Driving standards

[Danemouth]

Of drunk drivers, take their licence away for good, no ifs, buts or maybe. Also on that subject I know of someone who was convicted of drunk driving though he was seated in the passenger seat, in fact passed out. I'm not saying yet how that came about but the wording of the actual offence gives you a clue, see if anyone has the answer.

 

Was he supposed to be supervising a learner driver?

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

[kevinlms]

Of drunk drivers, take their licence away for good, no ifs, buts or maybe.

Sadly, the fact that they don't have a licence, doesn't deter them. Just another offence, when they eventually get caught and so the cycle continues.

 

The other day, I was stopped for a random breath test & for good measure a drug test, the latter being a first for me. Licence still intact!

[PhilJ W]

Was he supposed to be supervising a learner driver?

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

Got it in one, what happened in fact he was teaching his girlfriend to drive and he had a skinfull one evening so he got the girlfriend to drive home. She got into a panic when he passed out and stalled the car on a busy junction and was still there half an hour later when the police arrived to find out what was causing the traffic hold up. They found the poor girl in tears and the 'instructor' snoring loudly. He not only lost his licence but his girlfriend as well. Fortunately she had not had a lot to drink so was not charged with anything.

[jjb1970]

There seems to be a lot more bullying in temporary speed restriction areas on motorways these days. I find it is now quite common in a 50mph restriction to find a truck or bus go almost bumper to bumper to try and force you to go above the 50 limit. And I'm not talking normal tail gating, but going right up to your tail.

[Baby Deltic]

There seems to be a lot more bullying in temporary speed restriction areas on motorways these days. I find it is now quite common in a 50mph restriction to find a truck or bus go almost bumper to bumper to try and force you to go above the 50 limit. And I'm not talking normal tail gating, but going right up to your tail.

I just stick the motor on cruise control and don't look in the mirror too much if they try to bully me. Its up to them to change lane and overtake if they want to go faster.

[jjb1970]

I try and ignore it and if they want past they can usually overtake unless the restriction is also a reduction to a single lane but it can be quite intimidating at night when they also start flashing headlights etc.

[Jenny Emily]

You can be done for being drunk in charge if you are in a vehicle with the means to start it up and move it even if you are asleep in the back seat. One precaution that myself and another trucker did when parking at a truck stop many years ago and having a few jars of a night was to swap keys. That way we had no means to start and move the vehicle we were asleep in. Coppers used to sometimes do the rounds of truckers parked up with a breatheliser for a few easy tickets.

 

I couldn't do that these days - I get a bad enough night's sleep in the bunk of a truck as it is. My days of tramping ended fifteen years ago.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Jenny Emily

[RFS]

jjb1970, on 06 Dec 2015 - 22:13, said:

There seems to be a lot more bullying in temporary speed restriction areas on motorways these days. I find it is now quite common in a 50mph restriction to find a truck or bus go almost bumper to bumper to try and force you to go above the 50 limit. And I'm not talking normal tail gating, but going right up to your tail.

 

Just got back from 4 weeks in Oz visiting family during which time we had a rental car.  The speed limits there are observed almost 100% and it's quite a different driving experience.  You can hog the outer lane on a multi-lane freeway, and as long as you are doing the maximum speed limit no-one tailgates, or overtakes on the inside.  Quite eerie really, compared to the UK!

[newbryford]

There seems to be a lot more bullying in temporary speed restriction areas on motorways these days. I find it is now quite common in a 50mph restriction to find a truck or bus go almost bumper to bumper to try and force you to go above the 50 limit. And I'm not talking normal tail gating, but going right up to your tail.

 

I think that part of the problem is caused by car speedos generally reading on the low side. Truck tachometers (and associated speedo) will be very accurate, because they have to be. Therefore they will try to do a "true" 50mph.

My 2015 built Fiesta has a slighty low speedo. An indicated 50 is about 47/48mph according to a GPS measuring device.

 

Secondary consideraion - just because "everyone" is supposed to do 50, seems to promote a "I'm doing what I think is 50 and you're not overtaking me, so I'm not pulling over a lane for you" mentality. There is nothing forcing you to go over 50, pull over and let them be caught speeding.

 

Third factor - IMO - is cruise control. Because of the perceived allowance for slight speeding discrepancies, I know of drivers that set the cruise to 52/53mph in 50mph restricted zones.

 

Chees,

Mick

[peanuts]

I think that part of the problem is caused by car speedos generally reading on the low side. Truck tachometers (and associated speedo) will be very accurate, because they have to be. Therefore they will try to do a "true" 50mph.

My 2015 built Fiesta has a slighty low speedo. An indicated 50 is about 47/48mph according to a GPS measuring device.

 

Secondary consideraion - just because "everyone" is supposed to do 50, seems to promote a "I'm doing what I think is 50 and you're not overtaking me, so I'm not pulling over a lane for you" mentality. There is nothing forcing you to go over 50, pull over and let them be caught speeding.

 

Third factor - IMO - is cruise control. Because of the perceived allowance for slight speeding discrepancies, I know of drivers that set the cruise to 52/53mph in 50mph restricted zones.

 

Chees,

Mick

also factor in the fact that all tachograph fitted vehicles are banned from the outside lane of a three lane motorway or dual carriageway and you will find nothing more frustrating than being stuck in the middle lane behind some bnumpty pottering along at 45 next to another numpty doing the same in lane one oblivious to what is going on around them as they stare wild eyes waiting for thier speedo needle to creep upto 51 so they can touch the brakes .and breath

[Baby Deltic]

I usually set my cruise slightly over the limit to take into account the low reading speedo with the exception of 30mph limits.

[kevinlms]

Just got back from 4 weeks in Oz visiting family during which time we had a rental car.  The speed limits there are observed almost 100% and it's quite a different driving experience.  You can hog the outer lane on a multi-lane freeway, and as long as you are doing the maximum speed limit no-one tailgates, or overtakes on the inside.  Quite eerie really, compared to the UK!

Depends whereabouts in Oz, some do speed. Certainly in Victoria, people DO overtake on the inside, but it isn't illegal.

 

But what you have to remember is that the monetary penalty for speeding is quite high.

 

In some states, notably NSW, they have 'double demerit points' on long weekends or holiday periods. Since you only have available 12 demerit points for a 3 year period, how many would you want to lose at once? Once you exceed 12, you're automatically disqualified for 3 months (you can go to court to appeal - good luck on that, I suspect! I don't intend to find out). Or apply for a 'good behaviour period', but if you stuff that up, you get suspended for longer!

 

https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/licences/demerit-points-and-offences/demerit-points/changes-to-the-demerit-point-scheme

 

http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/safety-rules/demerits/

 

 

Note different demerit points apply to learners & young drivers.

 

Once while waiting to cross a road, I saw a learner go through a red light - flash goes the camera! I knew that the next intersection a few hundred metres away, also had a camera, sure enough FLASH!

 

So much for him, 3 points for each red light and maybe speeding. So 6 points at least & only allowed 4, so suspended before he has even received a licence!

[Horsetan]

I thought it was Victoria that was incredibly tight on enforcement of limits?

[kevinlms]

I thought it was Victoria that was incredibly tight on enforcement of limits?

 

You mean this listing? A monetary unit is currently $152, times its multiplication value, for each offence.

 

https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/~/media/files/documents/safety-and-road-rules/201516_regulated_penalties.ashx?la=en

 

And for good measure, if you have any money left!

 

https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/~/media/files/documents/safety-and-road-rules/listofvicroadsfees201516.ashx?la=en

 

 

Oh, perhaps you mean the thresholds? Can't find that at present, I've always had problems finding it, on the VicRoads website.

[jjb1970]

I think that part of the problem is caused by car speedos generally reading on the low side. Truck tachometers (and associated speedo) will be very accurate, because they have to be. Therefore they will try to do a "true" 50mph.

My 2015 built Fiesta has a slighty low speedo. An indicated 50 is about 47/48mph according to a GPS measuring device.

 

Secondary consideraion - just because "everyone" is supposed to do 50, seems to promote a "I'm doing what I think is 50 and you're not overtaking me, so I'm not pulling over a lane for you" mentality. There is nothing forcing you to go over 50, pull over and let them be caught speeding.

 

Third factor - IMO - is cruise control. Because of the perceived allowance for slight speeding discrepancies, I know of drivers that set the cruise to 52/53mph in 50mph restricted zones.

 

Chees,

Mick

The speedo accuracy point is not correct. The allowable deviation for HGV speedometers is different and there are re-calibration requirements but the allowable deviation is still quite significant and an allowable deviation is a completely different concept to instrument accuracy. The fact that a car speedo has a wider allowable deviation on the side of reading high (but not low) doesn't say anything about the standard of accuracy implemented by the manufacturer. And reading speed accurately is not as simple as it may appear unless you actually measure speed over ground as opposed to calculating from shaftline speed or averaging speed between GPS positions. Both of those techniques are subject to variables.

 

That said, even if a car speedo does read a lot higher than a truck speedo (my estimate is that 50mph on both my wife's car and my car speedo is about 48 however both have relatively fresh tyres) it does not excuse the sort of aggressive behaviour which seems to be becoming more common. I'm quite happy to let people past in normal conditions but it is difficult to pull over in a contra-flow and the difference in time to go through a typical motorway short speed restriction is trivial. Ultimately speed limits are not advisories, they're mandatory and the speedometer is the instrument a driver has to indicate speed.

Edited December 7, 2015 by jjb1970

[Kickstart]

And reading speed accurately is not as simple as it may appear unless you actually measure speed over ground as opposed to calculating from shaftline speed or averaging speed between GPS positions. Both of those techniques are subject to variables.

GPS units normally gives a speed reading based on the doppler effect on the GPS signals.

 

All the best

 

Katy

Edited December 7, 2015 by Kickstart

[Jenny Emily]

The differences in what speedos read can be quite pronounced. My old Volvo 740 was doing about 65 when the speedo said 70. It meant that the fuel economy figures calculated from its odometer made it seem more economical than it really was. Perhaps this is the main reason that car speedos under read by so much more?

 

I've often noticed that when my lorry is doing 56, I still get overtaken by other lorries doing apparently closer to 60 however I doubt that their speedos are telling their driver that they are doing any more than 56. The old trick to get an extra turn of speed was to send a truck for calibration on nearly worn out tyres so that when they were swapped out for fresh rubber the wheel diameter could be a couple of inches more hence the truck would go faster on the open road whilst its tachograph still recorded no more than 56.

 

My other half's brand new Nissan Micra does a couple of miles an hour less to its indicated speed compared to my Volvo 850. I know, having driven both past the same electronic roadside sign that tells you your speed in a 30 zone. The Nissan manages to appear to be doing 34 to get the electronic sign to read 30 whereas the Volvo manages the same at an indicated 32.

[PhilJ W]

I have driven three different transit minibuses each fitted with a speed limiter supposedly set at 100 kph (63 mph), one would bare do 60 mph, one was pretty much spot on and one could reach almost 70 mph.

[Kickstart]

The differences in what speedos read can be quite pronounced. My old Volvo 740 was doing about 65 when the speedo said 70. It meant that the fuel economy figures calculated from its odometer made it seem more economical than it really was. Perhaps this is the main reason that car speedos under read by so much more?

Over reading speedo and odometer don't always go together.

 

Years ago we had an Alfa 155, and on that the speedo read about 35mph at a genuine 30mph (high accuracy GPS unit), but at a true 80mph it would indicate about 86mph. So not a fixed percentage over.

 

Mind you, on a long journey on a hot day it would suddenly start reading accurately.

 

All the best

 

Katy

[Trevellan]

There seems to be a lot more bullying in temporary speed restriction areas on motorways these days. I find it is now quite common in a 50mph restriction to find a truck or bus go almost bumper to bumper to try and force you to go above the 50 limit. And I'm not talking normal tail gating, but going right up to your tail.

 

As someone with PCV and LGV entitlement, I would never condone tailgating. However, I have been in situations where I have set a truck's cruise control to 50mph and have had to keep lowering the figure because of over-cautious motorists (42mph in one notable case). Whenever I'm in my car in similar circumstances I often use lorries to check my speed, because I know their cruise control will be more accurate than mine.

[coachmann]

Not driving standards so much as lowering of standards. i recall Tractors and other slow moving vehicles were barred from the Abergele Bye-pass. In later years it became just another section of the new A55 Expressway and it seems such vehicles are no longer barred.  Two lanes of fast moving cars squeezing into one to go around a slow moving tractor is asking a bit much and someone suffered yesterday. I was in traffic held up when both carriageways were closed while a fleet of ambulances, police and a helicopter sorted things out.

Edited December 9, 2015 by coachmann

[Happy Hippo]

The A55 has some odd 'rules' applied.

 

The section through Colwyn Bay being off limits to learner drivers for some reason although for some of it the speed limit is 50 mph!

[MJI]

I overtook a car today in a 30 without going over the speed limit.

 

Wide, good visibility, would not go over about 22, queue was JUST starting to build behind me.

 

If I had not passed I reckon I would have been late for work

[stewartingram]

Should have left earlier then!

 

Stewart

[jjb1970]

As someone with PCV and LGV entitlement, I would never condone tailgating. However, I have been in situations where I have set a truck's cruise control to 50mph and have had to keep lowering the figure because of over-cautious motorists (42mph in one notable case). Whenever I'm in my car in similar circumstances I often use lorries to check my speed, because I know their cruise control will be more accurate than mine.

I can see the logic in this but it is based on two assumptions, one is that the truck is not speeding and the second is that the truck speed control is more accurate than that of a car. Neither is a safe assumption to make IMO. Whilst the speedo and cruise control in my car is not completely accurate it seems to be reasonable (like I say, my estimate is that at an indicated 50 I am doing 48) and I'm pretty sure some of the trucks passing me are north of 50.