Driving standards

[Jol Wilkinson]

A trip into Ipswich today reinforced my view that the ability to buy/run a large late plate BMW or Audi does not endow the driver with any intelligence or bestow superiority over other road users. A young man driving a white Mercedes convertible on personal plates, possibly a member of the local football club squad given his direction/proximity to their training ground/hair and beard also aspired to join that elite.

[Enterprisingwestern]

A friend in the USA has just sent me this email. Same thing applies over here, except I thought, not being great at the geography of certain regions, that Burma shave was something to do with a Brazilian.

 

 

 

 

>

> A man, a miss,

> A car a curve.

> He kissed the miss,

> And missed the curve.

>

> I'm sure that Burma Shave actually saved some lives. People laughed and then were more careful! It was a REAL "service" to America, even though it was an advertisement and it was one of the RARE "really useful" ones!

>

>

> To My Old-As-Dirt Friends and Relatives who qualify as "old as dirt."

>

>

>

> For those who never saw any of the Burma Shave signs, here is a quick lesson in our history of the 1930's and '40's.

>

>

>

> Before there were interstates, when everyone drove the old 2-lane roads, Burma Shave signs would be posted all over the countryside in farmers' fields. They were small red signs with white letters. Five signs, about 100 feet apart, each containing 1 line of a 4-line couplet and the obligatory 5th sign advertising Burma Shave, a popular shaving cream.

>

>

> DON'T STICK YOUR ELBOW

> OUT SO FAR

> IT MAY GO HOME

> IN ANOTHER CAR. Burma Shave

>

>

> TRAINS DON'T WANDER

> ALL OVER THE MAP

> 'CAUSE NOBODY SITS

> IN THE ENGINEER'S LAP. Burma Shave

>

>

> SHE KISSED THE HAIRBRUSH

> BY MISTAKE

> SHE THOUGHT IT WAS

> HER HUSBAND JAKE. Burma Shave

>

>

> DON'T LOSE YOUR HEAD

> TO GAIN A MINUTE

> YOU NEED YOUR HEAD

> YOUR BRAINS ARE IN IT. Burma Shave

>

>

> DROVE TOO LONG

> DRIVER SNOOZING

> WHAT HAPPENED NEXT

> IS NOT AMUSING. Burma Shave

>

>

> BROTHER SPEEDER

> LET'S REHEARSE

> ALL TOGETHER

> GOOD MORNING, NURSE. Burma Shave

>

>

> CAUTIOUS RIDER

> TO HER RECKLESS DEAR

> LET'S HAVE LESS BULL

> AND A LITTLE MORE STEER. Burma Shave

>

>

> SPEED WAS HIGH

> WEATHER WAS NOT

> TIRES WERE THIN

> X MARKS THE SPOT. Burma Shave

>

>

> THE MIDNIGHT RIDE

> OF PAUL FOR BEER

> LED TO A WARMER

> HEMISPHERE. Burma Shave

>

>

> AROUND THE CURVE

> LICKETY-SPLIT

> BEAUTIFUL CAR

> WASN'T IT? Burma Shave

>

>

> NO MATTER THE PRICE

> NO MATTER HOW NEW

> THE BEST SAFETY DEVICE

> IN THE CAR IS YOU. Burma Shave

>

>

> A GUY WHO DRIVES

> A CAR WIDE OPEN

> IS NOT THINKIN'

> HE'S JUST HOPIN' Burma Shave

>

>

> AT INTERSECTIONS

> LOOK EACH WAY

> A HARP SOUNDS NICE

> BUT IT'S HARD TO PLAY. Burma Shave

>

>

> BOTH HANDS ON THE WHEEL

> EYES ON THE ROAD

> THAT'S THE SKILLFUL

> DRIVER'S CODE. Burma Shave

>

>

> THE ONE WHO DRIVES

> WHEN HE'S BEEN DRINKING

> DEPENDS ON YOU

> TO DO HIS THINKING. Burma Shave

>

>

> CAR IN DITCH

> DRIVER IN TREE

> THE MOON WAS FULL

> AND SO WAS HE. Burma Shave

>

>

> PASSING SCHOOL ZONE

> TAKE IT SLOW

> LET OUR LITTLE

> SHAVERS GROW. Burma Shave

>

>

> Do these bring back any old memories? If not, you're merely a child.

>

> If they do - then you're old as dirt. LIKE ME! I loved reading them.

>

> Have a great day!

 

 

Mike.

[TheQ]

does the same apply to crash helmets ?

 

 

 

edit 17/4 1.30pm   Sorry, hope no one thought I was suggesting that you shouldn't wear a crash helmet on a motor bike.  

 

                              I teach children to sail & if their parents want them to wear a helmet, I always make sure that it is a type which does not cover the ears - so they can hear other boats, the wind &                                   instructions.  They also have drainage slots so they don't get a helmetful of water.  

Of course while doing the CBT, they issue you with a radio (receiver) and ear piece so the instructor can shout at you where to go next during the test....

 

 

Starboard,.....Starboard!!!!! Starboard********,  I am on starboard you're on port...

[Horsetan]

does the same apply to crash helmets ?

 

 

 

edit 17/4 1.30pm   Sorry, hope no one thought I was suggesting that you shouldn't wear a crash helmet on a motor bike.  

 

Slightly OT, but Sikhs are exempt from the regulations for religious reasons but, even though I work down the road from Southall, I don't see many Sikhs on motorbikes; they much prefer their cars.

[Baby Deltic]

Very fast cars that the Sikh's drive too, given that they are turban charged.

[PhilJ W]

Very fast cars that the Sikh's drive too, given that they are turban charged.

Another thread needing that GROAN! button.

[Wolseley]

I don't see many Sikhs on motorbikes; they much prefer their cars.

 

 

Most of the Sikhs around here drive buses.

[PatB]

Slightly OT, but Sikhs are exempt from the regulations for religious reasons but, even though I work down the road from Southall, I don't see many Sikhs on motorbikes; they much prefer their cars.

The only time I've ever seen a helmetless Sikh on any motorcycle related vehicle was 25 odd years ago in Bristol, outside Hub Motorcycles on Stapleton Road. A young Sikh chap had just bought a  VW based trike and was showing it off to his mates. Thing is, back then, helmet use on trikes was a bit of a legal grey area anyway, regardless of religious exemptions, so it probably doesn't really count.

[Guest]

Chinese cars are apparently driven by mindless zombies!

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/unlucky-cyclist-hit-three-cars-10261908

 

(Haven't seen this other that on the awful Mirror website)

[Baby Deltic]

Chinese cars are apparently driven by mindless zombies!

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/unlucky-cyclist-hit-three-cars-10261908

 

(Haven't seen this other that on the awful Mirror website)

Apparently the cyclist was in the wrong cycling on the road rather than on the path. Judging by the car's headlights​ it was fairly dark and it looks like the bycycle had no lights, and the cyclist wasn't wearing any form of high visibility clothing so the driver might not have been able to see them. Edited April 22, 2017 by Baby Deltic

[teaky]

27 months.  Implies out in around 9 months?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39696106

 

Is this really a deterent for manslaughter?

[Horsetan]

27 months.  Implies out in around 9 months?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39696106

 

Is this really a deterent for manslaughter?

 

Admittedly, it's not much of a deterrent to inbuilt stupidity.

[Guest]

Apparently the cyclist was in the wrong cycling on the road rather than on the path. Judging by the car's headlights​ it was fairly dark and it looks like the bycycle had no lights, and the cyclist wasn't wearing any form of high visibility clothing so the driver might not have been able to see them.

 

The CCTV camera has decent visibility and Mk1 eyeball should be better than that at low light.

It's the way the rest of the traffic trundles straight into the initial accident that is worrying. A similar thing happened a few years ago in china where a toddler was hit by a succession of cars none of which stopped while bystanders did nothing. The one bystander who did intervene was berated as he might be blamed for the whole thing.

We had a Chinese lad at work who cited incidents like this as the reason he was starting his family in the UK.

[raymw]

M5, Bank Holiday Monday - not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G1p3B5cDgY

[PhilJ W]

M5, Bank Holiday Monday - not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G1p3B5cDgY

That demonstrates why speed limits are neccessary. A number of times he had to slow down for other traffic that itself was travelling at high speed but he was travelling at twice their speed or more. Also the density of the traffic makes such speeds dangerous.

[Jenny Emily]

The biggest problem seems to be the speed differential between vehicles. As long as most vehicles are traveling at +/- 10 or so mph then people have enough time to see other vehicles in their mirrors, judge closing distances and accurately and safely pick gaps and merge with the flow in each lane. Once you remove the speed limit or some-one decides the limit doesn't apply to them, you get the dangerous situation of speed differentials whereby a car can be upon you in the time between looking and checking you have a safe gap to pull out into and actually completing the maneuver.

 

Most cars just don't go at the speed that Lambo was doing. They can't. Far safer to limit the speed down to within the zone of what other vehicles can safely travel at. Ever tried doing a ton* or more in a normal bog-standard family car? It is actually quite scary, and certainly you feel control rapidly disappearing. A car that cruises just fine at 80 without feeling like it is breaking a sweat can loll really bad at 110* and it doesn't take much of a road surface imperfection to send you out of control. Not to mention the increased risk of brake fade and tyres failing. 

 

*Nürburgring open day, before anyone starts trying to lecture. 

[Norm81]

Ever tried doing a ton* or more in a normal bog-standard family car? It is actually quite scary, and certainly you feel control rapidly disappearing. A car that cruises just fine at 80 without feeling like it is breaking a sweat can loll really bad at 110* and it doesn't take much of a road surface imperfection to send you out of control. Not to mention the increased risk of brake fade and tyres failing. 

 

*Nürburgring open day, before anyone starts trying to lecture.

 

Out if interest, what car did you take round the 'ring?

 

Of course with the increased speed comes the requirement for increased concentration and observation, which some drivers seem sadly lacking in even at legal speeds. This is when the accidents happen.

 

I really do think new drivers should have to do some sort if skid pan/handling course in a controlled environment in a car with no driver aids. So they know what happens when they reach the limit, then do a car crash demonstration (with actors all made up like on casualty or is it Holby City these days etc) like the fire brigade do for training to hit home the consequences of pushing that limit.

[PatB]

There's been quite a bit of research done that suggests that speed differential is a much greater risk factor than absolute speed. I haven't got any references to hand  but I seem to remember that once the speed of an individual vehicle deviates from the average of traffic on a given road by (IIRC) ~20% the crash risk rises substantially. I can't remember if it's a linear or exponential relationship though. That 20% works in either direction too, which certainly gels with my own experience of being in charge of vehicles significantly slower than the general run of traffic.

[Jenny Emily]

Out if interest, what car did you take round the 'ring?

 

BMW 3 series, and I was probably driving it like a Nun compared to most because I was very much aware that we needed it to drive back from Germany. 

[PhilJ W]

I have driven at over 100 mph on public roads both here and in Germany, legally I might add. In the UK it was on the M6 before the 70 mph limit was imposed. This was in a Vauxhall FD Victor VX 4/90 and 108 mph was showing on the speedometer. There was very little traffic on the Motorway and lane discipline seemed to have been better back then. On the German Autobahn 70 mph was slow compared to most of the other traffic which was quite heavy, but as can be seen in the film clip driving standards in Germany are far higher.

[JDW]

The biggest problem seems to be the speed differential between vehicles. As long as most vehicles are traveling at +/- 10 or so mph then people have enough time to see other vehicles in their mirrors, judge closing distances and accurately and safely pick gaps and merge with the flow in each lane. Once you remove the speed limit or some-one decides the limit doesn't apply to them, you get the dangerous situation of speed differentials whereby a car can be upon you in the time between looking and checking you have a safe gap to pull out into and actually completing the maneuver.

 

Most cars just don't go at the speed that Lambo was doing. They can't. Far safer to limit the speed down to within the zone of what other vehicles can safely travel at. Ever tried doing a ton* or more in a normal bog-standard family car? It is actually quite scary, and certainly you feel control rapidly disappearing. A car that cruises just fine at 80 without feeling like it is breaking a sweat can loll really bad at 110* and it doesn't take much of a road surface imperfection to send you out of control. Not to mention the increased risk of brake fade and tyres failing. 

 

*Nürburgring open day, before anyone starts trying to lecture. 

 

The speed differential definitely pays a big role - probably more so than the actual speed.  As someone else who has driven regularly in Germany (and other countries in Europe), I certainly wouldn't want to see higher speed limits in the UK as the standard of driving is not high enough, and people simply aren't aware enough of what is going on around them.  In Germany, you certainly have to be aware of both what is going on in front and behind, changing lanes in to the path of a fast moving car is never a good move.  Many people forget that doing 120 towards the back of a truck that is doing 50 is the same as doing 70 towards a brick wall.  Annoyingly last time I went to Germany, I had to stop not long after I got on the Autobahn and find a tyre fitter, as my front wheels which were balanced fine for 70-80 mph were giving me a lot of vibration around 100, possibly dangerous but certainly uncomfortable, and wear and tear that I don't need on my suspension.

 

As Jenny says, most normal cars simply aren't up to very high speeds, even if the drivers are (or think so).  My current car feels fine up to around 110, after that it feels a bit skittish over imperfect surfaces, plus it just becomes too uneconomical to cruise for hour after hour at much more, there has to be a balance between benefit and cost.  My last car ran out of puff around a comfortable 100.  I took a Jaguar S-Type around the Nurburgring, but was too busy being scared to death to be able to recite much about how well it handled!  Quite well though, I seem to remember.  

[jjb1970]

The problem with some cars is they ride and handle so well at speed and are very refined so there is no sense of speed. I've driven cars like the Mercedes E Class and BMW 5 Series at speeds way above 70mph on German autobahns and the absence of a sensation of speed is spooky. Very easy to drift higher if you don't use a speed limiter or keep an eye on the speedo.

[Wolseley]

Ever tried doing a ton* or more in a normal bog-standard family car?

 

 

Once and once only, about 45 years ago, at that age when we are inclined to do stupid things and not think of the consequences.  It got a bit too scary as speedometer climbed past 90, and I applied the brakes at that point, as I could tell that my control over the car was rapidly disappearing.  The car in question was a 1969 Holden Premier (with the 3 litre six, not the V8).  I'm not sure now, but I think the maximum speed was somewhere in the region of 105 to 110 mph.

[Enterprisingwestern]

The problem with some cars is they ride and handle so well at speed and are very refined so there is no sense of speed. I've driven cars like the Mercedes E Class and BMW 5 Series at speeds way above 70mph on German autobahns and the absence of a sensation of speed is spooky. Very easy to drift higher if you don't use a speed limiter or keep an eye on the speedo.

 

Having unknowingly driven at 135mph on a british motorway in a Mercedes Benz, albeit some 30 years ago, I can echo those comments.

 

Mike.

[Horsetan]

Having unknowingly driven at 135mph on a british motorway in a Mercedes Benz, albeit some 30 years ago, I can echo those comments....

Another echo here. The E24 635CSi was another one capable of 130+ without appearing to break sweat. ZF auto gearbox too. That's why I picked up six points on the licence back in 2010. I've managed to shed those points and now never exceed 60. Besides, fuel economy games in a remapped diesel are considerable fun.