Driving standards

[Baby Deltic]

Sounds like dodgems, and there are enough people driving like they're driving dodgems!

You need the siren to sound so they know when to start and when to stop. Plus the smell of electric arcing, popcorn, etc for the full driving experience...

[chris p bacon]

You need the siren to sound so they know when to start and when to stop. Plus the smell of electric arcing, popcorn, etc for the full driving experience...

That would explain the Pikey hanging off the back ......

[Jol Wilkinson]

Talking of bits added to cars to take away people's ability to actually drive. My pet hate is ABS brakes. These remove the need for cacadance braking, but can in certain situations cause there own problems. Like if the road has a covering of loose stuff or slushy snow. In these situation locking up the front wheels can actually clear the surface enough to allow the rears to grip enough to slow/stop the vehicle. ABS will just kick in, and the result would be zero loss of speed and result in you twatting the car in front, ask me how I know this?

 

All modern cars have to have ABS fitted by law, and it has to be working or a MOT fail at test time. I still prefere my 1995 Nissan skyline GTS-T. It is basically a powerful rear wheel drive car, and the. Ly assistance the car does is the power steering. Everything else is upto you.

 

 

I think that ABS brakes do encourage bad driving by encouraging drivers to use their brakes excessively, this can be seen by the number of times you see brake lights coming on when braking should not be neccessary. Using the brakes to often does nothing for the fuel consumption either.

 

 

Even with (my bold for emphasis), or because of?

 

Make it easier for the driver and you make it easier for them to become distracted.  I respect experience and knowledge of the industry.  I also firmly believe that all learners should start on a manual in order to understand vehicle control and the concept of actually driving.  When they gain a full licence, or if we reach a time when there are no more manual-shift cars, then they can progress to automatics and perhaps - hopefully- be semi-skilled responsible drivers who understand the consequences of failing to obey a simple set of rules and who can manage most situations they are likely to face in the driving seat.

 

Learn on an automatic and all you learn is basic vehicle control, not "driving", in many cases.  You learn to rely on and trust the car to behave is it is programmed to to.  That isn't the most appropriate response in every situation.  It's nice to have power steering but that doesn't mean we could or should take corners faster.  It's good to have ABS but we still benefit from learning how a skid feels and how to safely control and get out of one.  And so on.

 

I am all for progress.  But also subscribe to the school of "Just because we can doesn't always make it right".  Progress must be tempered and defined by demonstrated need as much as by the development of technology.

 

What none of you seem to recognise is that getting people to drive "properly" is the nigh on impossible bit.

 

So governments, having largely abdicated themselves of action to deal with that, have left it to the car designers/manufacturers but have imposed legislation to control - to some degree - what they can/can't do.. The manufacturers also have vested commercial interests which, nowadays, means providing idiot proof desirable consumer products for idiots who believe they are geniuses (or is it genii?). As for expecting motorists to know what cadence braking does and how to use it, what isundersteer or oversteer and how to deal with it, etc. you have no chance.

 

Add to that the unwillingness of drivers to understand the need to behave responsibly, with consideration for others never mind themselves, puts us where we are today. The car is another fundamental part of peoples lives that they can't do without, want at the lowest running cost and can use with the minimum of inconvenience. For some it is a status symbol (so they buy something they don't know how to use properly).

 

So, what's the answer, other than assuming that how you drive is how very one else should do?

[New Haven Neil]

Policing.

[Baby Deltic]

That would explain the Pikey hanging off the back ......

Oh, I forgot the lucky heather

[MarkC]

Policing.

Agreed - and proper policing, not just speed cameras...

[Gwiwer]

 

 

assuming that how you drive is how very one else should do?

 

Personally I make no assumptions.  We are all unique individuals and as such every one of us will have a slightly different driving style.  I have had the good fortune to never (yet, in 42 years) have been involved in an incident of my making, nor have I ever (yet) received any form of penalty, demerit or any other infringement.  Does that make me a good driver?  That is not for me to judge.  I am not the driving police. 

 

There is no substitute for good professional driver training.  There is a place for informal coaching in addition to professional instruction but only on the understanding that "parental guidance" can and does pass on bad habits and untruths.  That should not be the case from a professional instructor.  Holding a driving licence remains a privilege and not a right.  And all it says is that for an hour or so on one day in your life you were competent (enough) to pass the test.  It never guarantees that you will be a safe, considerate and competent driver.  I am, incidentally, in favour of periodic retests and mandatory ones after any licence suspension or serious infringement.  I am aware that courts can and do order a re-test to be taken in certain cases.

[cheesysmith]

The problem is that the laws and the manufacturers are lowering car designs and features to the lowest common standards. You cannot by law buy a new car without ABS brakes, so if like me you don't like them, having had a accident that was actually caused by them, tough. And how many cars are now actually unbalanced or unstable without the electronics to control the cars handling? And all these electronics will have a date in the future where they become obsolescent and in doing so if they go wrong turn the whole car into scrap.

 

All I want in a car is power steering (easier to park and can come with a quicker steering rack), maybe AC (cool air whilst driving is needed to keep you alert), a minimum of soft rubber bits between you and the wheels (this doesn't mean rock hard sporty suspension, I had a XR4x4 in the past, and with my past experience of ripping every single rubber suspension bush to shreds, I had them all changed for power flex polyurethane bushes. These were a LOT harder than normal, but also would outlive the car. Everyone who tried it said it was actually more comfortable than the standard, because removing the excess slack in the suspension allowed the springs/dampers to work as they were designed), and electric window. Nice bits to have, going by past experience, are heated front windscreen, folding electric mirrors, and frameless doors. The last two are so useful for parking in tight spots.

[Enterprisingwestern]

When people realise it's a privilege to drive and not a right, then maybe, just maybe, standards might start to improve?

 

Mike.

[Kickstart]

Hi

 

ABS is an odd one. One thing it does manage is to brake each side of the car depending on the available grip on that side. Something a driver can't do, and useful on back lanes where mud on one side only of the riad is common.

 

Brake use does seem to be getting excessive. Not sure if i actyally react to brake lights now as them flashing on is so common it has become just a visual white noise. But then various driving and riding groups now seem to encourage lightly using the brakes when just using engine braking just to illuminate the brake lights to let people know you are slowubg. Personally think this is counter productive

 

All the best

 

Katy

[jjb1970]

While ABS isn't infallible (especially in winter as noted), on the whole I think that for most of the people most of the time it is a huge improvement over what we had before ABS.

 

Something I would say with respect to this thread is that yes there are plenty of bad drivers out there, but I have to say that most of the drivers I see around me drive well enough, obey the rules of the road (well, OK, I see a lot of drivers going over 70 on motorways) and that we need to keep things in perspective. Things aren't as bad as we might sometimes think.

[Horsetan]

...All I want in a car is power steering (easier to park and can come with a quicker steering rack), maybe AC (cool air whilst driving is needed to keep you alert), a minimum of soft rubber bits between you and the wheels (this doesn't mean rock hard sporty suspension...), and electric window. Nice bits to have, going by past experience, are heated front windscreen, folding electric mirrors, and frameless doors. The last two are so useful for parking in tight spots.

Bring back oleopneumatic suspension and DIRAVI steering. Also non-self-cancelling indicator switches, so drivers actually have to think about operating them.

[Guest]

 Also non-self-cancelling indicator switches, so drivers actually have to think about operating them.

 

Just leave it on. I'm sure you'll be turning that way again later.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Bring back oleopneumatic suspension and DIRAVI steering. Also non-self-cancelling indicator switches, so drivers actually have to think about operating them.

 

All of which are on the CX I've been hanging my nose over, lord help me!

 

Mike.

[Ian Abel]

Just leave it on. I'm sure you'll be turning that way again later.

That of course assumes you ordered turn-signals (indicators) when you purchased your car.

As best I can tell, at least here in the US, they are apparently an optional extra, at least for all the Chelsea tractors, the soccer-mum drivers I encounter, have purchased!   

Edited April 11, 2017 by Ian Abel

[peanuts]

Bring back oleopneumatic suspension and DIRAVI steering. Also non-self-cancelling indicator switches, so drivers actually have to think about operating them.

dont give BMW driver anymore excuses not to use them 

[kevinlms]

Bring back oleopneumatic suspension and DIRAVI steering. Also non-self-cancelling indicator switches, so drivers actually have to think about operating them.

How does the story go? Something like "I don't use the indicators, because there is no signal, for the move I intend to make"!

 

Perhaps there is a demand for a special indicator and unique sound for, "I intend to use the grass verge"!

[Pete the Elaner]

Not quite ,

 The National speed limit is 30mph unless otherwise signed.  although in country areas you could for miles without see the black bar sign....

It is more complicated than that.

 

According to https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits , the national speed limit FOR A BUILT UP AREA is 30mph, but there is no definition given for 'built up area'. Street lights are usually accepted as indicating a built up area.

The 'black bar sign' indicates that the national speed limit applies, but this varies according to what type of vehicle you are driving & what type of road you are driving on.

For a car or motorcycle, these are 30 for built up area, 60 for a single carriageway road & 70 for a dual carriageway/motorway. I was horrified at how few people knew this when I did a speed awareness course. Most know the first & last but few know 60 & 70 for single/dual carriageways.

For a goods vehicle below 7.5T, the limits are different: 50 for a single carriageway road, 60 for a dual carriageway & 70 for a motorway, so be mindful of this when hiring a van to take the layout to a show.

 

There was a legal minimum distance for speed limit repeater signs but I understand this was repealed after someone escaped their sentence after proving that the repeaters were slightly too far apart in the area they got caught.

[Baby Deltic]

 

Perhaps there is a demand for a special indicator and unique sound for, "I intend to use the grass verge"!

Those ones have green lenses.

[Pete the Elaner]

How does the story go? Something like "I don't use the indicators, because there is no signal, for the move I intend to make"!

 

I think you mean "I don't indicate because I know where I'm going". I have heard that several times.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Pete the Elaner

[stewartingram]

Some manufacturers are now fitting a retractable blade across the front of the car and grass sensors so if you decide to use the grass verge, it automatically deploys and cuts the grass in front of you. Apparently it's better for fuel consumption especially when overtaking.

 

Do they stick a broom up the exhaust as well, so you can sweep up the clippings?

 

Stewart

[peanuts]

and the "steering wheel attendant of the year award "  goes to 

 

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/mohammed.zahir.33/videos/10154382612645965/

 

 

now i bet that was an interesting convo with his boss 

Edited April 11, 2017 by peanuts

[Guest]

Forget this self driving malarkey. Bouncing between crash barriers appears to work surprisingly well.

[Horsetan]

All of which are on the CX I've been hanging my nose over, lord help me!.

Exactly.

[Kickstart]

I thought indicators were used by some to lull those who want to cut them off into a false sense of security, so they would block the wrong side.

 

All the best

 

Katy