Driving standards

[Reorte]

When I worked (as a civvy) for my local Police, I had to take a Police driving test as part of the job involving moving Police cars. (I was NOT however classed as a Police driver, it was so that I could be put on their insurance). They actually taught me that if I was stationary at a red light or junction, and twos & blues came up behind, if the only way to ensure them a clear path was to go through, then I should do it (with the necessary caution etc of course). Having since done it on a few occasions I have always been thanked by the drivers.

 

Happened on my driving test (which was about the last thing I wanted!) IIRC I tried to shuffle a little out of the way without going over the line, think I touched the kerb doing that but didn't get marked down for doing so. In the end the ambulance went the other side of the traffic island.

[MJI]

There must have been a fault as the presence of your vehicle should have operated them. Unless it was a Reliant Robin, some detectors because they operate magnetically could not 'see' them because they used very little ferrous metal in their construction, aluminium engine block and fibreglass body.

 

Small motorbike

[TheQ]

There must have been a fault as the presence of your vehicle should have operated them. Unless it was a Reliant Robin, some detectors because they operate magnetically could not 'see' them because they used very little ferrous metal in their construction, aluminium engine block and fibreglass body.

No quite the same but in the days of RF speed cameras (ie before laser)  I was stopped by the police, while I was driving a Bedford CF ambulance converted to a motor caravan.

They stopped me because they couldn't get a reading (I was well under the limit anyway, I'd seen them miles off) what I didn't tell them was that all the front end of the CF under the fibreglass and in spare spaces around the engine was filled with R.A.M.    Radar Aborbant Materials (carbon containing foam) that I had left over from a job I had worked on.

It's fairly good at sound reduction as well, which is why I had fitted it!!

 

My motor scooter is enough to trigger the lights, if they have wires in the ground, I try to make sure I'm aligned with the radar detector on portable lights whether on the scooter or in a car.

[newbryford]

From what i have been told by police, in this situation they are meant to turn off the blues and twos and wait without intimidating the driver in front.

 

But whether this is a national rule or lical recommendation i do not know.

 

Drivers being prosecuted for jumping a red light to give way to an emergency vehicle is fairly common so i have a lot of sympathey for anyone who refuses to take the risk.

 

All the best

 

Katy

 

Our local ambulance drivers certainly turn off the sirens in traffic light queues - especially if near the front of the queue.

 

Happened on my driving test (which was about the last thing I wanted!) IIRC I tried to shuffle a little out of the way without going over the line, think I touched the kerb doing that but didn't get marked down for doing so. In the end the ambulance went the other side of the traffic island.

 

I had a discussion with our local driving test centre manager about this topic as it was located near to the major cross-town link about 1/4 mile from the fire station. It wasn't an unusual occurrence for an emergency vehicle to be on call during a driving test.

 

She took the view that if it was safe to edge forward to let the emergency vehicle through, then it would be acceptable. Legally correct - no. Morally correct - yes.

Edited February 8, 2017 by newbryford

[Coryton]

She took the view that if it was safe to edge forward to let the emergency vehicle through, then it would be acceptable. Legally correct - no. Morally correct - yes.

 

Unfortunately it seems to be not uncommon for people to be penalised based on the legal rather than moral interpretation. 

 

They stopped me because they couldn't get a reading (I was well under the limit anyway, I'd seen them miles off) what I didn't tell them was that all the front end of the CF under the fibreglass and in spare spaces around the engine was filled with R.A.M.    Radar Aborbant Materials (carbon containing foam) that I had left over from a job I had worked on.

It's fairly good at sound reduction as well, which is why I had fitted it!!

 

 

Horrible stuff!

 

Spend a day working in an antenna range lined with it and you are covered with black powder.

 

At least you don't get to see the inside of your lungs afterwards.

 

You can get a non foam version which doesn't shed black powder. But it really isn't cheap (and probably isn't much use for sound insulation).

Edited February 8, 2017 by Coryton

[royaloak]

Mmm, I suppose if someone dies as a result of your (in)action, then you're not going to know about it and therefore it's not your problem.

 

One thing that intrigues me is: if you sit there in future and refuse to move forward for a police vehicle because you want to avoid the three points and a fine, do you not risk being charged with obstruction of an officer in execution of his duty instead? Three points or a criminal record: difficult choice.

What does a red traffic light mean?

That was what they asked me in Court, it means stop full stop.

You cant ague with their logic and like they said, everyone could use that as an excuse.

[royaloak]

I had a discussion with our local driving test centre manager about this topic as it was located near to the major cross-town link about 1/4 mile from the fire station. It wasn't an unusual occurrence for an emergency vehicle to be on call during a driving test.

 

She took the view that if it was safe to edge forward to let the emergency vehicle through, then it would be acceptable. Legally correct - no. Morally correct - yes.

A Court only works to the letter of the law, morals dont get a look in.

[Coryton]

One thing that intrigues me is: if you sit there in future and refuse to move forward for a police vehicle because you want to avoid the three points and a fine, do you not risk being charged with obstruction of an officer in execution of his duty instead? Three points or a criminal record: difficult choice.

 

Thinking more about this, I would hope that failing to move because there is a police car behind you with flashing blue lights on wouldn't in itself count as obstruction of an officer.

 

If they instructed you to move past the red light then perhaps - but having been instructed to do so by a police officer, presumably you'd be in the clear.

 

Unless - as is currently being discussed in the level crossing stupidity thread - it's a flashing red light at a level crossing...

[royaloak]

When I worked (as a civvy) for my local Police, I had to take a Police driving test as part of the job involving moving Police cars. (I was NOT however classed as a Police driver, it was so that I could be put on their insurance). They actually taught me that if I was stationary at a red light or junction, and twos & blues came up behind, if the only way to ensure them a clear path was to go through, then I should do it (with the necessary caution etc of course). Having since done it on a few occasions I have always been thanked by the drivers.

 

Stewart

I was thanked by the driver, the Court had a different view.

 

I have since learnt that if an Emergency vehicle pulls up behind another vehicle and there isnt a legal way for them to get through the traffic they should turn off their sirens until the lights change so they are not intimidating drivers to break the law.

[royaloak]

Thinking more about this, I would hope that failing to move because there is a police car behind you with flashing blue lights on wouldn't in itself count as obstruction of an officer.

 

If they instructed you to move past the red light then perhaps - but having been instructed to do so by a police officer, presumably you'd be in the clear.

 

Unless - as is currently being discussed in the level crossing stupidity thread - it's a flashing red light at a level crossing...

Prove it!

Surely its the same as a rail passenger having an Advance ticket on the wrong train saying 'the man on the platform said it was okay'?

[Waverley West]

Prove it!

 

 

Surely not obeying a police officer's instructions would be a far riskier course of action?

Edited February 8, 2017 by Waverley West

[Coryton]

Prove it!

 

Hmmm.

 

It ought to be possible to work out who was in a police car at a certain place and time? More so than the "man on the platform".

 

I wouldn't fancy telling a policeman I was going to ignore a request to pass a red light in case he later claimed he'd never told me to.

[Guest]

Prove it!

Dashcam!

[Reorte]

I think that the police can direct drivers through red lights (but not level crossings, not sure about other types of prohibitive lights, such red closure crosses on the motorway).

[Horsetan]

Surely not obeying a police officer's instructions would be a far riskier course of action?

 

....which sort of goes back to my question about whether you would rather take the fine and points, or have the distinction (sic) of a criminal record.

[Waverley West]

....which sort of goes back to my question about whether you would rather take the fine and points, or have the distinction (sic) of a criminal record.

 

...and whether you would rather take a moral stance, not to mention the fine and points, or sit there abiding by the letter of the law and blocking an ambulance for as long as it takes the lights to change while feeling the waves of disapproval from drivers around you build, whether perceived or real.

 

In my case on Sunday, the lights never did change from red either. Fortunately, there was no ambulance behind me.

[Coryton]

I think that the police can direct drivers through red lights (but not level crossings, not sure about other types of prohibitive lights, such red closure crosses on the motorway).

 

Just had a quick look at the highway code on-line and it's not terribly informative.

 

I couldn't see anything saying that police could or couldn't instruct you to pass any kind of red light.

 

Again though, I think anybody questioning an instruction from a policeman would need to be pretty sure of their ground.

[Coryton]

I have since learnt that if an Emergency vehicle pulls up behind another vehicle and there isnt a legal way for them to get through the traffic they should turn off their sirens until the lights change so they are not intimidating drivers to break the law.

 

Hmmm. I know I haven't imagined fire engines with the siren on and blue lights flashing coming up behind a car at a red light and letting loose on the air horn until they moved out of the way.

 

Suppose the only way to let the fire engine through is to drive through the red light and onto the pavement? Can you get penalised twice over?

[royaloak]

Hmmm. I know I haven't imagined fire engines with the siren on and blue lights flashing coming up behind a car at a red light and letting loose on the air horn until they moved out of the way.

 

Suppose the only way to let the fire engine through is to drive through the red light and onto the pavement? Can you get penalised twice over?

Doesnt make what they did right though does it!

 

They wouldnt be the ones in Court and I think it fair to assume that any 'evidence' (traffic light cameras etc) would no longer be available.

 

What happens to other people doesnt change the fact that the law is quite clear on the matter, you do not go through a red light under your own authority under any circumstances and any Police Officer (notice how it is only a Police Officer and no other emergency service such as the previously mentioned Fire Brigade) requesting you to go through has to have a damn good reason to do so.

[TheQ]

On the industrial estate I work on, there is a police station. For years coppers have parked their private cars half on the road and half on the pavement. For the last week someone parked lorries entirely on the road there ( different ones each day).

Today police "do not park" traffic cones appeared along that stretch.

 

 

One for them and another for everyone else?

[Reorte]

On the industrial estate I work on, there is a police station. For years coppers have parked their private cars half on the road and half on the pavement. For the last week someone parked lorries entirely on the road there ( different ones each day).

Today police "do not park" traffic cones appeared along that stretch.

 

 

One for them and another for everyone else?

It looks like that, although one difference is that lorries are far more likely to damage the pavement, which won't be built to take their weight.

[royaloak]

On the industrial estate I work on, there is a police station. For years coppers have parked their private cars half on the road and half on the pavement. For the last week someone parked lorries entirely on the road there ( different ones each day).

Today police "do not park" traffic cones appeared along that stretch.

 

 

One for them and another for everyone else?

For ever it was thus.

It looks like that, although one difference is that lorries are far more likely to damage the pavement, which won't be built to take their weight.

He stated the lorries were parked entirely on the road just as every vehicle should be parked.

[Reorte]

For ever it was thus.

He stated the lorries were parked entirely on the road just as every vehicle should be parked.

So he did, so much for my reading ability.

[royaloak]

So he did, so much for my reading ability.

About as good as mine at times! 

[Coryton]

He stated the lorries were parked entirely on the road just as every vehicle should be parked.

 

So he did. I read it as entirely on the pavement too...