Mothers collecting their little darlings had been blocking the roads in a housing estate so they could use the side entrance to a school and save 10 yards of walking.

A local resident even shot some footage of a fire engine on an emergency that couldn't get down the road due the inconsiderate parking.

After the concerns were raised with the school they promptly closed the side entrance forcing the mothers to use the proper entrance and not block the side roads.

Whinge? Boy did they whinge. Everyone else was at fault - not them. Bitter complaints about having to walk a few yards extra from proper parking areas.

 

They don't seem to get it that the most dangerous time on the road for a child is at school run time, without all this chelsea tractor aggression which they are creating the roads would be safer for all including their own children.

 

With the increase in inconsiderate school run parking more and more schools are getting restrictions applied to combat it.

Maybe children will eventually go back to walking to school (where distance allows) or use the bus.

 

(No more deliberate attempts to scratch cars!) Keith

One day one of their dear little kiddies will get knocked down and killed as a result of their sh!tty parking obtructing crossings etc. Then when they bleat to the Council they will find they have retrictions and parking enforcement outside the school, which they will bleat about, until that dies down, then back to their old ways and another kid gets killed or injured and so-on and so-forth. Sadly it will be the kids getting hurt because of the stupid actions of their dumb, self centred parents.

[Coryton]

I can think of one school where we actually have to sit blocking the road if there are too many cars parked nearby to pick up the kids.  The marked stop is barely long enough for two buses, we send 3 artics, as you approach there are cars parked on the left, and the road is just wide enough for a car + bus side by side.  then the bus stop, then cars parked on the right.  If there's nowhere to stop between the parked cars on the left, the first bus has to sit alongside the cars beyond the bus stop, the second and third into and partly into the marked bay.  Car drivers often try and drive up to (and presumably expect to drive through) the buses, even though they can see them there, and know that they'll be there, and then get very annoyed at having to reverse back out again... <smile> <wave politely> :-D

 

Some time ago, there were complaints near where I lived about busses scraping the sides of parked cars (they knew it was the bus because they always neatly left little streaks of Arriva livery on the cars, apparently).

 

A resident said something along the lines that they understood that some people used busses, but the sad fact was that the road just wasn't suitable for them, as there wasn't space between the lines of cars parked on each side.

 

Of course another view would have been that while of course people like to park their cars in front of their house, the sad fact is that the road just wasn't suitable for parking on both sides as there wasn't space for a bus to get between.

 

(How they coped when getting things delivered by truck, getting their bins emptied, or a fire engine through on this 'not suitable for buses' road I'm not sure).

[coachmann]

I kept my PSV licence going by driving a double deck bus on the school runs and it was a pantomine getting around thoughtlessly parked cars even in the early to late 1970's. More recently, there was a 'blockage' near the high school so I walked forward and asked a bus driver if he knew what was happening. "It's that woman over there in the 4 X 4....She won't back up".  A reluctance to do reverse moves does appear to be a woman thing and I wonder why driving schools haven't taken this on board. 

 

I saw something brilliant the other day......A driving school was teaching its young girls to drive in BMW's.  It makes sense when so many young females own BM's and Mercs these days.

[chris p bacon]

I have a lower school within 50M of the shop conversion, at drop off and pick times there are people parked along the road and occasionally across the drive (not so often now since they've seen the delivery lorries are bigger than them) Some people moan about the pick ups but the school is sited next to a very busy main road through town and the oldest child is 7 years so they are going to be supervised.

Of course the siting of the school could have been better, it was originally in the middle of town and needed upgrading, so a new one was built in the grounds of the middle school on the edge of town further from the housing it served.   The site was sold for housing so isn't available anymore and now the 'new' school needs upgrading as well and the site is too small (half the size of the old).......excellent bit of forward planning by the education authority

[Coryton]

I can think of one school where we actually have to sit blocking the road if there are too many cars parked nearby to pick up the kids.  The marked stop is barely long enough for two buses, we send 3 artics, as you approach there are cars parked on the left, and the road is just wide enough for a car + bus side by side.  then the bus stop, then cars parked on the right.  If there's nowhere to stop between the parked cars on the left, the first bus has to sit alongside the cars beyond the bus stop, the second and third into and partly into the marked bay.  Car drivers often try and drive up to (and presumably expect to drive through) the buses, even though they can see them there, and know that they'll be there, and then get very annoyed at having to reverse back out again... <smile> <wave politely> :-D

 

Where I am (and I'm sure it's not unusual) some of the service bus routes have different timetables in term-time to holidays because the congestion is so much worse during the school run.

 

A bit chicken and egg I think - parents don't want their children to walk to school because it's too dangerous with all the traffic,largely consisting of children being driven to school because it's too dangerous because....