Driving standards

[Arthur]

 

 .......

am I making sense yet or should I give up and go do some modelling?

. No, I follow what you're saying, I just think it's making too much of this 'isolated from the road conditions' theme. I'm not sure that many drivers notice one way or the other either.

 

And, even if it were truer than I believe, what is your answer? Either we live with the 'isolation' of modern cars or we reintroduce 70's technology.

 

Do some modelling!!, what sort of forum do you think this is?!

[Guest]

I'd get onto those no-win no-fee types if I were you. Hurty neck? That's worth at least one 'bag of sand'.

Nothing worth bothering with really and all very amicably done. Also it was six years ago

 

What really annoyed me was the bloke in front of me. He'd already established his quality German car driver stereotype by earlier zooming past me in a 30 limit. And when I'd rather heroically managed to not hit him while bouncing off the Passat did he bother to stop and see if everyone was OK?

 

No.

[MJI]

There is a difference betwen driver skill and being a safe driver, but a safe driver does need a decent enough amount of skill.

 

I do rate most Traffic Police for both, but racing drivers are not necessary that safe (when on roads)

[Baby Deltic]

Nothing worth bothering with really and all very amicably done. Also it was six years ago :)What really annoyed me was the bloke in front of me. He'd already established his quality German car driver stereotype by earlier zooming past me in a 30 limit. And when I'd rather heroically managed to not hit him while bouncing off the Passat did he bother to stop and see if everyone was OK?No.

I'm sick to the back teeth of Audi drivers. Not all, but most drive like aggressive a*seholes.

[newbryford]

I shall cast the stone then.

 

 

. Most driving instructors are not in fact even qualified, but trainees themselves (yes, I AM serious unfortunately). They can "instruct" for years before having to take their own exams- the only difference is that they have a different coloured badge in the car (green instead of orange IIRC) which they no longer even need to show.

 

 

 

And I shall throw it back.

 

Where do you come out with "most instructors are not qualified" ?  Before anyone is allowed to take payment (in cash or in kind) for driving instruction, they have to complete a minimum of 40 hours training with a qualified Approved Driving Instructor (ADI), then they can apply for a trainee licence (more details here). The trainee badge only lasts for 6 months and it is pink - not orange. A full ADI "badge" is green. BSM regularly used to have PDI/pink badge instructors, but as the tests to become an ADI have become more stringent, I rarely see a pink badge and on average I visit my local driving test centre about every week........

 

If anyone is taking payment for lessons and is not a trainee or ADI, then it is against the law. The DVSA are always keen to learn of so-called "instructors" fraudulently charging for services. If you see any, please do not be afraid to report them. The relevant badge has to be displayed at all times whilst given paid instruction.

 

The current pass rate for passing all three exams to become a fully qualified ADI is just over 30%. Many fail the driving test (Part2). I think the relevant statistic is about a 55% pass rate.

 

For info - to become an ADI, you need to pass a theory test (different from the normal learner test) with 100 questions and IIRC, a 95% pass rate is needed. You can take this test as many times as you like until you pass.

 

Once part 1 is passed, then you can apply for a part 2 test - this is a driving test carried out in a similar fashion to a normal Cat B learner test, but involves more manoeuvres, possibly motorways and lasts a lot longer than a normal test. Obviously the pass standard is higher than a normal test.

 

Then onto part 3 - the test of teaching ability - where an examiner performs a role play as a driver - learner as well as "experienced" and you have to be able to identify, analyse and rectify their errors.

 

If you fail either part 2 or part 3, three times, then you have to wait two years before you can apply to start the process again.

 

Not something that anyone is simply going to do in a couple of months.

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited August 10, 2015 by newbryford

[Guest]

I'm sick to the back teeth of Audi drivers. Not all, but most drive like aggressive a*seholes.

It was the other quality German motor car that time

[Pacific231G]

 

Let the perfect driver be the one to cast the first stone!

 

Mike

I shall cast the stone then.

 

 

I manage a transport company and am very strict with driving standards for my staff, as you would expect. Recently we had a recruitment drive and advertised for qualified commercial drivers and trainee drivers with just a car licence. About 1/4 of them didn't even make it through the driving test in a small company runabout, let alone a large commercial vehicle.

 

Derek

I assume your tongue is in your cheek because I don't believe that anyone could seriously believe that they are a "perfect" driver.

If that were true then the following statements would a priori also be true. 

1 You have nothing more to learn about driving; if that were not true then your knowledge would not be complete and therefore not perfect.

2. Anyone who criticized your driving in any way would quite simply be wrong; even if they were the most experienced advanced instructor or police driver in the country they would have to be wrong because a "perfect" driver would be beyond criticism. 

 

(I wonder why the phrase "This ship is unsinkable" comes to mind?)

 

Sadly; looking at the general standards of transport drivers, I'm not sure that I would expect their companies  to be "very strict" about driving standards so I'm glad to know that yours is. Amongst the worst easily identifiable offenders round here seem to be those driving for Royal Mail. I've learnt to give them a very wide berth.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Pacific231G

[newbryford]

It really isn't the instructor who sets the standards .

 

 

The litmus test ultimately is....does the pupil pass the driving test?

 

Where poorly trained instructors show themselves up with is  their pass rate. A poorly taught pupil will not pass the driving test.

 

I have clicked agree, but my local SE ADI wouldn't...............

 

"Pass rate can vary with a number of factors, socio-economic being a prime example - the real standard is the grade achieved on the Standards check test." (TBH - I don't believe that as I hate dislike the check test with a passion. Having a SE in the back makes me forget things!)

 

There are however instructors who simply teach their pupils how to drive to pass a test and nothing more - I strive to do more than that and cover a lot more topics, mainly biased towards attitude on the road - theirs and other drivers.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Baby Deltic]

It was the other quality German motor car that time

Oh I see.

[Baby Deltic]

One accronym a driving instructor mentioned at a speed awareness course after my first (and hopefully last) driving offence was COAST. This has been burned into my mind. Nicked for doing 79 on a dual carriageway!

 

Concentration

Observation

Anticipation

Space

Time

[jjb1970]

A few years ago my employer had a H&S initiative where they paid for us to attend crash courses, the courses offered to nicked drivers. They paid for one of the service providers of these courses to do them specially for staff, the people were from the police service, fire and rescue service and health service. I think it is the best H&S initiative I've ever seen and it had a permanent affect on my driving habits. I never was a fast driver (and I'm not saying that in a holier-than-thou way hopefully, I always have tried to stay within speed limits) but after the course I did have a changed outlook on driving and it has stayed with me for about 6 years since doing the course.

[newbryford]

A few years ago my employer had a H&S initiative where they paid for us to attend crash courses, the courses offered to nicked drivers. They paid for one of the service providers of these courses to do them specially for staff, the people were from the police service, fire and rescue service and health service. I think it is the best H&S initiative I've ever seen and it had a permanent affect on my driving habits. I never was a fast driver (and I'm not saying that in a holier-than-thou way hopefully, I always have tried to stay within speed limits) but after the course I did have a changed outlook on driving and it has stayed with me for about 6 years since doing the course.

 

And after 6 years you were nicked for speeding............

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Baby Deltic]

And after 6 years you were nicked for speeding............

 

Cheers,

Mick

And there lies the problem. You can be driving like a saint 99.9% of the time, and being over careful watching your speed, and on the 0.1% occasion when you slip up, its in front of a speed camera!

[jjb1970]

I'm proud to say I've never had a speeding ticket nor any other motoring offences. A lot of that is luck in that when I have had those moments where you do something silly I've got away with it but a lot of it is that if you don't speed you won't get a speeding ticket. However, like I say I really do think there is too much emphasis on speeding to the expense of bad habits which I think cause far more crashes.

[Baby Deltic]

I'm proud to say I've never had a speeding ticket nor any other motoring offences. A lot of that is luck in that when I have had those moments where you do something silly I've got away with it but a lot of it is that if you don't speed you won't get a speeding ticket. However, like I say I really do think there is too much emphasis on speeding to the expense of bad habits which I think cause far more crashes.

Indeed. I have always been religious about my speed when the road sign is white with a red ring around it because its there for a very good reason, especially if its got a yellow background which means the road has a history of KSI's. Cruise control is very useful for keeping your speed in order especially if used in conjunction with 3rd gear in 30 limits. On dual carriageways, most drivers assume that 80 is acceptable but, based on my own experience getting done at 10% +2, this is clearly not always the case and should not be assumed. I have set my speed warning at 77mph in case I 'forget myself' on a dual carriageway again. I think most police forces are now enforcing a 10% policy, so 34 in a 30 will get you nicked. Certainly drivers are less courteous nowadays and seem to be in a rush to get everywhere.

[Happy Hippo]

A few years ago my employer had a H&S initiative where they paid for us to attend crash courses, t

 

 

And what did you crash?

 

Pray tell?

[kevinlms]

Ah the wheel changing spots!

 

As if they thought I would change an offside wheel on the hard shoulder when there was a little parking place 100m up the road.

I posted a link a few months back of a retard, who decided to change his flat tyre, in the middle lane of a 5 lane 100kmh section of freeway in Melbourne. Now THAT takes some beating for a suicide mission.

[Re6/6]

On a lighter note, returning from RailWells there was an accident on the M5 which caused great delays and one of the DRAG vehicles had been stationary for 20 minutes in the middle lane when the bloke in the car in front got out 'because he had to' and ran down the embankment etc.. Well it was obvious what happened next. His lady clambered over to the driving seat and started to drive on so as not to cause a further delay.

 

In the rear view mirror there was the sight of this chap running along the hard shoulder to catch up! 

 

A question of law here...no pedestrians on the motorway...could he have been prosecuted?..... 

Edited August 11, 2015 by Re6/6

[alastairq]

All this chatter about old cars, and how differently they drove, reminds me of my recent trip to Norfolk for a break...I took my Dellow.....it is capable of around 70 mph for short spells..[not sure who gives up first, the car at those revs, or my ears?]....with 50-55 mph a reasonable cruising speed.

 

Trouble is, it's a narrow track [Ford Pop running gear]....shortish wheelbase, so incredibly twitchy on today's roads.

 

Folk have no idea how lucky they are, driving modern cars where trillions of dollars have been spent developing suspension & steering that doesn't react to the slightest edge on the tarmac.

 

One doesn't realise how poor our road surfaces really are, until one tries pressing on in a Dellow.

 

It's not about busted tarmac, or holes...its about the ridges & ruts not normally noticed by modern cars.

 

Makes life for the driver very focused, if one is not going to dart into the hedgerow at a moments notice.

 

Cornering is a delight, however, done properly.

 

And it is how I can shake off those who insist on trying to read who made my rear number plate.....on the bendy bits, I could leave them standing....almost.  

[Baby Deltic]

I have to admit that driving my first Mondeo after having had a 2 litre Sierra without PAS was a delight. You really noticed how much PAS takes a load off of you arms. Mark 2 Escorts were pretty twitchy with rear leaf springs and drum brakes.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Baby Deltic

[Rivercider]

A observation about mobile phone/texting not hands free.

 

On my way home from work I call in to my mums first floor flat where we sit in the lounge with a good view of the main road outside,

while having a cup of tea I notice the passing traffic and the likelyhood of who is phoning hands free.

 

Out of every 10 instances I would say there are

2  - male lorry drivers

3 - male white van/delivery drivers

1 - male car driver

and perhaps surprisingly

4 - female, mostly young, drivers 

 

cheers

[hayfield]

Last night whilst going up a hill with parked cars dotted either side of the road a very nice lady (40's or older) driver gave me the right of way, exactly as my dad instructed me to give way to those going up a hill. There are considerate drivers out there,

 

Are youngsters taught road driving manners/etiquette these days ? More like there is a gap so jump into it.

 

As for the previous thread, I guess Facebook is more important than what's ahead of you. Every night I see young females and white van men constantly on their phones.   

[PhilJ W]

I have to admit that driving my first Mondeo after having had a 2 litre Sierra without PAS was a delight. You really noticed how much PAS takes a load off of you arms. Mark 2 Escorts were pretty twitchy with rear leaf springs and drum brakes.

Fourteen years ago I took a fortnights break in Malta, while I was there I hired a small car, a Dawoo IIRC. This despite being a micro-car had PAS. When I got home I went to drive my car, a Nissan Prairie, which did not have PAS and nearly hit the brick wall opposite my drive!

[Black Sheep]

. No, I follow what you're saying, I just think it's making too much of this 'isolated from the road conditions' theme. I'm not sure that many drivers notice one way or the other either.

 

And, even if it were truer than I believe, what is your answer? Either we live with the 'isolation' of modern cars or we reintroduce 70's technology.

 

Do some modelling!!, what sort of forum do you think this is?!

As of this morning I have a scuff on my bike jacket from a woman in a brand new range river evoque who continued to move into my lane on the motorway (lane 3) having come right across from the slip road despite my horn being held down and me braking as much as i dare with a transit sniffing my tail pipes did she notice?

 

If she did she pretended not to by looking dead ahead.

 

Wider pillars to give better roll I've strength, better insulation to remove road noise

=

Bigger blind spots and less able to hear what's around with drivers refusing to use their other senses to compensate or even use their eyes.

 

With older cars you could hear more of what was going on around you, you could see more from your default driving position, modern cars you need to move more to ensure you see

Edited August 11, 2015 by Black Sheep

[Guest]

Definitely a case of style over function on the Evoque's letterbox windows.

 

Though it sounds like she wouldn't have noticed you even if she was driving a greenhouse.