Evertrainz Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 What was the difference between the 3 types of Lowfit wagons seen in the 50's and 60's? One had 3 straps up the side, which were ex-LMS. The other was a rugged-looking steel body wagon with around 5 support beams up the side, and had a raised floor. The final was the same as the previous, but with 3 beams rather than 5. Some have "not to be loaded with container" on the side, yet I see many pictures of these doing just that. Any clarifications? I know these were used to transport military vehicles, tractors, and vehicles of all kinds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBill Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) Hi Evertrainz, There was just one batch of LMS-style (wooden body) Lowfits with LMS 8-shoe brakes, under diagram 1/001. All the other (steel) Lowfits were diagram 1/002, although there were slight differences to bodywork (number of strengthening struts on the sides) and different type of brakegear (LNER 8-shoe, BR 4-shoe, BR 8-shoe) for the various batches (details below). All had the same planked wooden floor, so I'm not sure what you mean by raised floor. As you say, typical loads were tractors, agricultural machinery and small military vehicles. It would be interesting to see pictures of them carrying containers, because they certainly weren't meant to, as they lacked the chains and shackles of a proper Conflat to secure the container. 2107 B 450000-450399 Lowfit (wooden) 1/001 Wolverton Works 1950 2194 B 450400-451399 Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1951 2340 B 451700-451899 Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1952 2420 B 451900-452199 Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1953 2461 B 452200-452399 Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1957 2467 B 452400-452599 Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1955 2729 B 452600-452899 Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1957 2998 B 452900-453449 Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1959 Thanks, Bill ps was the wagon with the rugged body maybe a Pig iron carrier? (edit to reformat Table and add ps) Edited June 21, 2015 by AberdeenBill 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Yes - the Bachmann RTR one has the wrong chassis - it should be the 8-shoe LMS mentioned above Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evertrainz Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) Hi Evertrainz, There was just one batch of LMS-style (wooden body) Lowfits with LMS 8-shoe brakes, under diagram 1/001. All the other (steel) Lowfits were diagram 1/002, although there were slight differences to bodywork (number of strengthening struts on the sides) and different type of brakegear (LNER 8-shoe, BR 4-shoe, BR 8-shoe) for the various batches (details below). All had the same planked wooden floor, so I'm not sure what you mean by raised floor. As you say, typical loads were tractors, agricultural machinery and small military vehicles. It would be interesting to see pictures of them carrying containers, because they certainly weren't meant to, as they lacked the chains and shackles of a proper Conflat to secure the container. 2107 B 450000-450399 Lowfit (wooden) 1/001 Wolverton Works 1950 2194 B 450400-451399 Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1951 2340 B 451700-451899 Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1952 2420 B 451900-452199 Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1953 2461 B 452200-452399 Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1957 2467 B 452400-452599 Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1955 2729 B 452600-452899 Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1957 2998 B 452900-453449 Lowfit 1/002 Shildon Works 1959 Thanks, Bill ps was the wagon with the rugged body maybe a Pig iron carrier? (edit to reformat Table and add ps) Thanks for the reply, the rugged wagon I was talking about was a 5-strut Lowfit. The pictures I saw were on Flickr a while ago, but I can't find them. They were in a rake of mixed flat and low-open wagons, with some with containers, some without. They looked to be held down with the same means as the road vehicles, with ropes (chains?) holding them down at the end. Would it have been possible to regularly spot a few of these with a loaded container in its bed? What about said unmarked Lowfits? Edited June 21, 2015 by Evertrainz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Get yourself a copy of Model Railway Constructor, February 1987. . Within it's pages there lurks a 'Datafile' article by Paul Bartlett & Trevor Mann. . It contains all you need to know about BR built 'Lowfits' . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Get yourself a copy of Model Railway Constructor, February 1987. . Within it's pages there lurks a 'Datafile' article by Paul Bartlett & Trevor Mann. . It contains all you need to know about BR built 'Lowfits' . Brian R AND http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brlowfit I would also like to see any photo of one carrying a container. The rule that this shouldn't happen does seem to have been abided to, whether the writing is clear or not. Medfits and highfits were allowed to carry containers. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium SM42 Posted June 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 21, 2015 Yes - the Bachmann RTR one has the wrong chassis - it should be the 8-shoe LMS mentioned above But such an easy coversion with bits from Parkside and others if it's anything like the old Mainline product. Even the underframe locating pips on the underside of the Mainline body gave perfect spacing for the new solebars for OO gauge Andy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) British Railway Modelling, November 1996 has an article entitled "Lowfit Lowdown" detailing the construction / bashing of various 4mm scale 'Lowfit' models. . Brian R Edited June 22, 2015 by br2975 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) The reason I was told that Lowfits were not to carry containers was that they could slide sideways and go out of gauge - there was no means of retaining them laterally. The LMS unfitted 1 plank flat was used for containers before 1948 and for a short time afterwards but also acquired the 'Not to be used for...' branding. I've done several conversions of the Bachmann LNER body to the correct underframe and brakes and it is, as has been said, very easy. Edited October 26, 2018 by jwealleans 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 AND http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brlowfit I would also like to see any photo of one carrying a container. The rule that this shouldn't happen does seem to have been abided to, whether the writing is clear or not. Medfits and highfits were allowed to carry containers. Paul I agree with Paul; I can't think I've ever seen a Lowfit loaded with a container, though I saw lots of Medfits and Highfits so loaded. The MoD were keen on the latter, as they didn't need to use chains, and the 'box' was secured from unwanted visitors. The nearest I've seen to a container on a Lowfit were the demountable tanks carried from Associated Octel at Hayle; the wagons were dedicated to this traffic, and had a wooden framework secured to the deck to locate the tanks. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evertrainz Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 That being cleared up, does anyone have diagrams for the 5-strut Lowfit (diag 1/002)? Also, it'd be helpful if someone could point to a concise and clear picture of the 8-shoe brakegear, especially in the area behind the wheels, where the lever (?) pulls in the outermost brakes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 That being cleared up, does anyone have diagrams for the 5-strut Lowfit (diag 1/002)? Also, it'd be helpful if someone could point to a concise and clear picture of the 8-shoe brakegear, especially in the area behind the wheels, where the lever (?) pulls in the outermost brakes. Are these clear enough? http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brlowfit/h180434c5#h180434c5 http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brlowfit/h180434c5#h151c5789 This form of brake was quite common on builds of BR wagons from the late 1950s onwards and could be found on conflats, various types of van, some shock vans and opens and doubtless other things. In 4mm scale, Rumney Models make a nice etch for this. It's a bit of a fiddle - inevitably, some of the parts are small - but makes up very nicely. http://www.rumneymodels.co.uk/12.html Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted June 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 25, 2015 If metalwork isn't your thing then Parkside also sell this underframe under the Red Panda brand: http://www.parksidedundas.co.uk/acatalog/RED_PANDA_RAILWAY_MODELS.html Not as fine as the Rumney version but can still produce a good model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 That being cleared up, does anyone have diagrams for the 5-strut Lowfit (diag 1/002)? Also, it'd be helpful if someone could point to a concise and clear picture of the 8-shoe brakegear, especially in the area behind the wheels, where the lever (?) pulls in the outermost brakes. The following pictures are from the instructions to my BR clasp brake chassis kit that Adam pointed you in the direction of. They should hopefully give you an idea of what was going on. I also did this drawing to illustrate the differences between various clasp braking systems which shows the layout of the BR clasp brake. Justin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evertrainz Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) I also did this drawing to illustrate the differences between various clasp braking systems which shows the layout of the BR clasp brake. Justin Good evening, Justin Thanks for those drawings. I understand the first two, but it seems BR overcomplicated things with the 3rd diagram. I can't seem to wrap my mind around how they work. I've always had trouble seeing how brake riggings work, so could you please explain the motion? Ron Edited June 25, 2015 by Evertrainz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted June 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 25, 2015 Good evening, Justin Thanks for those drawings. I understand the first two, but it seems BR overcomplicated things with the 3rd diagram. I can't seem to wrap my mind around how they work. I've always had trouble seeing how brake riggings work, so could you please explain the motion? Ron Well, your knee bones connected to your thigh bone, your thigh bones connected to your hip bone, etc etc etc. Happy to help. Mike. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Good evening, Justin Thanks for those drawings. I understand the first two, but it seems BR overcomplicated things with the 3rd diagram. I can't seem to wrap my mind around how they work. I've always had trouble seeing how brake riggings work, so could you please explain the motion? Ron Hi Ron, The drawing that I posted isn't the clearest. I was in a rush and that was the one to hand. This should be bigger and so easier to see where everything was pivoted. The hangers are in magenta. Some of these are also pivoted on the underframe. It was indeed more complicated than the LMS & Derby ones (and indeed the LNER AVB) but it did have some advantages. There was only one adjuster (all the others had two, one on each set of clasp brakes), the arrangement of the clasp brakes was the symetrical so they were the same at each end (unlike the Derby one) and they were also arranged so that you didn't have to take the brakegear apart to get the wheels out. There is certainly more 'stuff' under the wagon as a result plus the lifting link brake levers on top. The first hanger out from the centre of the wagon threw the direction of motion out to each end (a bit like the crank on the brakelever shaft on the LMS type) and was where the adjustment was provided, the next one out I think altered the amount of movement at that end so that the push/pull exerted at each end was the same then each set around the clasp brakes then contrived to change the direction of the push/pull and keep everything above the axles. If it helps the 2nd, 4th and 5th hangers (looking at the drawing from left to right) are pivoted on the underframe. I hop this makes some sense, it's been a long day! Justin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evertrainz Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) Hi Ron, The first hanger out from the centre of the wagon threw the direction of motion out to each end Justin Hello Justin, Thanks for that detailed extra diagram. The first confusion I had was solved as I hadn't seen the very small magenta hangar on the outermost ends. But, what still concerns me, is that the thin blue connection from the first hangar from the centre connects to the pivot/fulcrum of the first red lever. I know that when a lever is used, absolutely 0 force is exerted in any direction on the fulcrum pivot point, no matter what. Why did BR go about connecting these links to the fulcrum of the levers? EDIT: I've attached your drawing, with my perceived directions of movement in green. The orange circles denote where the thin blue connectors are attached to the fulcrum. Ron Edited June 26, 2015 by Evertrainz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 But, what still concerns me, is that the thin blue connection from the first hangar from the centre connects to the pivot/fulcrum of the first red lever. I know that when a lever is used, absolutely 0 force is exerted in any direction on the fulcrum pivot point, no matter what. Why did BR go about connecting these links to the fulcrum of the levers? EDIT: I've attached your drawing, with my perceived directions of movement in green. The orange circles denote where the thin blue connectors are attached to the fulcrum. Hi Ron, The key lies in the fact that the hangers are pivoted on the underframe and are not fixed. This means that the arrows that you've drawn and circled actually go the other way. This arrangement is exactly the same as the hangers on the LMS and Derby clasp brake chassis seen previously. Justin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evertrainz Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) Hi Ron, The key lies in the fact that the hangers are pivoted on the underframe and are not fixed. This means that the arrows that you've drawn and circled actually go the other way. BR clasp brake drawing 2.jpg This arrangement is exactly the same as the hangers on the LMS and Derby clasp brake chassis seen previously. Justin Hello, I hadn't seen the pivoting hangars, so wondered how any force would be exerted. Thanks for clearing that up, Justin. So, does anybody have drawings for this wagon? Ron Edited June 26, 2015 by Evertrainz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 So, does anybody have drawings for this wagon? Ron See 5 above Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Hello, I hadn't seen the pivoting hangars, so wondered how any force would be exerted. Thanks for clearing that up, Justin. So, does anybody have drawings for this wagon? Ron Or, to save you scrolling back up the page to post #5 . "...Get yourself a copy of Model Railway Constructor, February 1987. . Within it's pages there lurks a 'Datafile' article by Paul Bartlett & Trevor Mann. . It contains all you need to know about BR built 'Lowfits'......" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Came to this thread hoping for an easy way to model a complete Ford train of cars in EM gauge. Looking tougher than first thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 4 hours ago, Michael Delamar said: Came to this thread hoping for an easy way to model a complete Ford train of cars in EM gauge. Looking tougher than first thought. Simplify and add lightness! Last month I was feeling pleased with myself because I worked out a method of doing clasp brakes with rocking W-irons, now I see that was just the start! Thinking cap back on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 https://www.watercressline.co.uk/article.php/83/b453433-br-lowfit-wagon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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