Driving standards

[TheQ]

A senior manager from tescos in charge of .COM home delivery vehicles, came to one store and read the riot act about damaging vehicles by not moving out  to avoid overhanging branches on the sides of roads.

To which the reply was they were driving down the centre of the roads, moving 2ft to the right would put them in the ditch the other side.

[Trevellan]

In most areas, I think, parking on pedestrian crossing zig zags and school markings  are the only places where parking is a criminal matter now

 

Interestingly, in my part of the world a police officer on a motorcycle recently spoke to a bus driver about being parked on zig-zags and told him to move on. The bus was actually calling at a marked bus stop which happens to be a major traffic objective (a college and leisure centre). This stop is also a timing point in the service registration and public timetable and is adjacent to a signalised pedestrian crossing. In the latter case, the proximity of the bus stop is actually a benefit, deterring individuals from crossing a busy road at a less safe location. Any attempt to relocate the stop would create more problems than it solved.

 

The stop in question is one of many which seem to clash with basic road safety principles and appear to be based on historic precedent. Some years ago I was routinely involved in site meetings to establish safe locations for new bus stops, back in the days when the police could afford experienced traffic officers as road safety advisors. Inevitably, certain locations are a compromise, but many of those in my current locale would never have been agreed.

 

While I can see the officer's viewpoint, it was unreasonable to pick on a bus driver simply trying to do his job. I have therefore advised colleagues that if police officers have concerns about bus stop locations they should be directed through official channels and any future interventions of a similar nature should be reported to the bus company. In fairness, few front line officers will be aware of timing points and the role of Traffic Commissioners. However, I felt the intervention was rather petty, especially given that local officers show little enthusiasm for prosecuting quite serious moving traffic offences, of which there are many on a daily basis.

[mezzoman253]

Remedy for those slow drivers you get stuck behind http://www.wimp.com/how-to-handle-slow-drivers/

 

Rob

[PhilJ W]

I was stuck behind two slow drivers this lunchtime, a pair of limosines returning from the cemetary, 20 mph on a busy main road where overtaking safely is impossible. The local undertakers concerned are well known for this having even received complaints from the local bus company. Their stock answer is they have to show respect for the dead, a bit of respect for the living would go down better.

[Horsetan]

I was stuck behind two slow drivers this lunchtime, a pair of limosines returning from the cemetary, 20 mph on a busy main road where overtaking safely is impossible. The local undertakers concerned are well known for this having even received complaints from the local bus company. Their stock answer is they have to show respect for the dead, a bit of respect for the living would go down better.

Eventually, it will be our turn.

[Baby Deltic]

Eventually, it will be our turn.

Not good to be late for One's own funeral though. The late, late Mr So-and-so......

[Tony_S]

I was stuck behind two slow drivers this lunchtime, a pair of limosines returning from the cemetary, 20 mph on a busy main road where overtaking safely is impossible. The local undertakers concerned are well known for this having even received complaints from the local bus company. Their stock answer is they have to show respect for the dead, a bit of respect for the living would go down better.

Phil,Have you ever had to wait for the horse drawn hearses that seem popular round here?

[newbryford]

Phil,Have you ever had to wait for the horse drawn hearses that seem popular round here?

 

Neigh...

[PhilJ W]

Phil,Have you ever had to wait for the horse drawn hearses that seem popular round here?

Yes indeed I have. A few months ago I was driving east along Clay Hill Road and coming up to Timberlog Lane mini roundabout there was one car in front of me. Waiting to come out of Timberlog Lane (on the left) was said horse drawn hearse. Instead of taking what was his right of way the doddery old fool in front of me signaled the hearse out together with the the inevitable long tail of traffic, at least 8 vehicles. To cap it all the d.o.f. then pulled into a car park about 10 metres beyond the junction. Fortunately there was an alternative route even though it was a couple of extra miles.

[Horsetan]

Not good to be late for One's own funeral though. The late, late Mr So-and-so......

The Verger wouldn't be happy.

[royaloak]

Eventually, it will be our turn.

But we will be dead so past caring!

[ianwales]

Hi

 

Dragging from the back of my memory, when the seatbelt laws were introduced there was a provision for delivery drivers making frequent stops to be exempt from putting the belt on due to the fact they were in and out of their vehicles at each stop, is this still the case? the reason for asking is that I sometimes help out the local newsagent doing a paper delivery and I stop every 20-30 yards or so.

 

Ian

[TheQ]

Hi

 

Dragging from the back of my memory, when the seatbelt laws were introduced there was a provision for delivery drivers making frequent stops to be exempt from putting the belt on due to the fact they were in and out of their vehicles at each stop, is this still the case? the reason for asking is that I sometimes help out the local newsagent doing a paper delivery and I stop every 20-30 yards or so.

 

Ian

This page has the rules

https://www.gov.uk/seat-belts-law/when-you-dont-need-to-wear-a-seat-belt

[kevinlms]

This page has the rules

https://www.gov.uk/seat-belts-law/when-you-dont-need-to-wear-a-seat-belt

Interesting about the taxi drivers, why are they exempt?

 

For the record, here are the equivalent rules for Victoria, Australia. A pioneer for seat belt laws.

 

https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/licences/medical-conditions-and-driving/exemptions-from-wearing-a-seatbelt-or-bicycle-helmet

 

 

Victoria adopted a LAW that seat belts had to be WORN, not just fitted, back in 1970.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt_legislation

[TheQ]

I think when they were setting the rules for taxi drivers they were thinking of Black Cab drivers in London, short distances, average London road speed 14MPH. Then in a black cab they have to turn in the seat to get the money off of the passenger.

Edited February 2, 2017 by TheQ

[Coryton]

I think when they were setting the rules for taxi drivers they were thinking of Black Cab drivers in London, short distances, average London road speed 14MPH. Then in a black cab they have to turn in the seat to get the money of the passenger.

 

A (non black cab) taxi driver once told me it was so they could make a quick getaway if a passenger turned violent!

 

Doesn't the same thing apply to coaches? (Adult) passengers have to wear seatbelts, but not the driver?

[cheesysmith]

The seat belt law for busses is simple. If they are fitted they have to be used. They are not required to be fitted but if they are they come under the same construction and use laws.

[Jenny Emily]

I was stuck behind two slow drivers this lunchtime, a pair of limosines returning from the cemetary, 20 mph on a busy main road where overtaking safely is impossible. The local undertakers concerned are well known for this having even received complaints from the local bus company. Their stock answer is they have to show respect for the dead, a bit of respect for the living would go down better.

 

My Will specifically includes the request that the Hearse driver puts his foot down and peels a bit of rubber. I hate dawdling unnecessarily, and it'll be over my dead body that I be in a dithering vehicle after I die. Oh, wait a minute...

 

Seriously though, my Will does request the Hearse to move at full road speed and not unnecessarily inconvenience other road users. I'm hoping that that clause is not needed for many decades to come though.

[Coryton]

The seat belt law for busses is simple. If they are fitted they have to be used. They are not required to be fitted but if they are they come under the same construction and use laws.

 

Not that simple.

 

Unless it's changed since the last time I looked, seatbelts are compulsory on busses and coaches for adults but not for children. Also, like a taxi, child seats are not required.

 

I have been told by coach drivers that they don't have to wear a seatbelt. It may or may not be true now and may or may not have been true at the time.

 

In my experience, passenger seatbelts on "stage carriage" coach services (i.e. not National Express and the like) are rarely used and on buses almost never.

[cheesysmith]

Seatbelts for children on busses wouldn't work because unless the law has changed a bus seat for two adults can carry three children. The seatbelt laws are simple, if fitted they must be used. IIRC in the uk it is the person responsible for the vehicle (the driver normally ) who is held responsible and can get points and\or fine.

[Coryton]

Seatbelts for children on busses wouldn't work because unless the law has changed a bus seat for two adults can carry three children. The seatbelt laws are simple, if fitted they must be used. IIRC in the uk it is the person responsible for the vehicle (the driver normally ) who is held responsible and can get points and\or fine.

 

I do not think that is true for buses and coaches.

 

Whoever write the law was sensible enough to realise that it is not reasonable to make a driver responsible for a coach (or even mini-bus) full of passengers. Therefore each adult passenger takes responsibility for themselves and this is why there is the anomaly of adults having to wear seatbelts and children not - the driver can't be responsible and there may be no other adult to take responsibility.

 

For school buses and coaches used on school trips I don't think the three-to-a-seat scheme is used any more. It's either two to a seat with a regular layout, or 2+3 with narrower seats, in both cases with seatbelts.

 

The law may not require coaches to be fitted with seatbelts or for children to use them, but school risk assessments will almost certainly require both. (Just as it's perfectly legal for a baby to travel in a taxi without a child seat, but the parent's personal risk assessment may well conclude that it's not a good idea).

[JDW]

Yep, that's pretty much it, if it is there, you must wear it.  For coaches, there must at least be signs telling people to wear them, the driver doesn't have to physically check everyone, I believe it is the passenger's responsibility to actually put it on.  As for seatbelts on buses, for passengers it is pointless - I see a lot of Stagecoach buses fitted with them, and no one ever uses them, even though they are being used on some fast roads and on routes shared with coaches (in which no one ever uses them either...).  That said, I think seatbelts for bus drivers is a terrible idea, certainly in urban areas, and it causes me more of a nuisance than anything.  It stops me stretching (some buses have ticket machines quite far away, you need to lean forwards a bit), I've had them snag as I've leant forwards a bit to turn the steering wheel going around a tight bend and stop me moving how I need to (at best irritating, at worst dangerous), and so often, they get twisted up and won't retract or pull when you first go to put them on, which means more faffing when you take over a bus.  Although I do sometimes wonder what some drivers do to get them in such a state!  Quite often drivers need to get up to extend the wheelchair ramp too, or (shock!) help passengers with an item of luggage.  On some of our buses, you can't even reach to pull the sun blind down or adjust your external mirror without taking your seatbelt off - imagine driving your car and having to stop to pull your sun visor down when you go around a corner (but don't get me started on having to switch the engine off before you can adjust your steering column, the gentleman above* will know to what I am referring!).  For coaches on the other hand, I'd rather have one, but then you're doing much higher speeds and moving around the cab a lot less.

 

Going back a few posts to bus stops, I can think of half a dozen off the top of my head where i have to stop illegally or dangerously - for example, where the stop and raised kerb is immediately at the end of pedestrian crossing zig-zag markings.  

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@57.1439431,-2.1693076,3a,75y,232.85h,85.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spOLFn3NexUs9fqBd7T4_gg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@57.1354488,-2.1402358,3a,75y,25.53h,74.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIUj9itTB4hJ3nt-pNA2APg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

or such equally stupid design as:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@57.1574226,-2.1098819,3a,75y,263.02h,64.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szUqQtMee_2JVEPwTN5KCIA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656which irritates me for being such a huge waste of the council's money to install a raised kerb, its in the middle of the marked bay, somewhere around the back wheel  if I could get in to it, but I can't because of the [fixed] bins right before it!  :-/

 

...aaaaand breathe...

 

 

 

* (I was referring to cheesysmith, who I believe works for the same company, but Coryton answered before I'd finished typing)

Edited February 2, 2017 by JDW

[TheQ]

Years ago driving down south on the M1 just south of Sheffield a hearse past me like I was standing still and I don't hang around. The hearse had a container lying in the back, but whether it was occupied I have no idea.  A few miles later the hearse was on the hard shoulder dead, bonnet up,  clouds of steam......

[newbryford]

The Verger wouldn't be happy.

 

Sssshhh. Don't mention the verge...

 

 

Oops - sorry, misread your post....

[SM42]

In terms of bus stops within zig zags, certain vehicles are exempt and that includes public service vehicles.

 

How a bus is more see through than a car though I'm not sure.

 

At a funeral some time ago, I was talking to the undertaker and the issue of slow progress came up. One of their clients had requested (obviously in advance) that they shouldn't hang about and at least 50mph where they could should be a minimum so as not to hold people up as he had found it so annoying being stuck behind a funeral.

 

Aparently the following mourners were well spread out across the 6 mile trip to the crematoreum

 

Andy

Edited February 2, 2017 by SM42