Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[NZRedBaron]

On 26/04/2024 at 19:37, MarkC said:

Um, the J26 & J27 (NER P2 & P3) weren't fitted with continuous brakes - for a genuine mixed traffic 0-6-0 you should look at the J21 (NER Class C). For a bigger mixed traffic loco then the B16 (NER Class S3) would be on the wish list, but getting one of those to run RTR, with the restricted clearances behind the cylinders for the bogie, is quite problematic, I think.

 

Mark

Fair enough; an RTR J21 and a D20 then, to give the NER a full set; maybe add a C7 to the list also?

 

Just a pity that the B16 sounds like it'd be such a pig to get right- I love how the /1 type looks.

Edited May 8 by NZRedBaron

[mikemeg]

19 hours ago, NZRedBaron said:

 

Just a pity that the B16 sounds like it'd be such a pig to get right- I love how the /1 type looks.

 

And so do I, which is why I did the test build of the LRM B16/1 kit twice. Without wishing to restart the debate as to how good (or bad) this kit is, I think I managed to convey something of the essence of these classic North Eastern 4-6-0's. I certainly enjoyed the challenge!!

 

And the two photos are different; look at the dome position on each picture - it differs - as do a few other minor details. One has its original NER boiler, the other the later LNER boiler. Also, the splashers are different, etc.

 

Somewhere else, within this thread, I referred to my first loco spotting trip  to York, in October of 1958; over sixty years ago. We saw thirty B16's (of all three variants) that day; almost half of the class. That same day, we also saw some forty of the LNER's (and BR's) Pacifics.

 

Happy days, now long lost in the mists of time.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 9 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

On 08/05/2024 at 10:31, Chas Levin said:

 

Hello Mike, when it's finished, may we please see a pic or two of the CLC van, partly to see the markings?

 

Hi Chas,

 

Yes, no problem. I've just checked the relevant HMRS transfer sheet - LNER Freight Markings - and it does contain all of the necessary markings for the Cheshire Lines Committee. As all of my models are set around mid 1950, then I can just about get away with much of the stock, freight and passenger, still sporting its pre-nationalisation liveries, albeit often in a tired and weatherworn condition!

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited May 9 by mikemeg

[jwealleans]

49 minutes ago, mikemeg said:

As all of my models are set around mid 1950, then I can just about get away with much of the stock, freight and passenger, still sporting its pre-nationalisation liveries, albeit often in a tired and weatherworn condition!

 

Brake vans are about all you can get away with like that: all the rest of the stock was divided between the LMS and LNER in 1929 and repainted/renumbered into their wagon stock.  I run a CL van on Grantham and that's an anachronism in the 1935-38 period.

[mikemeg]

15 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

Brake vans are about all you can get away with like that: all the rest of the stock was divided between the LMS and LNER in 1929 and repainted/renumbered into their wagon stock.  I run a CL van on Grantham and that's an anachronism in the 1935-38 period.

 

Jonathan,

 

Thanks for the posting re the CL brake vans. The only photo I've seen, of one of these CL brake vans, is a black and white photo in Peter Tatlow's book on LNER wagons.  Would you happen to know what colour and shade these vans were painted in?

 

As the Toad D wasn't introduced until 1929, then that does beg the question as to when the CL unfitted vans were built?

 

So, some time around nationalisation, a relic of the Cheshire Lines Committee was located which had, mysteriously, escaped the repainting and incorporation into LMS/LNER stock and thus retained its livery, though much discoloured and weatherworn!!

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

Edited May 9 by mikemeg

[jwealleans]

Morning Mike,

 

For once, Wikipedia is your friend here: I think this is pretty much correct:

 

...the CLC had its own fleet of wagons, which were painted a pale lead grey for the bodywork, with black running gear and white lettering .... In 1929, it was decided that all CLC wagons, other than brake vans and service stock, should be shared between the LMS, which would receive one-third of the wagon fleet, and the LNER, which would receive two-thirds. The transfers took place at the start of 1930, ... The LNER supplied the CLC with some new brake vans, and these were painted in CLC livery, and lettered "CL".

 

I think Peter Tatlow does show the batch built for the CLC in his build table for the Toad Ds.   I'm at work so I don't have the book to hand.   I'm sure someone will furnish the details.

 

 

[Jon4470]

Tatlow vol 4B shows a batch of 6 Toad D built for the CLC in 1935/6. The running numbers were 4471 to 4476. There is also a photo of 4471.
 

These six vans were built unfitted.

[jwealleans]

Brilliant.   So one of them was 4472.   That's now going to be the next one I build... we already have loco 4472 and carriage 4472 on Grantham (we have the carriage twice, but no-one's ever noticed).  Now we can have the wagon as well.

[mikemeg]

Many thanks to jwealleans and jon4470 for the information. I'll have to guess the colour - light lead grey - but, like Jonathan, the running number 4472 is hard to resist.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

[mikemeg]

LNER 20T BRAKE VAN 'TOAD D'

 

Before I move on with the description of these builds, I should, perhaps, clear up why I have some finished and some only part finished. I bought two of the Dapol kits, way back in 2012, which were rebuilt to the LNER 20 ton brake van and were completed. These were numbered from photos in Peter Tatlow's book and were :-

 

260922 with unglazed end doors and raised end platforms.

178705 with unglazed end doors and flat end platforms. This van was fitted with spoked wheels when photographed in July 1950

 

The second of these two models did lose its running boards, which now need to be replaced.

 

In 2015 I bought three more of the Dapol kits and commenced to rebuild these three :-

 

4472      with unglazed end doors and flat end platforms. This van was one of the CLC unfitted batch. 

278704 with glazed end doors and raised end platforms.

278706 with glazed end doors and raised end platforms.

 

Half way through the rebuild of these three, I started to test build etched kits and these three were 'temporarily' set aside. And they have remained 'temporarily' set aside since 2015, hidden away but not forgotten. Anyway, it was high time that they were completed so hence this set of entries in the thread.

 

I'm now making twelve more running boards to add to the four which belong to 178705. Note that the lower of the two running boards, on each side of the vehicle, has a gap in the upstand to fit over the axlebox. Each board is made from .015" plasticard (the running board itself) with an upstand of .010" plasticard.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited May 30 by mikemeg

[jwealleans]

Mike, if it's any help this is my interpretation of CLC light lead grey, which is probably a random light grey Humbrol tin picked from the drawer behind the workbench.

 

Edited May 10 by jwealleans

[mikemeg]

LNER 20T BRAKE VAN 'TOAD D'

 

Having now assembled the ends of the cabin and given this van a coat of  'lead grey', time to check the colour against the photo in the Peter Tatlow book - just did a black and white copy of the photo below using the photo editor - to effect this check. This van will be seriously weathered, once the markings have been added so it won't look like this for much longer.

 

The colour used was actually a mix of GWR freight grey and some white, to lighten it by a shade or two. As always, with Railmatch paints, I take off part of the oil as supplied, and substitute some thinners. This gives a much more matt effect and allows them to flow and cover far more easily.

 

The markings will be added, next, so that the handrails and running boards can be added as the final process.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited May 11 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER 20T BRAKE VAN 'TOAD D'

 

It's quite a time since I used my sheets of HMRS LNER Freight Markings, so would they still have any glue? These were methfix so, with a 5 : 1 mix of water : methylated spirits, I tried them. Yes indeed, they still had some glue.

 

So, especially for Jonathan, here's the Cheshire Lines Committee brake van marked up on one side with, perhaps, the most famous railway related number that there is. This took around an hour and a quarter to do, as every symbol, even including the decimal point in the tare weight on the solebar, is a separate transfer character.

 

Once I could do this just with my specs on; now I need to use a magnifying glass, especially on the 20 T legend but, hey, I can still do it! Each character of the markings is manoeuvred into place using the sharp end of a cocktail stick.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited May 12 by mikemeg

[Suffolk Dave]

Very nice, Mike, and thanks for sharing.

 

I wonder how far from CL metals these brake vans may have wondered..? 

[mikemeg]

52 minutes ago, Suffolk Dave said:

Very nice, Mike, and thanks for sharing.

 

I wonder how far from CL metals these brake vans may have wondered..? 

 

Dave,

 

I was wondering that too. I guess an unfitted freight from Northwich (Cheshire) to Hull New Inward Yard - which would probably have taken the best part of a day to cover the distance and involved one or more loco and guard changes - is a working which didn't nor ever could happen. Perhaps a 'running in' turn from York to Hull after a works visit to Shildon on its way back to the CLC.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

[65179]

17 hours ago, mikemeg said:

 

Dave,

 

I was wondering that too. I guess an unfitted freight from Northwich (Cheshire) to Hull New Inward Yard - which would probably have taken the best part of a day to cover the distance and involved one or more loco and guard changes - is a working which didn't nor ever could happen. Perhaps a 'running in' turn from York to Hull after a works visit to Shildon on its way back to the CLC.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

There's a well-known ca.1950 shot of a 6 wheel CLC brake van in use in Scotland. So there's no limit post-nationalisation. Prior to that the Committee kept reasonably close tabs on its brake vans and most would have been used internally on the system. Post-war the CLC was hiring in the parent companies' brake vans as required for 'internal use' i.e. on the CLC system and had been doing so for some time (the minutes of an Officers' meeting with CLC officials, together with those of the parent companies, in November 1945 records the pre-war cost of hiring in brake vans as .6d per mile).

 

Regards,

Simon

Edited May 13 by 65179
Added information

[Chas Levin]

On 12/05/2024 at 07:50, mikemeg said:

LNER 20T BRAKE VAN 'TOAD D'

 

It's quite a time since I used my sheets of HMRS LNER Freight Markings, so would they still have any glue? These were methfix so, with a 5 : 1 mix of water : methylated spirits, I tried them. Yes indeed, they still had some glue.

 

So, especially for Jonathan, here's the Cheshire Lines Committee brake van marked up on one side with, perhaps, the most famous railway related number that there is. This took around an hour and a quarter to do, as every symbol, even including the decimal point in the tare weight on the solebar, is a separate transfer character.

 

Once I could do this just with my specs on; now I need to use a magnifying glass, especially on the 20 T legend but, hey, I can still do it! Each character of the markings is manoeuvred into place using the sharp end of a cocktail stick.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Thanks for posting the pic Mike, very smart looking!

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J24

 

Now set to join the J25 is this one, the LNER J24. This will be the next one to be painted after the J25. This model is not a test build of the North Eastern Kits J24, as this kit was developed and introduced before I began the test builds. So this one was built from a production version of the kit.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited May 17 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER 20T BRAKE VAN 'TOAD D'

 

One of the last jobs, on these brake vans, is the fitting of the handrails. The arrangement of the side handrails was in two parts, translated in 4mm scale to 2.0 mm long and 11.5 mm long. The transverse handrails, either side of the ducket are 3.25 mm long. All of the handrails on these vans are made from 0.3 mm brass wire, bent up against a ruler to achieve the correct length. Each rail stands around 1.0 mm off the van body.

 

The very distinctive lamps, attached to the top of the body, were made by reworking the lamp mouldings in the kit and then fitting a piece of 1.6 mm tubing through the lamp body to represent the lens on both sides of the lamp.

 

As the holes to accept the handrails are only .4 mm diameter, then the handrails must be cut very accurately to fit. This is by far the most fiddly job on the entire model! The handrails are then painted by being masked off from the body by slices of paper slid under the rail and then withdrawn after painting. Of course, when this is weathered, some of the colour definition will be lost as rust, grime and soot take their toll. Though I am sorely tempted to leave this one in near ex-works condition, perhaps with a light coating of soot on the roof.

 

I can't help but think that these wooden brake vans were akin to garden sheds (though very well made garden sheds) mounted on long wheelbase wagon chassis' and capable of travelling up to 70 mph!! Like most things, made for or by the railways during pre and post grouping times, they just looked right!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited May 16 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

On another thread, in a different topic section, I covered the building of my 'test track' which, eventually, became a model of a real place; the place where I and my youthful colleagues first discovered the magic which was the railway of the late 1950's. The place was Hessle Haven on the main line out of Hull to Selby and Doncaster and thus to points south, west and north of Hull.

 

So this photo, of a J71, an LNER brake van and the shipyard bridge, over the railway, serves as a reminder of those many days spent watching the seemingly never ending procession of trains passing through this place.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited May 18 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER 20T BRAKE VAN 'TOAD D'

 

With just a few handrails to be added then the last job will be the running boards on the four models which don't yet have them. All of these vans, as with almost all of my plastic kit wagons, have been weighted by adding some pieces of sheet lead under the body between the solebars just to give them a little more stability, especially when being pushed rather than pulled. So with two ex LMS brake vans and these five ex LNER vans, then those should give a varied representation of the 'back end' of freight trains circa 1950.

 

The last van to be lettered and numbered has now been done, using the initial British Railways numbering scheme. These characters, which have to be applied individually, are even smaller than the LNER numbering - 3 inch for the running number (1.0 mm), 2 inch for the weight (0.66 mm) - and did take quite a time to do; though this time without using the magnifying glass! By the time I got to painting this one, I'd become tired of weathering wagons to represent the 'down at heal' state of the late forties/early fifties, so this one has only just come back from its British Railways repaint!!

 

So, once this lot are done then I can get back to the locomotives though looking at my coaching stock, that's also a little meagre, so I can see 'a batch of Gresleys' being produced in the not too distant future. The railway fencing on the incline to the far side of the bridge is also in need of repair; so that will be done ere long!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

Edited May 31 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER 20T BRAKE VAN 'TOAD D'

 

After a bout of loco painting (J24 and J25) and some rebuilding of a garden wall, then time to return to the five LNER brake vans. The last things to be done are the running boards either side of the underframe; each of which consists of two parallel boards, around 6mm apart and fixed to the solebars by brackets which attach to both boards.

 

To achieve the necessary parallel configuration and the correct spacing of the brackets I decided to adopt the same principle as I used for building the lattice signal gantries and bridges - make and use a jig. So out came the cardboard and a marking pen and a jig was developed to assemble these running boards. The photo below isn't the best resolution but, hopefully, illustrates the principle. The vertical markings are the locations of the brackets attaching the two boards together and to the solebars.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited June 11 by mikemeg

[Suffolk Dave]

Mike, that's a neat idea to build a jig but as I'm no engineer can I ask the proverbial stupid question? In your photo are we looking at the rear of the running boards - the face that's attached to the sole bars? Also, are the slots in the upper board to give clearance for the axle boxes? 

 

Dave 

[mikemeg]

3 hours ago, Suffolk Dave said:

Mike, that's a neat idea to build a jig but as I'm no engineer can I ask the proverbial stupid question? In your photo are we looking at the rear of the running boards - the face that's attached to the sole bars? Also, are the slots in the upper board to give clearance for the axle boxes? 

 

Dave 

 

Dave,

 

Yes, in the photo we are looking at the rear of the running boards, where the upstand (approx. 1.25 mm) shows and that is the face which attaches to the solebars. This is where the brackets are attached, though I will post another photo to show the completed assembly within the jig. And yes, the slots in the upstand on the upper board and lower board give clearance for the axle boxes.

 

The photo, above, has been changed to show the jig now accommodating two sets of running boards; one set for each side of the van.

 

Two out of two correct; do you want to go for the bonus point to qualify for the raffle. Only joking; thanks for the interest, much appreciated.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited June 11 by mikemeg

[Suffolk Dave]

Thanks for clarifying that for me.

 

If I have any further numpty questions I'll let you know! 

 

Dave